[devpost] exploration frigate rebalancing

[Sponk]

Hello again spacefriends! Today I'm going to share with you our current plans for the tech one probing frigates, coming this winter.

These ships are currently used for Cyno lighting more than anything else, and we want to build their role as frigates for exploring deep space (especially to provide more interesting exploration gameplay for new players). We hope to see them being used for solo highsec exploration for newer players, or to support the combat ships in an exploration group in wormholes or lawless space. They're getting bonuses to hacking, archeology and salvaging so you can use them to both probe and run mini-profession sites.
Their combat ability has also been directed at drones instead of weak weapon bonuses. We've designed them to be able to kill the rats in highsec mini-profession sites, although a combat frig will clear them faster. The ship isn't directly intended for a pvp role, so the ehp remains quite low and we skewed the fittings towards CPU and away from PG. Best way to kill the rats with this ship is fit a light active tank, drop drones and kite.

We wanted these ships to feel like an expedition vessel for newer players, something that can run sites independently and with enough cargo, no ammo use and extra dronespace to take long journeys away from their home base (even if they stay in highsec). If the style of ship is embraced then these could possibly serve as stepping stones into some kind of tech two "Science vessel" in the future.

Here's our current versions of the ships:

Magnate:
Frigate skill bonuses:
5% increase to scan strength of probes
5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time
Role Bonus:
50% bonus to Codebreaker and Analyzer range

Slot layout: 3 H (+1), 3 M (+2), 3 L, 2 turrets, 2 launchers (+2)
Fittings: 25 PWG (+3), 220 CPU (+10)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 250(+90) / 350(-36) / 220(-22)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 325 (+168.75)/ 180s (+62.8s)/ 1.8056 (+0.47)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 350 (+54) / 3.8 (-0.32) / 1072000 / 3.81s (-0.32s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(+5) / 40(+30)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 34km / 445 / 4
Sensor strength: 10 Radar
Signature radius: 39 (-4)
Cargo capacity: 400 (+243.75)


Heron:
Frigate skill bonuses:
5% increase to scan strength of probes
5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time
Role Bonus:
50% bonus to Codebreaker and Analyzer range
Slot layout: 3 H (+1), 4 M (+1), 2 L (+1), 2 turrets (+1), 2 launchers
Fittings: 23 PWG (+3), 250 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400(+126) / 200(-58) / 210(-16)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 245 (+88.75)/ 135s (+17.8s)/ 1.814 (+0.48)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340 (+20) / 3.57 (+0.04) / 1150000 / 3.84s (+0.04s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(+10) / 35(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37.5km / 430 / 4
Sensor strength: 12 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 40 (-8)
Cargo capacity: 400 (+243.75)


Imicus:
Frigate skill bonuses:
5% increase to scan strength of probes
5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time
Role Bonus:
50% bonus to Codebreaker and Analyzer range
Slot layout: 2 H, 4 M (+2), 3 L (+1), 1 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 20 PWG, 240 CPU (+10)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 275(+50) / 325(-19) / 230(-59)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 270 (+113.75)/ 135s (+32.8s)/ 1.8 (+0.47)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 330 (+52) / 4.15 (-0.04) / 997000 / 3.87s (+0.04s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(+5) / 40(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 35km / 450 / 4
Sensor strength: 11 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 41 (-4)
Cargo capacity: 400 (+80)


Probe:
Frigate skill bonuses:
5% increase to scan strength of probes
5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time
Role Bonus:
50% bonus to Codebreaker and Analyzer range
Slot layout: 3 H (+1), 3 M (+1), 3 L (+1), 2 turrets, 2 launchers (+2)
Fittings: 24 PWG (+4), 230 CPU (+10)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300(+105) / 300(+26) / 200(-74)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 235 (+78.75)/ 130s (+12.8s)/ 1.8 (+0.47)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 360 (+26) / 3.58 / 1123000 / 3.76s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(+5) / 35(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 32.5km / 465 / 4
Sensor strength: 9 Ladar
Signature radius: 38 (-3)
Cargo capacity: 400 (+80)

Let us know what you think!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default...osts&m=1789412

[prometheus]

They forgot to add an ECM bonus to the Heron

[Joshua Foiritain]

Cyno cycle time and fuel use bonus instead plox.

