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Thread: Regarding AFK Complex Farming

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaDutchDude View Post
    ....it really is a game design issue in the first place.
    Agreed.

    A Perma-respawning complex ripe for exploiting was....shockingly.....exploited.

    Remove static plex, remove plex respawn completely.

    Problem solved.
    AFAIK, if they just remove all the static plexes with respawning NPCs, they'll break a lot of COSMOS chains - you certainly need to get through the one in Otomainen to get Akemon's.

  2. #22
    Postradamus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaDutchDude View Post
    Yeah, there is some COSMOS plex with I believe 9 rooms which had a Domi in each but the final room just farming away for hours on end when I visited it. Pretty lame, gj they are doing something about it, although it really is a game design issue in the first place.
    It's me

    I broke EvE

    Here's the deal:
    There's a COSMOS complex in the Aphi system called "The Labyrinth". It is a maze of 9 rooms. In each room, there are four gates, and a special battleship and cruiser that spawn over and over relatively rapidly.

    You can sit there and manually farm them, but this ISK is pretty bad. Works out to about 5 mil ISK/hour for each room. At first glance, the rooms do not seem AFK farm-able via sentry drones, for two reasons:

    #1, the battleships do enough DPS to kill the sentry drones, even with a large remote repairer aimed at each drone.

    #2, sentry drones can't track the cruisers, even with multiple drone tracking mods.

    These problems combined to create a situation where after a few spawns, the sentry drones would invariably get caught firing at a cruiser, while the battleship would move out of range.
    However, if these problems could be solved, I realized that farming the rooms 23/7 with a fleet of AFK dominixes could yield about 24 billion ISK per month, without breaking the EULA. (24 billion AFTER paying to PLEX the necessary accounts).

    ~5 mil ISK/hour * 9 rooms * 23 hours * 28 days = ~29 bil/month

    I decided this was something I wanted to try. I quickly solved the problems I mentioned earlier via trial-and-error.

    #1, I came up with a domi fit that was basically 5 large RRs, all omnidirectional tracking links, cap power relays and 1 local rep. Paper-thin tank, but just enough to keep the domi alive vs. the spawn DPS.

    #2, I used a fleet booster to increase the amount of reps the RRs put out, solving the problem of the spawn killing sentry drones.

    #3 (THIS IS THE IMPORTANT ONE) I dropped the drones in two groups, so one group of sentry drones could always hit a cruiser orbiting the other group. Getting the drones to stay apart was a challenge. Anyone who has used sentry drones knows that they invariably end up at 0 on your ship. That is because sentry drones actually move. They move at 1 m/s towards their current target, and 1 m/s towards you if they are not firing. By dropping three drones, then setting the dominix to "keep at range" or about 7km from one, then dropping the other set, it was possible to keep about 7km distance between the two drone sets that would not close. This spacing allowed the drones to successfully kill the cruiser rats.

    With these problems solved, I started farming a few rooms with a few accounts. The ISK was great. However, after a few weeks, I got really sick of flying the ships into place every morning (I always get up around the end of downtime), even though I was making bank.

    Another emergent problem was that people had noticed what I was doing and started copying me. People had started to scan my ship and copy my setup.
    So I was faced with two new problems:

    #1: competition

    #2: lack of a desire to set up my fleet every day

    I solved these problems together. I decided that rather than farm the rooms myself, I would recruit other people to farm and I would be the overlord of the operation. With a combination of suicide ganking and denial tactics, I would push out the competition. I would use these same tactics to keep my farmers from rebelling against me.

    First, I recruited some people. I told them up front that I would be running what amounted to a protection racket. They would farm and pay me a percentage. If they got out of line, I promised I would park a drake AFK in their rooms, which would eventually get aggro and prevent them from AFK farming. I also told them that they would each be required to help me block others from farming if I requested their help. Each room generated about 3.2 bil/month. I would take a 33% cut.

