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Thread: League of Legends Season 3 Theorycrafting Thread

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwergi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Raxxman View Post
    Black Cleaver kinda benefits high attack speed carries over burst casters, Timat definitely benefits attack speed auto attacks.
    Man, that's just wrong. Black Cleaver procs off any physical damage and doesn't have an internal cooldown. Tiamat has an active that causes AoE physical damage, while also splashing all your auto-attacks. It caps out at 30% armor reduction, so the question really is: how fast can you stack it on as many people as possible?

    Riven wins, hands down. Flash/E + W + Tiamat active + Q + Q = full stacks in less than 2 seconds on as many people as were in range with no chance to retaliate. Third Q knocks back their team, then your ult decimates the entire team because none of them have very much armor anymore, and you've got a Brutalizer to penetrate the rest of it.

    Then you get off another 1.0 ratio Tiamat active, and as many auto-attacks as you can that splash onto everyone (refreshing Black Cleaver stacks). Riven also stacks AD and will around mid-game have a shit-ton of it. Tiamat splashes your AD, which Riven has probably the most of in the game.

    Black Cleaver benefits fast auto-attackers after it's been stacked, but AD casters definitely stack it way faster than any AD carry can.
    I don't mean to sound rude, but I don't see how Riven will get stacks on more than one person. Her range is nothing, unless you're specifically counter picking a dunk comp, you'd have to be at a super low elo to see everyone bunch up where you could hit them.

    I don't get the OMG it's riven train. She's rarely picked in comp, she's not massively popular, and shes not got an amazing w/l ratio. She's certainly not bad but she's not world banning, her range is short.

    Yes, she's manaless which makes her easy to pick up, yes she scales great with AD which makes her easy to itemise. No she's not that good and will get beaten top lane by a decent counter pick, and yes her build is actually really expensive and requires a good lanning phase else she just fails.

    Black cleaver benefits people who have attack speed steroids. IE Yi and Fioria J4, same goes with timat.

    Casters still have the BF as an option and you'd have to weigh up the potential of timat vs bf. I'd also rather have van damms over black cleaver for ad casters

  2. #22

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    I harp on about Riven because I like Riven, warts and all.

    She has issues, but she's actually balanced - a rarity in these days of release versions of Jayce, Darius, Rengar, Zyra and Diana. That she has counters is proof of this, but it's also why she's rarely picked competitively. Every top laner that doesn't have a solid counter-pick is categorically overpowered, because it means they're not vulnerable to any specific type of kit, whether that be poke, kill or sustain, eg. Jayce. As for the super low Elo - I played Riven consistently at 1500 on both EUNE and EUW last season, and plan to play her again come season 3.

    People bunch up all the time - it's called grouping, and it happens in every teamfight around every major objective - turrets, baron, dragon, buffs. The only teamfights Riven doesn't hit multiple people in is the full-on derp-mode 1000 Elo mid-lane clusterfucks.

    Black Cleaver does benefit people who have attack speed steroids, but it also causes a Talon or Zed or Riven or Pantheon to reduce armor across the entire enemy team, making your AD carry hit even harder. Additionally, it builds out of Brutalizer and keeps the flat armor pen.

    Maths exercise: Black Cleaver (2570g) vs. Bloodthirster (3000g) on Talon (since you dislike Riven) at level 18. Combo is AA-Q-W-Q tick-R-R. E and passive are assumed, but just increase damage by 10% + 15%, so it's irrelevant.

    Damage with AD scaling is: 1.0 + (150 + 1.3) + (260 + 1.2) + (15 + 0.2) + (260 + 0.9) + (260 + 0.9).

    Total damage with maxed BT is: 100 + 280 + 380 + 35 + 350 + 350 = 1495
    Against 100 armor: 747.5

    Total raw damage with Black Cleaver is: 50 + 215 + 160 + 160 + 25 + 315 + 315 = 1240
    Against 100 armor (armor reduction in brackets, total armor after comma):
    (-7.5% -15, 77.5) = 29
    (-15% -15, 70) = 127
    (-22.5% -15, 62.5) = 98
    (-30% -15, 55) = 103 + 16 + 203 + 203

    Total: 779

    With less investment, you've done more damage with a Black Cleaver than you would have with a fully stacked BT - I could have added a Long Sword to equal the gold investment, but it wasn't necessary to demonstrate the principle. This applies even more after you get a Last Whisper because of how flat and % pen stack in season 3. You've also put a 30% armor debuff on the target for 6 seconds, even if they're not dead, as well as anyone nearby who got hit by your W or ult.

    Van Damm's is just plain worse for AD casters, but better for Olaf/Darius/Shyvana/Lee Sin/other bruisers. Black Cleaver is an incredible item, and is probably the most cost-efficient item for AD casters.

  3. #23
    Nobody_Holme's Avatar
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    So question:

    How is jax with tiamat's? I know BC will be bad on him compared to say talon, but that high aspd he gets in long fights...

    Diving the carry all day means I really don't like the idea of BC, but I'm really unsure on tiamat's. Opinions? (Also holy fuck new items on singed :O)

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody_Holme View Post
    So question:

    How is jax with tiamat's? I know BC will be bad on him compared to say talon, but that high aspd he gets in long fights...

    Diving the carry all day means I really don't like the idea of BC, but I'm really unsure on tiamat's. Opinions? (Also holy fuck new items on singed :O)
    I'm thinking no on Tiamat Jax. He really doesn't build much raw AD (full build is like 70 with TF and Gunblade), which is what Tiamat scales off. I feel like Statikk Shiv, Youmuu's Ghostblade or Sword of the Divine would probably be better? Also, Mercurial Scimitar is ridiculous on Jax - more AD, MR and a Cleanse. Definitely going to beat Hexdrinker.

  5. #25
    fuck entrox Donor Jason Marshall's Avatar
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    Nom nom. Ryze gets a buff. Happy AP is getting a build option against AP Bruiser types!

    "Sometimes someone just needs to be the OP" -Tellenta Philosopher of our People.

  6. #26
    Grarr Dexx's Avatar
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    Like Abyssal Scepter and Banshee's Veil?

  7. #27

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    Math

    Math is not going to help you in League...

    You have to be Asian in order to be good at League of Legends Cocausians doent stand a chance!

    Look at the world championships... Asians just rule

    Its unfair almost^^



    Genetics^^

  8. #28
    Movember 2012 Nicho Void's Avatar
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    As long as my dry cleaning is done, that's fine.

  9. #29
    Omega Supreme's Avatar
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    Holy fuck this thread existed?

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