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Thread: Whatever happened to that dev blog about multiplayer incarna?

  1. #21
    Donor Nu11u5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Foiritain View Post
    As for dust, writing your own engine for the PS3 is quite a lot more work then for PC and given the strict regulations sony enforces on all PS3 games you're looking at 4-5 years of engine development before you can even start working on the actuall gameplay. Using an existing engine allows you to start on gameplay straight away.
    Not to mention the benefit of using a licensed engine that will have ports already written for all of your target platforms, plus tech updates down the road. By going with UE3, they got support for PS3, PC, Mac, and PS4 (we can also say 360 but :psyMS:), and I imagine moving to UE4 when it's ready will be a feasible task.
    Last edited by Nu11u5; August 31 2012 at 11:49:12 PM. Reason: forgot about Macs

  2. #22
    RoemySchneider's Avatar
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    but ccp are manly, icelandic coders that do not rely on anyone and can do it all themselves!

  3. #23
    Donor Nu11u5's Avatar
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    Team Avatar posted the long-lost DevBlog on the forums today. Nothing new details wise but a little better look into what they did and why it's been pushed aside for now.

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default...42#post2023442
    Quote Originally Posted by CCP Bayesian
    Back at the end of February CCP t0rfifrans announced Team Avatar and that one of our priorities was prototyping, specifically to:

    "...create playable gameplay prototypes of gameplay features and try them out within the team, and within the company... The purpose of all this prototyping is to make sure we provide a strong vision for avatar gameplay, have a good demonstrable idea of why it is engaging and better understand the technology we will need to create in order to make it a reality."

    The prototype itself has been finished and has been presented internally to the company stakeholders, the CSM and finally to the company as a whole. The feedback from that was overwhelmingly positive. So on to the information!

    Extra-Vehicular Activity, Wrecks and Exploration

    There has been an idea kicking around CCP for a long time now about an ideal starting point for avatar gameplay. That is exploring hazardous environments in order to get awesome stuff. Think scanning down a site before entering it in order to find and salvage artifacts, technology and other goodies. Sounds straightforward and it would be but for the dangerous nature of delving into long lost places where time has taken its toll on the structure and the previous owners may not have left things in a benign state. In true EVE style throw in the added dangers of lurking competition and things have a chance to go south fast. The inspiration for this comes from a lot of different places, back to the original Aliens films, Event Horizon, the cleanup of Chernobyl, high-altitude mountaineering, games such as Space Hulk, Minecraft and Moonbase Alpha, to name just a few.

    Over three months we concentrated on the minute by minute gameplay of actually being inside a long abandoned structure, the hazards that it would contain and how the players might deal with them and any uninvited guests. We used the Unity engine which is a great game engine for prototyping in as it lets us create environments and gameplay very, very fast and iterate on it equally quickly. A lot of our art is much more abstract (a "grey box") than you’d see in a final game. This is due to us concentrating on the gameplay first and foremost whilst also recognizing that ambience plays an important role in how a game feels. We do throw in the occasional EVE asset here and there for flavor but those are not descriptive of any final theming or style.

    The gameplay premise is simple, players move through our abandoned structures with their fitted Extra-Vehicular Activity suit, using their wits, tools and teammates to deal with the hazardous environment. Some of us are enthusiastically and maliciously killing teammates for personal gain. We’ve even allowed two teams into the environment to really let all hell break loose.

    It’s a part of the EVE Universe

    There have been a lot of questions on the forums about how this integrates with EVE. Whilst this isn’t the core focus for us at the moment it is something we are thinking about long and hard. Like DUST514, this part of EVE should contribute to the overall economy as well as supporting its own ecosystem. Right now we’re thinking that these abandoned structures are so dangerous, radioactive and toxic, that they can only be entered with special suits. Obviously with access to clones you aren’t worried about radiation and long term health effects of hazardous lifestyles. You probably all smoke and eat lots of bacon as well and besides robots won’t survive the violent EM fields. Robot electronics would toast, thus only teams using gear that involves crude electronics, like found in EM resistant military hardware can go in and recover the technology that lies within.
    One example of a link with EVE gameplay we’re thinking of would be to put implant manufacture into the hands of players and making avatar gameplay part of the resource gathering chain it has. We want to make Avatar gameplay a viable and vibrant part of the Universe without forcing anyone that doesn’t want to use it from having to use it.