    This might seem silly, but for these people, all the incentives were in place for their cooperation. A few people tried to cut me out, and I either blocked them from AFK farming myself, or had other farmers do it. One of my mates referred to this tactic as “pissing in the pot”. If anyone tried to farm without giving me a percentage, I would make sure no one got any isk. There were a few people who tried to keep farming despite my blocking tactics. I started suicide ganking these people with torp ravens and killing their AFK pods with suicide destroyers. It was easy; the farming setups had almost no tank, and Aphi is a 0.5 sec status system. (This was before the insurance change.) Getting into the Labyrinth required a rare and expensive re-usable key. I bought them up. After being ganked, many people found that they could not get back in.

    Within a month, I had either driven off or recruited all the competition into my organization. I had farmers in all 9 rooms farming 23/7. Each one paid me a 33% tax rate. For the next year, I collected about 9.6 bil/month and did virtually nothing other than suicide gank a few people and settle occasional disputes between my farmers. Occasionally, haters who knew what I was up to wardec’d my corps, but that was easy to avoid with corp-jumping.

    The best part was that this was all done within the scope of what was allowed. It was a goal of mine to not violate the EULA in any way.
    Unfortunately for me, eventually a lazy GM mistook my AFK farmers for botters and banned them all. After a lengthy petition process where I was forced to explain all these details, I was able to get the bans reversed, but was informed that what I had done would no longer be allowed, and that the devs would be implementing changes to prevent it from happening in the future.

    TL;DR:

    I got rich and forced CCP to change their bad game design

  3. #23

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    well, that explains the drake I saw lurking around from time to time, heh.

  4. #24
    Movember 2012 Warmenhoven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postradamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaDutchDude View Post
    Yeah, there is some COSMOS plex with I believe 9 rooms which had a Domi in each but the final room just farming away for hours on end when I visited it. Pretty lame, gj they are doing something about it, although it really is a game design issue in the first place.
    It's me

    I broke EvE

    Here's the deal:
    There's a COSMOS complex in the Aphi system called "The Labyrinth". It is a maze of 9 rooms. In each room, there are four gates, and a special battleship and cruiser that spawn over and over relatively rapidly.

    You can sit there and manually farm them, but this ISK is pretty bad. Works out to about 5 mil ISK/hour for each room. At first glance, the rooms do not seem AFK farm-able via sentry drones, for two reasons:

    #1, the battleships do enough DPS to kill the sentry drones, even with a large remote repairer aimed at each drone.

    #2, sentry drones can't track the cruisers, even with multiple drone tracking mods.

    These problems combined to create a situation where after a few spawns, the sentry drones would invariably get caught firing at a cruiser, while the battleship would move out of range.
    However, if these problems could be solved, I realized that farming the rooms 23/7 with a fleet of AFK dominixes could yield about 24 billion ISK per month, without breaking the EULA. (24 billion AFTER paying to PLEX the necessary accounts).

    ~5 mil ISK/hour * 9 rooms * 23 hours * 28 days = ~29 bil/month

    I decided this was something I wanted to try. I quickly solved the problems I mentioned earlier via trial-and-error.

    #1, I came up with a domi fit that was basically 5 large RRs, all omnidirectional tracking links, cap power relays and 1 local rep. Paper-thin tank, but just enough to keep the domi alive vs. the spawn DPS.

    #2, I used a fleet booster to increase the amount of reps the RRs put out, solving the problem of the spawn killing sentry drones.

    #3 (THIS IS THE IMPORTANT ONE) I dropped the drones in two groups, so one group of sentry drones could always hit a cruiser orbiting the other group. Getting the drones to stay apart was a challenge. Anyone who has used sentry drones knows that they invariably end up at 0 on your ship. That is because sentry drones actually move. They move at 1 m/s towards their current target, and 1 m/s towards you if they are not firing. By dropping three drones, then setting the dominix to "keep at range" or about 7km from one, then dropping the other set, it was possible to keep about 7km distance between the two drone sets that would not close. This spacing allowed the drones to successfully kill the cruiser rats.