[Verite Rendition]

Cyno cycle time and fuel use bonus instead plox.

Harsh, but accurate. A T1 frig with the Force Recon's cyno bonus would be extremely useful. But then so would an "I win" button.

[Marlona Sky]

Cyno cycle time and fuel use bonus instead plox.

I detest how cheap throw away frigates allow capital ships to pour across the galaxy with no investment into the cyno ship.

[the_phage]

Cyno cycle time and fuel use bonus instead plox.

I'd settle with just an ozone consumption bonus. Leave cyno duration to T2.

As for the other bonuses, the Analyzer/Codebreaker range bonus seems kinda useless to me. Don't you generally want to be right on top of the can you're hacking anyway, and if you take to long to access it after hacking it, you need to re-hack it?

[Sponk]

I detest how cheap throw away frigates allow capital ships to pour across the galaxy with no investment into the cyno ship.

I don't like to advertise it, but noobships now have enough grid to fit a cyno. Depending on skills you might need some cargoholds to fit enough ozone tho.

[Tyrus Tenebros]

Cyno cycle time and fuel use bonus instead plox.

[Alain Colcer]

It's sad really

If you have t2 frigs dedicated to probing, then the regular t1 probing frig has an overlapping role.....
If they expand the role of the t1 frigs to be exploration-oriented they cannot run the sites alone....most rats would pop the ship in a few shots....

Personally i would prefer if t2 probing frigs are "combat" oriented (ie find ships) while t1 probing frigs are "signature" oriented(ie find sites and wormholes)....

The hacking, analyzer or salvager cycle time/range does not provide anything really...

IF CCP wishes to really add an "exploration-centric" ship it has to be a cruiser with enough tank and drones as offensive weapons.

[Daneel Trevize]

Personally i would prefer if t2 probing frigs are "combat" oriented (ie find ships) while t1 probing frigs are "signature" oriented(ie find sites and wormholes)....

They kinda are what with only T2s having cov ops cloaks to stay safe moving combat grids to then be giving on-grid warps, or for appearing in tackle range of some soon-to-be-ganked-dude rather than being visible warping from the limits of dscan and/or the whole time they're moving to at a nearby celestial to work out an accurate position to try get you on with just 1 cycle of the probes being in close enough to also be seen coming.

[Sponk]

It's sad really

If you have t2 frigs dedicated to probing, then the regular t1 probing frig has an overlapping role.....
If they expand the role of the t1 frigs to be exploration-oriented they cannot run the sites alone....most rats would pop the ship in a few shots....

tbh t1 exploration frigates only need to handle highsec sites. 3 or 4 drones and a bit of kiting should be all they need.

[Nax]

As for the other bonuses, the Analyzer/Codebreaker range bonus seems kinda useless to me. Don't you generally want to be right on top of the can you're hacking anyway, and if you take to long to access it after hacking it, you need to re-hack it?

I believe that re-hack delay is a couple of minutes so it's only an issue if rats spawn and you can't kill them quickly. Theoretically a longer hack range would let you orbit the can further out, thus keeping up your transversal. In practice nearly all high sec sites spawn frigates so transversal doesn't mitigate too much. Also frigates spawning during can hacking is fairly common and they can dish out a fair amount of damage. Hard to kite when the rats spawn on top of you...

I suspect that 5% scan strength bonus wont let you find the harder high sec sites (like the shitty hard to scan mag sites) without sisters gear or implants which are both impractical for people you're expecting to fly t1 frigates. Although I don't think that those specifications include rig calibration (although the rigs would probably cost more than the ship anyway...) Maybe that's not terrible mechanics giving people more stuff to find as their skills improve but in practice the best sites generally aren't the hardest to find anyway.

