Psst, faction CRs are cheap because unlike faction CPRs they don't increase cap regen, only use less CPU
Psst, faction CRs are cheap because unlike faction CPRs they don't increase cap regen, only use less CPU
Psst, you're wrong. T2/Best named are 24% cap recharge time reduction, 11% shield boost penalty. Faction are 25%/10% Check your facts before trying to look smart, kay?Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize
Psst, faction CRs are cheap because unlike faction CPRs they don't increase cap regen, only use less CPU
-O
I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those Thukkers, that way I wouldn't have to have any goddamn stupid useless conversations with anybody.
Read again. Use cheap CRs for more CPU.
Ah, I see. You're trying to be snide and point out that faction cap rechargers would solve the CPU problem. Only you didn't bother to do the math and figure out that they wouldn't. There's zero reason to spend on faction shit unless it actually improves the fit somehow, and faction CRs don't. Nice try, learn to use basic tools like EFT.
If you actually wanted to point out where I fucked up, you might have pointed out where I used DB PDUs instead of CN PDUs. But I guess that would take brains, eh?
-O
Last edited by Ophichius; August 16 2012 at 10:38:53 PM.
I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those Thukkers, that way I wouldn't have to have any goddamn stupid useless conversations with anybody.
ITT Ophichius does it wrong. The Archon is stable running two RRs or it's local tank. The third RR is for oh shit, not regular use. This is why WHers pimp two RRs then the x-fer. The first thing to realize is that the Chimera has a hard time fitting three RRs(which you rightfully pointed out). Since the third isn't needed, don't fit it. I much prefer an SBA over plugging minor resist holes, as you get a better overall tank. A proper Triage Chimera is still just as powerful as eight Basis.Hardly. 3x RR + 1x xfer triage archon is 59% stable running just local tank, and 51% stable running just two RRs, and tanks 12k DPS with 80k max cap. You can't do anything close to that in a Chimera. Hell, just getting the local tank stable takes an act of god. And the hull is so CPU-gimped that it needs a coproc to run a 3x RR fit, which means you're losing a low which could be going to a PDU, CPR, or CFC. (Depending on which particular brand of gimp-your-fit you're using.)out of curiousity, say one were to be attempting to run a rokh fleet or something similar. Is the chim still retarded then? If so, why?
A quick look at fitting (granted I don't fly the ships myself so might be a bit off-base) makes it seem like it's about as effective as a triage archon, assuming you're refitting to tank when needed.
Spoiler:
As you can see, basically every variant of the triage chimera is shit and fail compared to the Archon. At the very least, it needs enough CPU to fit a third RR without gimping itself with fitting mods. Will a pair of them work for triage? Yes. Are they good at it? Not at all.
-O
Spoiler:
Stable at 41% running both RRs, 10k DPS tank stable at 56%. Run one RR and your local, 5m 25s, enough time to get out of triage. Either you're primary, or someone else is, so you're generally stable. It's not quite the Archon, but it's still damned good, and very worth it if you're flying a Rohk fleet.
Pimped, the Chimera and the Archon look very similiar.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
There's your three reps, stable at 51 running two RRs, 4m 25s running all three to the Archon's 6m 47s. 18k(24kOH) DPS local tank is stable at 62%, better than the Archon's 16k(21kOH) DPS tank stable at 59%.
They end up costing about the same(Chimera is about 300m more, but you're talking about a 6b isk ship so 300m is nothing) since m2 armor reps are a bit more than m2 shield, but the A type invulns are more than A type ENAMs.
The biggest disadvantage to the Chimera locally is that it uses the one local rep. You can't turn one off and overload the other while you repair a damaged repper. It's also a bit more susceptible to neuts due to the less overall cap, but by comparison, the only thing that comes close to it's cap is the Thanny, which requires either lolcapboosters to be stable running to RRs, or T2 rigs. The Nid is a bit better with more powerful reps, but it's still not cap stable without T2 rigs or lolcapboosters.
Calm down Ophi.
As you insist on plugging your EM hole, why not:
[Chimera, triage slightly shiny]
Spoiler:
[Chimera, triage slightly shiny t2 triage]
Spoiler:
The 4 CPU diff between EM and invuln hardeners is what a faction CR gives you.
A full meta capital modules fit can be done for 2 bil with 0.75 cpu spare without fitting modules or implants, and a pith b-type shield boost amp. Decent invulns would make it nearer 3 bil but they also free cpu and give >25% more tank, it's just the T2 triage that makes things worse fitting-wise as you directly upgrade before officer items afaik.
Your Alternate fit doesn't seem to.