    With these problems solved, I started farming a few rooms with a few accounts. The ISK was great. However, after a few weeks, I got really sick of flying the ships into place every morning (I always get up around the end of downtime), even though I was making bank.

    Another emergent problem was that people had noticed what I was doing and started copying me. People had started to scan my ship and copy my setup.
    So I was faced with two new problems:

    #1: competition

    #2: lack of a desire to set up my fleet every day

    I solved these problems together. I decided that rather than farm the rooms myself, I would recruit other people to farm and I would be the overlord of the operation. With a combination of suicide ganking and denial tactics, I would push out the competition. I would use these same tactics to keep my farmers from rebelling against me.

    First, I recruited some people. I told them up front that I would be running what amounted to a protection racket. They would farm and pay me a percentage. If they got out of line, I promised I would park a drake AFK in their rooms, which would eventually get aggro and prevent them from AFK farming. I also told them that they would each be required to help me block others from farming if I requested their help. Each room generated about 3.2 bil/month. I would take a 33% cut.

    This might seem silly, but for these people, all the incentives were in place for their cooperation. A few people tried to cut me out, and I either blocked them from AFK farming myself, or had other farmers do it. One of my mates referred to this tactic as “pissing in the pot”. If anyone tried to farm without giving me a percentage, I would make sure no one got any isk. There were a few people who tried to keep farming despite my blocking tactics. I started suicide ganking these people with torp ravens and killing their AFK pods with suicide destroyers. It was easy; the farming setups had almost no tank, and Aphi is a 0.5 sec status system. (This was before the insurance change.) Getting into the Labyrinth required a rare and expensive re-usable key. I bought them up. After being ganked, many people found that they could not get back in.

    Within a month, I had either driven off or recruited all the competition into my organization. I had farmers in all 9 rooms farming 23/7. Each one paid me a 33% tax rate. For the next year, I collected about 9.6 bil/month and did virtually nothing other than suicide gank a few people and settle occasional disputes between my farmers. Occasionally, haters who knew what I was up to wardec’d my corps, but that was easy to avoid with corp-jumping.

    The best part was that this was all done within the scope of what was allowed. It was a goal of mine to not violate the EULA in any way.
    Unfortunately for me, eventually a lazy GM mistook my AFK farmers for botters and banned them all. After a lengthy petition process where I was forced to explain all these details, I was able to get the bans reversed, but was informed that what I had done would no longer be allowed, and that the devs would be implementing changes to prevent it from happening in the future.

    TL;DR:

    I got rich and forced CCP to change their bad game design
    emergent game play at its finest, well done sir

  5. #25
    Movember 2012 Warmenhoven's Avatar
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    dopple poast
    Last edited by Warmenhoven; August 9 2012 at 05:49:28 PM.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Postradamus View Post
    It's me

    I broke EvE

    Here's the deal:
    *snip great story*
    Oh lol .... EVE: A Special Game for Special People ... great story ... stories like this always makes me wonder if I should hate people that exploit like that or admire them for their inventiveness and determination, so I usually just decide to go with both.
    - don't confuse the fact that I like to be right with the rumours that I actually might be -

    (DaDutchDude is in EVE hibernation in Some Random Corporation)

  7. #27
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postradamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaDutchDude View Post
    Yeah, there is some COSMOS plex with I believe 9 rooms which had a Domi in each but the final room just farming away for hours on end when I visited it. Pretty lame, gj they are doing something about it, although it really is a game design issue in the first place.
    It's me

    I broke EvE

    Here's the deal:
    There's a COSMOS complex in the Aphi system called "The Labyrinth". It is a maze of 9 rooms. In each room, there are four gates, and a special battleship and cruiser that spawn over and over relatively rapidly.

