russian planes appreciation thread

[Qui Shon]

generally speaking, training a pilot for a modern fighter jet costs about a third of the actual plane.

But that's not the full comparison. Operating cost for plane and personnel costs have to be accounted for in some manner. I'm sure there's been studies or accounting on it.

EDIT: And what elmicker said, although I guess at least some operating cost for training should be counted on the personnel cost page, and the decision of how much could have an influence on the balance.

[FourFiftyFour]

So you have the cost to build the plane VS the cost to train the pilot, the cost to train the mechanics, the cost to train the avionics elctricians, the cost of employee benefits for all those people including housing, the cost of perhaps paying for those people's educations the list goes on.

[Qui Shon]

So you have the cost to build the plane VS the cost to train the pilot, the cost to train the mechanics, the cost to train the avionics elctricians, the cost of employee benefits for all those people including housing, the cost of perhaps paying for those people's educations the list goes on.

Yes, but without numbers in some sort of study on it that doesn't really tell us anything.

[FourFiftyFour]

So you have the cost to build the plane VS the cost to train the pilot, the cost to train the mechanics, the cost to train the avionics elctricians, the cost of employee benefits for all those people including housing, the cost of perhaps paying for those people's educations the list goes on.

Yes, but without numbers in some sort of study on it that doesn't really tell us anything.

Very true. I'm just guestimating here but you can see why I'm thinking the human factor probably costs the most.

[Right Rudder]

Won't a lot of the cost of training a pilot be a function of a cost of the plane? After all if you're training someone to fly in a cessna 172, your costs for running the fucker aren't going to be particularly high, while an F-22 costs you $45,000 for every hour it is in the air, time that it wouldn't necessarily be flying if you weren't training. Clock up a few hundred hours training on a modern fighter and the costs are going to skyrocket.

Is that $45000 number listed anywhere, our C-130's cost $3000-5000 an hour depending on high vs low level fuel burn etc. Not calling is bullshit(I have zero knowledge of raptor ops) just curious about the source.

Last estimated cost I heard of a U.S. Air Force pilot training student going through UPT was 1.5-2 million, their actual major weapons training system is not factored into that number that's just the ~200 flying hour basic syllabus that all trainees go through then select their airframe.

[Liare]

thats 3000-5000$ of fuel, for four turboprops, versus two very high performing jet engines, i would not be surprised to see it costing more to run a Raptor.
now add maintenance on top (high performance jets are quite the hangar queens, the F-16 has 1.4 hours of maintenance done, for every hour in the air the stealth fighters are projected to exceed that) and so on.

[elmicker]

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=co...ance+hour+f-22

more links than one could shake a stick at.

[Qui Shon]

Actually come to think of it, if you include training costs for crew and ground personnel, then you should include development costs for the aircraft as well, which for F-22 is tens of billions.

There’s a third way to calculate the F-22′s burden on the taxpayer. “Lifecycle cost” adds up the price of fuel, spare parts and maintenance during the jet’s projected 40-year lifespan. The Government Accountability Office estimates it will cost $59 billion to fix and fly the F-22s until they retire. If you add unit cost and per-plane lifecycle cost, you get the total amount the United States spends to design, produce and operate a single Raptor: a whopping $678 million.

Dunno about 130U's though, not as easily accessible figures available.

[Rans]

It looks like a really cheap version of the first 5 lines the engineers of the Chinook drew on a paper towel in a local diner.

"Heres the vague shape guys, but its early days!"

"*russian*PERFECT!"

Poorly translated russian joke:

An american spy manages to convince a Russian scientist to sell the plans of Russia's newest fighter jet for a few millions. The americans start building it, few weeks later, they finish it and, surprise, it looks like a train.

They say they must've done something wrong and try it again: same result. They contact the scientist and accuse him of selling them fake plans, the scientist asks "Have you read the fine print on the back of the plans?"

The americans run to the plans and read: "Great, now you've got a train, grab a chisel and a hammer and shave it until you've got a fighter jet"

[GiDiYi]

This page is in a serious lack of rusty planes so far. Don't worry, Ima fix this:







The Trall. A horrible piece of junk with an awkardly short range, but it's all we got, so there's nothing to be done about it, except batphoning the US of A.

[Liare]

why not just buy hercs like the rest of the civilized world ?

[Joe Appleby]

No worries, we will have the A400M soon to augment it. Also you are forgetting the A310 MRTTs, which while not being tactical transports like the good old Transall still does a lot ferrying troops around. And strategic lift is done via chartered Antonovs anyway just like anyone else is doing.

[Liare]

eh ? we leapfrog the airforce Hercules everywhere up here.

weekly flights to Afghanistan and so forth, i hear them take off when the wind is coming in from the east.

[GiDiYi]

why not just buy hercs like the rest of the civilized world ?

Hah, this would be far too easy.

Instead we just dumped an absurd amount of money to develop our own herc, the A 400 M Atlas, which we might have in an operative state at some point in the next 10 years and I say "might" on purpose here.

Pics:

[Qwert]

Well to be fair, it did end up with more payload than the C130J

For comparison, in order of payload:

C-130J-30 Super Hercules (44,000 lb / 19,958 kg)



A400M Atlas (81,600 lb / 37,000 kg)



C-17 Globemaster III (170,900 lb / 77,519 kg)



C-5M Super Galaxy (270,000 lb / 122,470 kg)

[Dogbeast]

Why be limited by fuel when you can install a nuclear reactor?

[SteeleResolve]

That plane just had the reactor on board for testing, it wasn't actually powering the a/c

[Jason Marshall]

It looks like a really cheap version of the first 5 lines the engineers of the Chinook drew on a paper towel in a local diner.

"Heres the vague shape guys, but its early days!"

"*russian*PERFECT!"

Poorly translated russian joke:

An american spy manages to convince a Russian scientist to sell the plans of Russia's newest fighter jet for a few millions. The americans start building it, few weeks later, they finish it and, surprise, it looks like a train.

They say they must've done something wrong and try it again: same result. They contact the scientist and accuse him of selling them fake plans, the scientist asks "Have you read the fine print on the back of the plans?"

The americans run to the plans and read: "Great, now you've got a train, grab a chisel and a hammer and shave it until you've got a fighter jet"

Some of Rolls Royces early jet engine specs were lost to the russians over a game of billiards.

[Skidrowpunk]

Fuck yeah C-5's. So glad I grew up around them, such monstrously awesome planes.

[Muffinsrevenger]

Fuck yeah C-5's. So glad I grew up around them, such monstrously awesome planes.

The forest camouflage on them is neat, but they may as well just paint whole trees on the sides and pretend to be a forest