Existing destroyer + T1 Ewar Frigate Winter Rebalance

[Suleiman Shouaa]

https://forums.eveonline.com/default...21#post1769221

T1 Destroyer Re-Vamp

Hello folks,

While CCP Fozzie is having a look at remaining frigates we can start talking about having a look at existing destroyers here. The new destroyers announced in the summer update blog will be discussed in another topic.

This ship class is aimed to be an anti-frigate platform, and should trade resilience, mobility for firepower. The extra role we want for planetary bombardment will come at a later date. Existing destroyers are mostly fine as they are right now, except for the Coercer which has some serious issues, so the changes are pretty minimal so far.

As always, constructive comments are welcome.


Suggested changes are mentioned below:

COERCER:

One medium slot is highly impractical for any kind of solo or even small gang fit and has been changed. Fittings also were quite low and should allow to squeeze medium pulse lasers, even medium beams with the module changes listed below.

• Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
• Slot layout: 8 H, 2 M (+1), 3 L (-1)
• Fittings: 85 PWG (+10), 168 CPU (+8)
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 700 (+12) / 900 (+40) / 800 (+70)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 700 (-3) / 370 s / 1.9
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 255 (+3) / 2.75 (-0.1485) / 4.28 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 525 / 6
• Sensor strength: 10 Radar
• Signature radius: 62

CORMORANT:

Swapped one medium for one low slot, altered fittings to compensate. Capacitor, agility and signature radius were inconsistent with other Caldari ships and have been adjusted.

• Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
• Slot layout: 8 H, 3 M (-1), 2 L (+1)
• Fittings: 68 PWG (+13), 168 CPU (-15)
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 900 (+40) / 700 (+12) / 700 (+23)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 600 (-25) / 320 s (-13) / 1.9
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 250 (+1) / 2.5 (+0.231) / 4.42 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 36km / 475 / 7
• Sensor strength: 12 Gravimetric
• Signature radius: 65 (-3)

CATALYST:

Slot layout untouched. Brought capacitor amount, agility and signature radius in-line with the revamped frigates and other destroyer variants.

• Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
• Slot layout: 8 H, 2 M, 3 L
• Fittings: 60 PWG, 170 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 750 (+5) / 800 (-3) / 900 (+118)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 650 (+64) / 350 s (+37.5) / 1.8
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 265 (-1) / 2.45 (-0.352) / 4.04 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 33km / 500 / 7
• Sensor strength: 11 Magnetometric
• Signature radius: 68 (+3)

THRASHER:

Left untouched apart from some minor adjustments.

• Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
• Slot layout: 8 H, 3 M, 2 L
• Fittings: 70 PWG, 170 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 (-3) / 750 (+5) / 750 (+125)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 550 (+3) / 290 s (-1.6) / 1.9
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 270 (+2) / 2.89 / 4.17 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 27km / 550 / 6
• Sensor strength: 9 Ladar
• Signature radius: 56

MODULES:

The point of module changes is to increase usefulness of weapons we consider as either underpowered or just too difficult to fit right now. This includes medium beam laser, medium pulse lasers and light missiles.

• All medium beam laser variations: -1 PWG and -1 CPU
• All medium pulse laser variations: -1 PWG and -1 CPU
• All light missile variations: explosion velocity reduced from 50 to 40, damage increased by 10%

2 mid Coercer \o/

T1 Ewar Frigate Re-Vamp

https://forums.eveonline.com/default...36&find=unread

Insert tired and overused Game of Thrones reference here.

Good news everyone! Now that we have Inferno 1.2 out the door we're going to start posting threads for stuff we are working on for the winter. My first set is the T1 EW frigs (Crucifier, Griffin, Maulus, Vigil). We're giving them the tiericide treatment which means that since they were formerly low-tier they are getting very significant buffs.

Our vision for these ships is that they become commonly used by newer players to take useful roles in fleets of many sizes. These changes are not being made in a vaccum, we expect to release them alongside a lot more balance changes in the Winter that should include the T1 EW cruisers and some tweaks to certain ewar mechanics themselves (among other things).