    You can sit there and manually farm them, but this ISK is pretty bad. Works out to about 5 mil ISK/hour for each room. At first glance, the rooms do not seem AFK farm-able via sentry drones, for two reasons:

    #1, the battleships do enough DPS to kill the sentry drones, even with a large remote repairer aimed at each drone.

    #2, sentry drones can't track the cruisers, even with multiple drone tracking mods.

    These problems combined to create a situation where after a few spawns, the sentry drones would invariably get caught firing at a cruiser, while the battleship would move out of range.
    However, if these problems could be solved, I realized that farming the rooms 23/7 with a fleet of AFK dominixes could yield about 24 billion ISK per month, without breaking the EULA. (24 billion AFTER paying to PLEX the necessary accounts).

    ~5 mil ISK/hour * 9 rooms * 23 hours * 28 days = ~29 bil/month

    I decided this was something I wanted to try. I quickly solved the problems I mentioned earlier via trial-and-error.

    #1, I came up with a domi fit that was basically 5 large RRs, all omnidirectional tracking links, cap power relays and 1 local rep. Paper-thin tank, but just enough to keep the domi alive vs. the spawn DPS.

    #2, I used a fleet booster to increase the amount of reps the RRs put out, solving the problem of the spawn killing sentry drones.

    #3 (THIS IS THE IMPORTANT ONE) I dropped the drones in two groups, so one group of sentry drones could always hit a cruiser orbiting the other group. Getting the drones to stay apart was a challenge. Anyone who has used sentry drones knows that they invariably end up at 0 on your ship. That is because sentry drones actually move. They move at 1 m/s towards their current target, and 1 m/s towards you if they are not firing. By dropping three drones, then setting the dominix to "keep at range" or about 7km from one, then dropping the other set, it was possible to keep about 7km distance between the two drone sets that would not close. This spacing allowed the drones to successfully kill the cruiser rats.

    With these problems solved, I started farming a few rooms with a few accounts. The ISK was great. However, after a few weeks, I got really sick of flying the ships into place every morning (I always get up around the end of downtime), even though I was making bank.

    Another emergent problem was that people had noticed what I was doing and started copying me. People had started to scan my ship and copy my setup.
    So I was faced with two new problems:

    #1: competition

    #2: lack of a desire to set up my fleet every day

    I solved these problems together. I decided that rather than farm the rooms myself, I would recruit other people to farm and I would be the overlord of the operation. With a combination of suicide ganking and denial tactics, I would push out the competition. I would use these same tactics to keep my farmers from rebelling against me.

    First, I recruited some people. I told them up front that I would be running what amounted to a protection racket. They would farm and pay me a percentage. If they got out of line, I promised I would park a drake AFK in their rooms, which would eventually get aggro and prevent them from AFK farming. I also told them that they would each be required to help me block others from farming if I requested their help. Each room generated about 3.2 bil/month. I would take a 33% cut.

    This might seem silly, but for these people, all the incentives were in place for their cooperation. A few people tried to cut me out, and I either blocked them from AFK farming myself, or had other farmers do it. One of my mates referred to this tactic as “pissing in the pot”. If anyone tried to farm without giving me a percentage, I would make sure no one got any isk. There were a few people who tried to keep farming despite my blocking tactics. I started suicide ganking these people with torp ravens and killing their AFK pods with suicide destroyers. It was easy; the farming setups had almost no tank, and Aphi is a 0.5 sec status system. (This was before the insurance change.) Getting into the Labyrinth required a rare and expensive re-usable key. I bought them up. After being ganked, many people found that they could not get back in.

    Within a month, I had either driven off or recruited all the competition into my organization. I had farmers in all 9 rooms farming 23/7. Each one paid me a 33% tax rate. For the next year, I collected about 9.6 bil/month and did virtually nothing other than suicide gank a few people and settle occasional disputes between my farmers. Occasionally, haters who knew what I was up to wardec’d my corps, but that was easy to avoid with corp-jumping.

