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Thread: russian planes appreciation thread

  1. #13341
    SAI Peregrinus's Avatar
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    The main difference between fighter and airliner/bomber turbofans is the bypass ratio. It's much lower for fighters. They also tend to have afterburners. Both these things make them louder. And as they're not required to be designed to be quiet (not operating out of civilian airports near residential areas) they're often quite loud. But the overall structure of operation (gas-turbine engine drives a ducted fan) is the same.

  2. #13342
    Paradox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post

    All modern fighters have turbofan engines
    Do they?

    https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-m...s-in-airliners
    Yes. turboreactor might be the Slovenian word for turbojet but no manned aircraft produced since the early 1970's has had one.

    Turbofans are far far more efficient and powerful.


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  3. #13343
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    no manned aircraft produced since the early 1970's has had one.
    sup doc


  4. #13344
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    Su-25 is from 1975, that's almost early '70's

    And was designed to be cheap and nasty even by the standards of the soviets


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  5. #13345
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    >cheap
    >titanium armor
    cool stories mate

    Turbojets are used for their ruggedness and relative ease of maintenance.


    this is now the Frogfoot appreciation thread





    Last edited by RazoR; March 20 2017 at 10:23:36 PM.

  6. #13346
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    Titanium has always been cheap in the soviet union. That's why the Americans set up nested companies to trick the Russians into selling it for the SR-71.


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  7. #13347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    And even here in Germany hearing fighter jets is rare. Which has a lot to do with a low level flying ban (thanks Ramstein) and most bases being far from cities.
    Ah, damn those 60 years of (mostly) peace... Used to be different though - before the reunification we had a canadian and a french german airbase around. During the 1980s low altitude flight down to 500 feet was allowed everywhere, so we got a lot of that, even close to cities.
    Last edited by Ab Tallen; March 20 2017 at 10:31:36 PM.

  8. #13348
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Titanium has always been cheap in the soviet union. That's why the Americans set up nested companies to trick the Russians into selling it for the SR-71.
    >trick
    or maybe soviets were amused by the idea of an unarmed spy plane and wanted to see if it's viable after U2 shat the bed

    iirc boeing was legit buying titanium in 80s
    Last edited by RazoR; March 20 2017 at 10:28:00 PM.

  9. #13349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Tallen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    And even here in Germany hearing fighter jets is rare. Which has a lot to do with a low level flying ban (thanks Ramstein) and most bases being far from cities.
    Ah, damn those 60 years of (mostly) peace... Used to be different though - before the german reunification we had a canadian and a french airbase around. During the 1980s low altitude flight down to 500 feet was allowed everywhere, so we got a lot of that, even close to cities.
    This is interesting because in the UK you hear and see typhoons and tornados all the time

    I expect it's less because of the altitude limit and more because Germany has limited numbers of operational planes and bigger land area


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  10. #13350
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    we are talking about germany here


  11. #13351
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    Why am I always wrong?

    e: actually I was right. They are louder


  12. #13352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Why am I always wrong?

    e: actually I was right. They are louder
    Yeah they are louder


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  13. #13353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Tallen View Post
    Ah, damn those 60 years of (mostly) peace... Used to be different though - before the german reunification we had a canadian and a french airbase around. During the 1980s low altitude flight down to 500 feet was allowed everywhere, so we got a lot of that, even close to cities.
    This is interesting because in the UK you hear and see typhoons and tornados all the time

    I expect it's less because of the altitude limit and more because Germany has limited numbers of operational planes and bigger land area
    Supposedly, there's ~120 Typhoons and ~80 Tornados, but most of the combat training is done in Canada and the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    During the 1960s and 1970s, a very large number of Luftwaffe jet crashes—the Luftwaffe suffered a 36 percent crash rate for F-84F Thunderstreaks and an almost 30 percent loss of F-104 Starfighters—created considerable public demand for moving Luftwaffe combat training centers away from Germany.

  14. #13354
    Mallet Head Donor 56k Lagman's Avatar
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    why did they crash so much

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
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  15. #13355
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Tallen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Tallen View Post
    Ah, damn those 60 years of (mostly) peace... Used to be different though - before the german reunification we had a canadian and a french airbase around. During the 1980s low altitude flight down to 500 feet was allowed everywhere, so we got a lot of that, even close to cities.
    This is interesting because in the UK you hear and see typhoons and tornados all the time

    I expect it's less because of the altitude limit and more because Germany has limited numbers of operational planes and bigger land area
    Supposedly, there's ~120 Typhoons and ~80 Tornados, but most of the combat training is done in Canada and the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    During the 1960s and 1970s, a very large number of Luftwaffe jet crashes—the Luftwaffe suffered a 36 percent crash rate for F-84F Thunderstreaks and an almost 30 percent loss of F-104 Starfighters—created considerable public demand for moving Luftwaffe combat training centers away from Germany.
    This. They don't get to fly around as much. Quite different for the East German air force, hence the air force base at the outskirts of my hometown. MiG-29 doing a low pass over my school? Hell yeah!
    nevar forget

  16. #13356
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 56k Lagman View Post
    why did they crash so much
    They used the Starfighter as a fighter bomber. Which it wasn't built to be but Lockheed sold it as such because we wanted a supersonic fighter bomber.

    This however also led to a two engine minimum for German fighter jets.

    Btw the loudest thing I've ever heard was at the ILA last year two Tornadoes going full afterburner on the runway some 200m away from me. With brakes engaged.
    nevar forget

  17. #13357
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    To be fair the Italians also used Starfighters as fighterbombers and they worked fine

    I wish I knew more about Italian cold war training doctrine because I have a feeling that they didn't fly them as much as the Germans since some of the F-104S' that made it to 2008 were original 1970's tail numbers.


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  18. #13358
    Mallet Head Donor 56k Lagman's Avatar
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    I saw the avro Vulcan two years in a row at the Bournemouth air show but my gfs parents house is inline from the nearest airfield to bournemouth beach. I believe last year the Vulcan was retired from airshows and her father had to work but would have loved to see it fly one last time. Well it only went and flew over the fucking house on the Sunday heading towards the airshow. He was chuffed, I love seeing old migs though they're always good fun

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
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  19. #13359
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    The vulcan was amazing yeah, I saw it a few times too.

    I tried to go to its last public flight but couldn't make it. Sad times.


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  20. #13360
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Just read up a bit.

    The Starfighter was not an all-weather attack craft. The Luftwaffe wanted it to be a all-weather fighter bomber, which it couldn't really do. It couldn't really carry the nukes it had to carry, nor could it handle the weather. Furthermore the Luftwaffe was merely four years old, maintenance was shoddy at best, training hadn't caught up yet. Between 1945 and 1960 there was no air force in Germany, none of the old pilots and ground crews worked with planes (civil aviation was also banned for a while). The acquisition was corrupt as fuck (Starfighter-Affäre) as usual for Lockheed (at the time), the plane wasn't really what Germany wanted at the time.

    The Italians used the Starfighter as an interceptor, in that role it worked fine.

    Oh wait, they used it like Germany and had a 38% loss rate. Higher than Germany's 31% loss rate.
    nevar forget

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