CPU seems low enough that you can't practically fit an expanded probe launcher and still fit tank/codebreaker/analyzer/salvager so no combat probes for noobs. Or deep space probes for pros. That seems a bit of a shame.

34km lock range isn't awesome for a kiting drone ship.

Three light drones is pretty decent, four for the Imicus with a 40 bay almost encroaches on ishkur territory(!)

[RoemySchneider]

the 5% probe bonus has always been lacking.
i do understand that T2 ships have to appear more :awesome: as an incentive to skill them, but this isn't the way to do it. i'd strongly suggest to to for the same 10%/level, just like EW ships are currently getting the same strength bonuses across all shapes&sizes.

while at it, bump up the things with the meager strength bonuses: the 5% & 10% thing on T2 and sister launchers is rather laughable. even more so on that one row of prospector imps (2%,6%,10%)
i'd go 10 and 20 on the launchers and 1.5x on the imps.

feel free to move the anti-unprobe'able value accordingly -.-

also, bump the scan time imp to, like, 50% in its most expensive form to actually matter.
maybe then whatshisface has a point about probing being too fast -.-

[Leboe]

raivi's getting shit done

[Dirk]

Cyno cycle time and fuel use bonus instead plox.

I detest how cheap throw away frigates allow capital ships to pour across the galaxy with no investment into the cyno ship.

This. If you're upset about the ozone consumption and chance of losing a 250k frig when moving your carrier about, please kill yourself.

I'd be in favour of massively increasing fuel usage or restricting cynos to specific, considerably more expensive, ships. The whole jump mechanic is being circumvented by the existence of cyno frigs, its just not difficult enough.


If you're trolling, well played....

[Tsubutai]

raivi's getting shit done

Wait, fozzie = raivi?

[Warmenhoven]

Cyno cycle time and fuel use bonus instead plox.

I detest how cheap throw away frigates allow capital ships to pour across the galaxy with no investment into the cyno ship.

This. If you're upset about the ozone consumption and chance of losing a 250k frig when moving your carrier about, please kill yourself.

I'd be in favour of massively increasing fuel usage or restricting cynos to specific, considerably more expensive, ships. The whole jump mechanic is being circumvented by the existence of cyno frigs, its just not difficult enough.


If you're trolling, well played....

Do not understand the rage =/

Cant be because of combat because i've only ever seen people cyno in on heavily tanked ships (seeing as you dont want cyno to pop as you jump) so you must be upset because people can move around and not have to go through gate camps? Are you in neg ten? or snuff?

[Yamato]

It's sad really

If you have t2 frigs dedicated to probing, then the regular t1 probing frig has an overlapping role.....
If they expand the role of the t1 frigs to be exploration-oriented they cannot run the sites alone....most rats would pop the ship in a few shots....

These exploration ships are meant for noobs running highsec profession sites. The rats there are pathetic.

[Joshua Foiritain]

Cyno cycle time and fuel use bonus instead plox.

I detest how cheap throw away frigates allow capital ships to pour across the galaxy with no investment into the cyno ship.

This. If you're upset about the ozone consumption and chance of losing a 250k frig when moving your carrier about, please kill yourself.

I'd be in favour of massively increasing fuel usage or restricting cynos to specific, considerably more expensive, ships. The whole jump mechanic is being circumvented by the existence of cyno frigs, its just not difficult enough.


If you're trolling, well played....

Its was mostly a joke because t1 exploration ships are retarded in concept, why would you waste time flying one of these when you can just fit a probe launcher to a ship that can actually shoot people or do complexes.

These ships only serve one purpose; disposable cyno frigates. I rarely use my recon for cynos because its either 5 minutes of waiting in my recon or 30 seconds in the cyno frigate as i just blow it up with my carrier.

[Zeekar]

I detest how cheap throw away frigates allow capital ships to pour across the galaxy with no investment into the cyno ship.

I don't like to advertise it, but noobships now have enough grid to fit a cyno. Depending on skills you might need some cargoholds to fit enough ozone tho.

You just needed a MAPC before so nothing has really changed.