    The best part was that this was all done within the scope of what was allowed. It was a goal of mine to not violate the EULA in any way.
    Unfortunately for me, eventually a lazy GM mistook my AFK farmers for botters and banned them all. After a lengthy petition process where I was forced to explain all these details, I was able to get the bans reversed, but was informed that what I had done would no longer be allowed, and that the devs would be implementing changes to prevent it from happening in the future.

    TL;DR:

    I got rich and forced CCP to change their bad game design
    Oh and you cams here and whined when you got banned for botting. Loool

  8. #28
    rojomojo915's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whispous View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rojomojo915 View Post
    make drone aggression the same as fighter aggression where you need to tell it to engage each target.


    Yea thanks, now when I'm jammed my drones will just sit back and popcorn while I am incapacitated.
    So true, didnt even think of that.

  9. #29
    Mortvvs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaDutchDude View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Postradamus View Post
    It's me

    I broke EvE

    Here's the deal:
    *snip great story*
    Oh lol .... EVE: A Special Game for Special People ... great story ... stories like this always makes me wonder if I should hate people that exploit like that or admire them for their inventiveness and determination, so I usually just decide to go with both.
    I don't see it as an exploit, same as when goons played around in FW, it's all within game mechanics (at that time). Also, this is why i love Eve.

  10. #30
    Postradamus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Postradamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaDutchDude View Post
    Yeah, there is some COSMOS plex with I believe 9 rooms which had a Domi in each but the final room just farming away for hours on end when I visited it. Pretty lame, gj they are doing something about it, although it really is a game design issue in the first place.
    It's me

    I broke EvE

    Here's the deal:

    *SNIP*

    TL;DR:

    I got rich and forced CCP to change their bad game design
    Oh and you cams here and whined when you got banned for botting. Loool
    Oh, you mean this? I'd say it was mainly information gathering in preparation for a 3-month petition marathon, but it does have that whine flavor, I guess

  11. #31
    ValorousBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verite Rendition View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chakrai View Post
    Be a true pro and do it while not appearing in local:

    1) Set up 2 cap stable repair heavy Dominix with a warp scram on each one.
    2) Warp into whatever you want to farm.
    3) Pull aggro, sic drones on the bad guys, scram each other and logoff.
    4) Come back later to a pile of isk and wrecks.
    Wouldn't the warp scrams turn off and your drones shut down when you logged out? Or does this actually work?
    I think you're right, but I really hope that something that creative actually works.


    Quote Originally Posted by Postradamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Oh and you came here and whined when you got banned for botting. Loool
    Oh, you mean this? I'd say it was mainly information gathering in preparation for a 3-month petition marathon, but it does have that whine flavor, I guess
    Fuck that, you were wrongly banned and came seeking advice. There's nothing wrong with that. I remember that thread, most of the people who were hating were just being bitter faggots. Amazingly, many FHC'ers were capable of the mental gymnastics/doublethink required to simultaneously believe that CCP is literally Hitler and yet there's no way you could have been wrongly banned and you were probably just a whiny botter.

  12. #32
    Donor Rans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postradamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaDutchDude View Post
    Yeah, there is some COSMOS plex with I believe 9 rooms which had a Domi in each but the final room just farming away for hours on end when I visited it. Pretty lame, gj they are doing something about it, although it really is a game design issue in the first place.
    It's me

    I broke EvE

    Here's the deal:
    There's a COSMOS complex in the Aphi system called "The Labyrinth". It is a maze of 9 rooms. In each room, there are four gates, and a special battleship and cruiser that spawn over and over relatively rapidly.

    You can sit there and manually farm them, but this ISK is pretty bad. Works out to about 5 mil ISK/hour for each room. At first glance, the rooms do not seem AFK farm-able via sentry drones, for two reasons:

    #1, the battleships do enough DPS to kill the sentry drones, even with a large remote repairer aimed at each drone.

    #2, sentry drones can't track the cruisers, even with multiple drone tracking mods.