    A benefit from the EVA game is that a lot of the technology that would need to be developed to properly deliver the EVA experience would be directly useful in providing social areas and tools in stations.

    That just sounds like one idea...

    We decided to concentrate in depth on the one idea that has kept resurfacing from lots of different places within the company. We’ve had several others and collected a lot both internally and from the forums. One example would be a Station based espionage system. The beauty of the EVE Universe is that these ideas aren’t mutually exclusive for the most part. So whilst I think we are fairly sure of the initial gameplay direction there is lots of scope for expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by CCP Unifex
    It has been fantastic to see the Avatar team show everyone that there is meaningful gameplay using more than just your ship as your agent in the EVE Universe. The prototyping work they have done in Unity has allowed them to rapidly explore different themes and make a game which is challenging, fun and in the true spirit of EVE.

    At CCP we are now making sure that when great gameplay concepts such as these come along, we take time to assess what would be required to take them out of the concept phase, into our engine, through pre-production and into production. We must also consider how it interacts with everything else we are doing both within EVE and CCP as a whole. One of the great achievements of this piece of work is that it has really proved it is possible to rapidly iterate on new experiences without having to make a huge investment up front.

    Once this prototype was demoed and I had played it (being beaten by CCP Explorer and team in the process), then came the next part. Working out what would be needed to put this concept into the game for real. The team worked together to put a pre-production and production plan together using what they had learned over the previous months and also the lessons learned from the Incarna efforts from last year.

    The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, I’m looking at you).

    So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. It’s a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it won’t mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.
    Quote Originally Posted by CCP Bayesian
    This forum posted is an edited version of that devblog and sorry the video won't be coming out. We should be doing another roundtable at fanfest though.
    So don't expect to hear anything until after next Spring.


    Original video and thread: http://failheap-challenge.com/showth...otype-and-more

    Last edited by Nu11u5; October 9 2012 at 02:14:01 PM.

  4. #24
    Amantus's Avatar
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    i just want to walk around stations showing off my spaceclothes.
    fuck all fat nerds

  5. #25

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    In a sense, are they taking the term "flying in space" too literally? During the Incarna catastrophe, I never wanted a shift completely away from avatar content. I wanted a shift away from meaningless, non-gameplay, that was purely cosmetic and/or a microtransaction cash-grab. Their idea of a mission system for avatars, that has tangible rewards and gameplay, shouldn't be avoided because it's not "flying in space". I get that it's being shelved for now because it could take away from core EVE development, but I think, in some sense, this should be seen as core EVE development too since it would be actual gameplay.

    Also, what the hell is the Avatar Team working on for the next few expansions if it's not this? If they're not doing gameplay like this, is it back to meaningless social fluff and/or cosmetic items?
    Last edited by Zoidberg; October 9 2012 at 04:25:09 PM.

  6. #26
    Marlona Sky's Avatar
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    Bionic limbs coming to a station near you.

  7. #27
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    They will probably at least consider a partial port of dust code (given use of Unreal engine) surely?
    Last edited by Lallante; October 9 2012 at 04:58:10 PM.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    They will probably at least consider a partial port of dust code (given use of Unreal engine) surely?
    Is that technically possible? I'm not doubting you, I'm legitimately asking.

  9. #29
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    If they're going to add competitive avatar-based resource gathering tasks to the game (like getting the things needed for implants, as they suggested in the blog), you'd HAVE to have avatar-based PvP too, right? Every other resource-gathering task in the game can be subjected to in-space PvP in one form or another, so it would make sense. That alone is going to take a long time to implement and balance.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk Magnum View Post
    If they're going to add competitive avatar-based resource gathering tasks to the game (like getting the things needed for implants, as they suggested in the blog), you'd HAVE to have avatar-based PvP too, right? Every other resource-gathering task in the game can be subjected to in-space PvP in one form or another, so it would make sense. That alone is going to take a long time to implement and balance.
    Everything they've said indicates that PVP is a part of this. You can board a Sleeper station (or whatever) while it's being boarded by an enemy (or friend), and kill them for the loot.