Not that this is a fittings thread
Didn't think you could overheat a 1 module in a rack while repairing another. Unless you mean refitting it with a spare?
Last edited by Daneel Trevize; August 16 2012 at 11:16:49 PM.
I haven't tried, but I was lead to believe you could, as long as the mod itself is off.Didn't think you could overheat a 1 module in a rack while repairing another. Unless you mean refitting it with a spare?
Doesn't even seem to care about racks. Any heat, can't repair. Any repair, can't heat.23:55:43 Notify You can not repair module while one or more modules on your ship are overloaded
I stand corrected. Well you can at least run a rep and hope it's enough.
Thank you for supporting my point. The Archon can easily fit an ohshit third rep and has the cap to power it for almost a full cycle if need be. The Chimera in a 2x rep configuration can at best match the average performance of the Archon. The Chimera is -still- not equivalent to an Archon.
The 2x RR fit you posted is definitely better than mine on the cap stability front, but geared towards solo triage. My 2x RR setup was focused around EHP/res due to the relatively shitty performance of the hull with only 2 RRs it was necessary in a two carrier setup to squeeze out better cross-repping performance. SBAs are better for solo triage, worse for multiple triage.
As for the pimp fits, why would you do that outside of WHs? A triage ship in K-space is functionally a disposable hull. Anything over a few hundred mil in pimp is wasted on it, as they're far too easy to blap with supers/dreadblobs.
-O
I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those Thukkers, that way I wouldn't have to have any goddamn stupid useless conversations with anybody.
i'm sure you can find a niche role in which it would be good, but the problem and the reason why it is bad is that there aren't many of those rolesout of curiousity, say one were to be attempting to run a rokh fleet or something similar. Is the chim still retarded then? If so, why?
A quick look at fitting (granted I don't fly the ships myself so might be a bit off-base) makes it seem like it's about as effective as a triage archon, assuming you're refitting to tank when needed.
fuck all fat nerds
Seriously dude? Go back and read what I said, I never said the Chimera was superior to the Archon, but it's a damn good triage carrier if you need shield. I'll take a Chimera over a Thanny or a Nid for shield.
Not surviving being called primary is also bad for using multiple triage carriers. Call it a personal choice, I like SBAs better. The fact you're so stuck on the 3x RR is your problem. You're gimping your fits for no reason. Your 2x RR fleet is also using a DC, which is worth using for nearly every ship in the game, except the Chimera. Your resist gains are limited at best, and aren't worth the slot. The gain to structure is important for EHP, but EHP on a triage carrier is pretty much pointless. Having resists in structure when you're the entire basis behind your fleet doesn't help, it just uses up one of your valuable lowslots.
I live in a wormhole...
You said it was equivalent to the Archon. Which is incorrect. I'll grant that it's a passable shield triage, but shield means very limited fleet comps.
Shield EHP gains seemed pretty worthwhile to me, your fit has ~550k shield EHP, to my fit's 756k shield EHP. ~35% more shield buffer is not insubstantial. I fully understand the value of slots on carriers, and one of my primary complaints about the Chimera is that it's so heavily gimped that you can't actually put all your slots to meaningful use.Not surviving being called primary is also bad for using multiple triage carriers. Call it a personal choice, I like SBAs better. The fact you're so stuck on the 3x RR is your problem. You're gimping your fits for no reason. Your 2x RR fleet is also using a DC, which is worth using for nearly every ship in the game, except the Chimera. Your resist gains are limited at best, and aren't worth the slot. The gain to structure is important for EHP, but EHP on a triage carrier is pretty much pointless. Having resists in structure when you're the entire basis behind your fleet doesn't help, it just uses up one of your valuable lowslots.
I'm sorry, I don't keep track of the exact location of every failheap poster. Given the initial carrier discussion was -not- about WH use, and that you never explicitly mentioned that you were talking about WH-specific fits, I think the question was a fair one. Saying "This ship is equivalent to this other ship in this particular fitting -which is only applicable in a limited environment-." is a bit disingenuous, no?
I live in a wormhole...
-O
I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those Thukkers, that way I wouldn't have to have any goddamn stupid useless conversations with anybody.
I see how you got this impression, but it's not what I meant. My fault. Let me rephrase to clarify, "in the world of triage carriers, the Chimera is the shield variant of the Archon, and is the best option of shield carriers for triage." Better?
Consider it a difference of opinion then, my fit has more cap stability and local tank, which I find to be vastly more important. Yours has more buffer, which is apparently more important to you.
I don't expect you to keep track of where I live. I do however, expect you to read. I told you I was pimping the fits. I said, these are pimped variants, so why exactly are you complaining I pimped them?
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