    These problems combined to create a situation where after a few spawns, the sentry drones would invariably get caught firing at a cruiser, while the battleship would move out of range.
    However, if these problems could be solved, I realized that farming the rooms 23/7 with a fleet of AFK dominixes could yield about 24 billion ISK per month, without breaking the EULA. (24 billion AFTER paying to PLEX the necessary accounts).

    ~5 mil ISK/hour * 9 rooms * 23 hours * 28 days = ~29 bil/month

    I decided this was something I wanted to try. I quickly solved the problems I mentioned earlier via trial-and-error.

    #1, I came up with a domi fit that was basically 5 large RRs, all omnidirectional tracking links, cap power relays and 1 local rep. Paper-thin tank, but just enough to keep the domi alive vs. the spawn DPS.

    #2, I used a fleet booster to increase the amount of reps the RRs put out, solving the problem of the spawn killing sentry drones.

    #3 (THIS IS THE IMPORTANT ONE) I dropped the drones in two groups, so one group of sentry drones could always hit a cruiser orbiting the other group. Getting the drones to stay apart was a challenge. Anyone who has used sentry drones knows that they invariably end up at 0 on your ship. That is because sentry drones actually move. They move at 1 m/s towards their current target, and 1 m/s towards you if they are not firing. By dropping three drones, then setting the dominix to "keep at range" or about 7km from one, then dropping the other set, it was possible to keep about 7km distance between the two drone sets that would not close. This spacing allowed the drones to successfully kill the cruiser rats.

    With these problems solved, I started farming a few rooms with a few accounts. The ISK was great. However, after a few weeks, I got really sick of flying the ships into place every morning (I always get up around the end of downtime), even though I was making bank.

    Another emergent problem was that people had noticed what I was doing and started copying me. People had started to scan my ship and copy my setup.
    So I was faced with two new problems:

    #1: competition

    #2: lack of a desire to set up my fleet every day

    I solved these problems together. I decided that rather than farm the rooms myself, I would recruit other people to farm and I would be the overlord of the operation. With a combination of suicide ganking and denial tactics, I would push out the competition. I would use these same tactics to keep my farmers from rebelling against me.

    First, I recruited some people. I told them up front that I would be running what amounted to a protection racket. They would farm and pay me a percentage. If they got out of line, I promised I would park a drake AFK in their rooms, which would eventually get aggro and prevent them from AFK farming. I also told them that they would each be required to help me block others from farming if I requested their help. Each room generated about 3.2 bil/month. I would take a 33% cut.

    This might seem silly, but for these people, all the incentives were in place for their cooperation. A few people tried to cut me out, and I either blocked them from AFK farming myself, or had other farmers do it. One of my mates referred to this tactic as “pissing in the pot”. If anyone tried to farm without giving me a percentage, I would make sure no one got any isk. There were a few people who tried to keep farming despite my blocking tactics. I started suicide ganking these people with torp ravens and killing their AFK pods with suicide destroyers. It was easy; the farming setups had almost no tank, and Aphi is a 0.5 sec status system. (This was before the insurance change.) Getting into the Labyrinth required a rare and expensive re-usable key. I bought them up. After being ganked, many people found that they could not get back in.

    Within a month, I had either driven off or recruited all the competition into my organization. I had farmers in all 9 rooms farming 23/7. Each one paid me a 33% tax rate. For the next year, I collected about 9.6 bil/month and did virtually nothing other than suicide gank a few people and settle occasional disputes between my farmers. Occasionally, haters who knew what I was up to wardec’d my corps, but that was easy to avoid with corp-jumping.

    The best part was that this was all done within the scope of what was allowed. It was a goal of mine to not violate the EULA in any way.
    Unfortunately for me, eventually a lazy GM mistook my AFK farmers for botters and banned them all. After a lengthy petition process where I was forced to explain all these details, I was able to get the bans reversed, but was informed that what I had done would no longer be allowed, and that the devs would be implementing changes to prevent it from happening in the future.