The Crucifier and Vigil are being given strong roles towards longer range disruption, and the fact that the Griffin and Maulus are more medium range oriented is intended and part of the overall environment change.

We also realize that these changes will make the current problems with EAFs even more obvious, and we're putting a lot of thought into them as well.

Like all the posts we make in this forum, these ships are a work in progress and we're looking for as much feedback as possible.

Without further ado, here's what we've got so far:

CRUCIFIER:

Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness per level
10% Bonus to Tracking Disruptor optimal range per level
Slot layout: 2 H, 4 M (+1), 3 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 27 PWG (+2), 235 CPU (+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 250(-24) / 400(+25) / 350(+21)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 330 (+80)/ 180s (-7.5s)/ 1.8333333 (+0.5)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass): 350 (+68) / 3.35(-1.09) / 1064000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(+10) / 45(+40)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64km (+16.5) / 540 (+100) / 6
Sensor strength: 14 Radar
Signature radius: 38 (-8)
Cargo capacity: 265 (+100)


GRIFFIN:

Frigate skill bonuses (unchanged):
15% Bonus to ECM Jammer strength per level
10% Bonus to ECM Jammer cap use per level
Slot layout: 2 H (-1), 5 M (+1), 2 L (+1), 2 launchers
Fittings: 24 PWG (-1), 240 CPU (+15)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400(+9) / 250 / 250
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 245 (-5)/ 135s (-52.5s)/ 1.815 (+0.482)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass): 325 (+38) / 3.5(+0.14) / 1056000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km (+5) / 500 (+100) / 6 (+1)
Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 42 (-8)
Cargo capacity: 260 (+100)


MAULUS:

Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Sensor Damp effectiveness per level
10% Bonus to Drone MWD velocity and Drone control range per level
Slot layout: 2 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 3 L (+1), 2 turrets
Fittings: 26 PWG (+1), 230 CPU (+10)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300(-13) / 350(-1) / 400(+71)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 275 (+25)/ 150s (-37.5s)/ 1.8333333 (+0.5)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass): 375 (+69) / 3.25(-0.626) / 1063000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(+10) / 30(+20)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64.5km (+14.5) / 520 (+100) / 6
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 40 (-8)
Cargo capacity: 275 (+100)


VIGIL:

Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Target Painter effectiveness per level
10% Bonus to Target Painter optimal range per level
Slot layout: 2 H (-1), 5 M (+2), 2 L (-1), 2 launchers
Fittings: 25 PWG , 225 CPU (+15)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350(+76) / 300(+26) / 300(+42)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 235 (-15)/ 130s (-57.5s)/ 1.8077 (+0.57)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass): 400 (+47) / 3.22 / 1080000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 63.5km (+18.5) / 560 (+105) / 6
Sensor strength: 12 Ladar
Signature radius: 36 (-8)
Cargo capacity: 250 (+100)

[Varcaus]

Looks pretty good apart from the thrasher.

[Madner Kami]

COERCER:

• Signature radius: 83

CORMORANT:

• Signature radius: 86 (-4)

CATALYST:

• Signature radius: 90 (+4)

THRASHER:

• Signature radius: 75

Really? After finally reducing their sig-size to some sensible numbers just a few patches ago, they go back and nerf them again?

Also @ OP: Please fix your link. It doesn't link to where you quote from.

[Mortalitis]

Also @ OP: Please fix your link. It doesn't link to where you quote from.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default...21#post1769221

Liking the coercer changes, not sure on the cormorant but I doubt I will be flying any of the ships anyway.

[Malaes]

Hope the sig change doesn't affect my man tanked catalyst backbone too much

[Madner Kami]

Also @ OP: Please fix your link. It doesn't link to where you quote from.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default...21#post1769221

Thank you

[Smuggo]

CORMORANT:

Swapped one medium for one low slot, altered fittings to compensate. Capacitor, agility and signature radius were inconsistent with other Caldari ships and have been adjusted.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

[Madner Kami]

Hope the sig change doesn't affect my man tanked catalyst backbone too much

I'm kinda perplexed, because I just realized that all these changes are based on the old destroyer stats instead of the current ones.