  11. #31
    ry ry's Avatar
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    Ccp should make WIS f2p for a few months after a paid sub ends, but spaceships only on current subs.

    Tbh.

    M8s

  12. #32
    Donor Nu11u5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    They will probably at least consider a partial port of dust code (given use of Unreal engine) surely?
    Is that technically possible? I'm not doubting you, I'm legitimately asking.
    They already have the Incarna function of the Trinity Engine - there is no reason to add in a second engine. The gameplay won't be a gun game, either, but more of a puzzle/problem solving game it sounds like. (Maybe like Amnesia or Myst, but I don't know how good that could be with just random environments and little to no narrative. Being multiplayer could add another dynamic to the idea.)

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nu11u5 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    They will probably at least consider a partial port of dust code (given use of Unreal engine) surely?
    Is that technically possible? I'm not doubting you, I'm legitimately asking.
    They already have the Incarna function of the Trinity Engine - there is no reason to add in a second engine. The gameplay won't be a gun game, either, but more of a puzzle/problem solving game it sounds like. (Maybe like Amnesia or Myst, but I don't know how good that could be with just random environments and little to no narrative. Being multiplayer could add another dynamic to the idea.)
    It has to have some weapons for PVP and intereacting with station defenses.

  14. #34
    Donor Nu11u5's Avatar
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    Did they ever mention weapons? They did talk about the idea of trapping people behind locked doors and spacing them and things of that nature.

    Only in video games do people deal with security systems by shooting it Use some imagination.
    Last edited by Nu11u5; October 9 2012 at 07:05:06 PM.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nu11u5 View Post
    Did they ever mention weapons? They did talk about the idea of trapping people behind locked doors and spacing them and things of that nature.

    Only in video games do people deal with security systems by shooting it Use some imagination.
    It doesn't have to be all shooting. It could easily be puzzles and shooting security robots, Sleeper abominations, other players, etc. And I'm pretty sure they've mentioned weapons at some point, but now I don't remember where. I don't think I made that up, at least.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nu11u5 View Post
    Did they ever mention weapons? They did talk about the idea of trapping people behind locked doors and spacing them and things of that nature.

    Only in video games do people deal with security systems by shooting it Use some imagination.
    I actually really like the idea of kind of a competitive hacking game, where 2+ players start on opposing ends of a sleeper station, with some resource of goodie at the center. Players have to solve puzzles to unlock various routes to the resource in question, but they have to get there first. But players can also focus effort on screwing over their competition. Things like re-locking the doors they thought were open, leading them into dead-ends or side tracks, or even reactivating security protocols to put your opponent down one clone.

    Does not require an ounce of typical FPS gameplay and avoids all of the pitfalls of trying to shoehorn it into the Incarna engine.

    Status of Babby: 100% Formed

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Foiritain View Post
    Bars, corp offices, strip clubs, etc are all useful alternatives to ship spinning and would serve as a foundation for more functionality down the line.
    What kind of functionality specifically? The only thing I can see it being useful for is "hurr durr vitrual beer lololololol", before falling back into the role of "really expensive alternative to ship spinning" that no one bothers to use anymore.

    Even chess boards or similar minigames don't make any sense. Why leave your capsule to play with physical pieces when you could use virtual ones?

  18. #38
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    They will probably at least consider a partial port of dust code (given use of Unreal engine) surely?
    Is that technically possible? I'm not doubting you, I'm legitimately asking.
    The UT3 engine was originally written for the PC. So... yes?

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoidberg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    They will probably at least consider a partial port of dust code (given use of Unreal engine) surely?
    Is that technically possible? I'm not doubting you, I'm legitimately asking.
    The UT3 engine was originally written for the PC. So... yes?
    I meant, is it possible to have one game switch engines. Is it possible to switch from EVE's engine to Unreal in the same program instance?

  20. #40
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Oh I see... yeah probably not. At least, not smoothly.

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