    TL;DR:

    I got rich and forced CCP to change their bad game design
    BIG UP BRO
    Hey, I just met you,
    and this is crazy
    but here's my number,
    so call me, maybe?



  13. #33
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    We need a emoticon with EVE instead of the cube. It will rarely see a use, but when it does, it is for posts like the ones above.

    Also lol@ban thread in retrospect.
    nevar forget

  14. #34
    Marlona Sky's Avatar
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    So why not just bring sleeper AI to all NPC spawns instead of players now living in fear of using drone boats to pve with?

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlona Sky View Post
    So why not just bring sleeper AI to all NPC spawns instead of players now living in fear of using drone boats to pve with?
    First, because that is probably a lot of work to keep things balanced. I mean, changing the loot drop table is already so hard they just replace T1 with metal scraps, imagine how hard this would be?

    Second, it might not actually solve the problem unless you up the DPS output as well, since this setup is designed to RR the sentries, so having NPC shoot drones is already accounted for.
    - don't confuse the fact that I like to be right with the rumours that I actually might be -

    (DaDutchDude is in EVE hibernation in Some Random Corporation)

  16. #36
    Movember 2012 Nicho Void's Avatar
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    People have always said the only way to win Eve is to not play. I guess this proves it true.

  17. #37

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    Edit: I though the problem suddenly became people taking full room aggro in whatever drone boat they had,launching drones and going afk. Not that we had a criminal mastermind running a protecting racket involving drone boats.
    Last edited by Doomed Predator; August 9 2012 at 10:26:47 PM.

  18. #38
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomed Predator View Post
    So instead of making rats shoot drones after a while they just ban people...
    Rats already shoot drones. Except some missions, most rat spawns will go for the highest or currently damage dealing entity on the field. In case of drone boats that is very often the drones themselves. Other times the drones kill the trigger for the next spawn wave and your drones are gone. This was circumvented by having a large rep on each drone from the first second on. In missions with a drone boat you just grab aggro of the whole room, setting off triggers with a gun one mounts on the drone boat. Release drones, go afk. There is no need for sleeper AI, more dps and especially enough dps to kill a sentry drone even though it gets reps is all it needs. Since rats with the old AI already can use e-war of all flavors, adding some target painting to make them easier to hit would be a simple addition. Or rat-ECM to shut off the reps.

    Seriously, switching to sleeper AI sounds nice and buzzwordy, but is for half the shit wrong with such situations overkill. Adjust the capabilities of the rats and the problem is solved. Until the next player figures out how to play the system.
    nevar forget

  19. #39
    Donor Malaes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Postradamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaDutchDude View Post
    Yeah, there is some COSMOS plex with I believe 9 rooms which had a Domi in each but the final room just farming away for hours on end when I visited it. Pretty lame, gj they are doing something about it, although it really is a game design issue in the first place.
    It's me

    I broke EvE

    Here's the deal:
    There's a COSMOS complex in the Aphi system called "The Labyrinth". It is a maze of 9 rooms. In each room, there are four gates, and a special battleship and cruiser that spawn over and over relatively rapidly.

    You can sit there and manually farm them, but this ISK is pretty bad. Works out to about 5 mil ISK/hour for each room. At first glance, the rooms do not seem AFK farm-able via sentry drones, for two reasons:

    #1, the battleships do enough DPS to kill the sentry drones, even with a large remote repairer aimed at each drone.

    #2, sentry drones can't track the cruisers, even with multiple drone tracking mods.

    These problems combined to create a situation where after a few spawns, the sentry drones would invariably get caught firing at a cruiser, while the battleship would move out of range.
    However, if these problems could be solved, I realized that farming the rooms 23/7 with a fleet of AFK dominixes could yield about 24 billion ISK per month, without breaking the EULA. (24 billion AFTER paying to PLEX the necessary accounts).

    ~5 mil ISK/hour * 9 rooms * 23 hours * 28 days = ~29 bil/month

    I decided this was something I wanted to try. I quickly solved the problems I mentioned earlier via trial-and-error.

    #1, I came up with a domi fit that was basically 5 large RRs, all omnidirectional tracking links, cap power relays and 1 local rep. Paper-thin tank, but just enough to keep the domi alive vs. the spawn DPS.

    #2, I used a fleet booster to increase the amount of reps the RRs put out, solving the problem of the spawn killing sentry drones.

    #3 (THIS IS THE IMPORTANT ONE) I dropped the drones in two groups, so one group of sentry drones could always hit a cruiser orbiting the other group. Getting the drones to stay apart was a challenge. Anyone who has used sentry drones knows that they invariably end up at 0 on your ship. That is because sentry drones actually move. They move at 1 m/s towards their current target, and 1 m/s towards you if they are not firing. By dropping three drones, then setting the dominix to "keep at range" or about 7km from one, then dropping the other set, it was possible to keep about 7km distance between the two drone sets that would not close. This spacing allowed the drones to successfully kill the cruiser rats.

    With these problems solved, I started farming a few rooms with a few accounts. The ISK was great. However, after a few weeks, I got really sick of flying the ships into place every morning (I always get up around the end of downtime), even though I was making bank.

    Another emergent problem was that people had noticed what I was doing and started copying me. People had started to scan my ship and copy my setup.
    So I was faced with two new problems:

    #1: competition

    #2: lack of a desire to set up my fleet every day

    I solved these problems together. I decided that rather than farm the rooms myself, I would recruit other people to farm and I would be the overlord of the operation. With a combination of suicide ganking and denial tactics, I would push out the competition. I would use these same tactics to keep my farmers from rebelling against me.

    First, I recruited some people. I told them up front that I would be running what amounted to a protection racket. They would farm and pay me a percentage. If they got out of line, I promised I would park a drake AFK in their rooms, which would eventually get aggro and prevent them from AFK farming. I also told them that they would each be required to help me block others from farming if I requested their help. Each room generated about 3.2 bil/month. I would take a 33% cut.

    This might seem silly, but for these people, all the incentives were in place for their cooperation. A few people tried to cut me out, and I either blocked them from AFK farming myself, or had other farmers do it. One of my mates referred to this tactic as “pissing in the pot”. If anyone tried to farm without giving me a percentage, I would make sure no one got any isk. There were a few people who tried to keep farming despite my blocking tactics. I started suicide ganking these people with torp ravens and killing their AFK pods with suicide destroyers. It was easy; the farming setups had almost no tank, and Aphi is a 0.5 sec status system. (This was before the insurance change.) Getting into the Labyrinth required a rare and expensive re-usable key. I bought them up. After being ganked, many people found that they could not get back in.

    Within a month, I had either driven off or recruited all the competition into my organization. I had farmers in all 9 rooms farming 23/7. Each one paid me a 33% tax rate. For the next year, I collected about 9.6 bil/month and did virtually nothing other than suicide gank a few people and settle occasional disputes between my farmers. Occasionally, haters who knew what I was up to wardec’d my corps, but that was easy to avoid with corp-jumping.

    The best part was that this was all done within the scope of what was allowed. It was a goal of mine to not violate the EULA in any way.
    Unfortunately for me, eventually a lazy GM mistook my AFK farmers for botters and banned them all. After a lengthy petition process where I was forced to explain all these details, I was able to get the bans reversed, but was informed that what I had done would no longer be allowed, and that the devs would be implementing changes to prevent it from happening in the future.

    TL;DR:

    I got rich and forced CCP to change their bad game design
    BIG UP BRO

  20. #40
    Glyken Touchon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alain Colcer View Post
    now thats interesting, they are going to penalize certain "extremist" exploiting of normal game mechanics, isnt this a first?
    what are the odds for AFK cloaking being on their hit-list?

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