Update: LOL

Err, no, that's typo from an old spreadsheet I used and forgot to update. [][]

Will change that, no beatings, they hurt us, yes they do my precious.

Edit: hang on, noticing more screw-ups from old spreadsheet ARRG. Will update main post asap, sorry about that.

[XenosisReaper]

Hope the sig change doesn't affect my man tanked catalyst backbone too much

I'm kinda perplexed, because I just realized that all these changes are based on the old destroyer stats instead of the current ones.

Update: LOL

Err, no, that's typo from an old spreadsheet I used and forgot to update. [][]

Will change that, no beatings, they hurt us, yes they do my precious.

Edit: hang on, noticing more screw-ups from old spreadsheet ARRG. Will update main post asap, sorry about that.

NBS

[Tsubutai]

I like the four-mid cormorant and would prefer to keep it. Having one lowslot isn't exactly crippling since it can still get a decent shield tank without a DCU, and it's nice being the only destroyer that can fit full tackle or a bit of ewar with a shield tank. PG increase is good, though. Not sure that the coercer needs the extra PG, especially with the lower fitting requirements for MPLs, but it should be even more of a beast when the changes go through. The light missile changes are nice, but the fitting requirements of standard launchers really need to be brought down for them to become truly useful.

[Madner Kami]

There we go, fixed stats:

Hello folks,

While CCP Fozzie is having a look at remaining frigates we can start talking about having a look at existing destroyers here. The new destroyers announced in the summer update blog will be discussed in another topic.

This ship class is aimed to be an anti-frigate platform, and should trade resilience, mobility for firepower. The extra role we want for planetary bombardment will come at a later date. Existing destroyers are mostly fine as they are right now, except for the Coercer which has some serious issues, so the changes are pretty minimal so far.

As always, constructive comments are welcome.


Suggested changes are mentioned below:

COERCER:

One medium slot is highly impractical for any kind of solo or even small gang fit and has been changed. Fittings also were quite low and should allow to squeeze medium pulse lasers, even medium beams with the module changes listed below.

• Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
• Slot layout: 8 H, 2 M (+1), 3 L (-1)
• Fittings: 85 PWG (+10), 168 CPU (+8)
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 700 (+12) / 900 (+40) / 800 (+70)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 700 (-3) / 370 s / 1.9
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 255 (+3) / 2.75 (-0.1485) / 4.28 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 525 / 6
• Sensor strength: 10 Radar
• Signature radius: 62

CORMORANT:

Swapped one medium for one low slot, altered fittings to compensate. Capacitor, agility and signature radius were inconsistent with other Caldari ships and have been adjusted.

• Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
• Slot layout: 8 H, 3 M (-1), 2 L (+1)
• Fittings: 68 PWG (+13), 168 CPU (-15)
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 900 (+40) / 700 (+12) / 700 (+23)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 600 (-25) / 320 s (-13) / 1.9
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 250 (+1) / 2.5 (+0.231) / 4.42 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 36km / 475 / 7
• Sensor strength: 12 Gravimetric
• Signature radius: 65 (-3)

CATALYST:

Slot layout untouched. Brought capacitor amount, agility and signature radius in-line with the revamped frigates and other destroyer variants.

• Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
• Slot layout: 8 H, 2 M, 3 L
• Fittings: 60 PWG, 170 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 750 (+5) / 800 (-3) / 900 (+118)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 650 (+64) / 350 s (+37.5) / 1.8
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 265 (-1) / 2.45 (-0.352) / 4.04 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 33km / 500 / 7
• Sensor strength: 11 Magnetometric
• Signature radius: 68 (+3)

THRASHER:

Left untouched apart from some minor adjustments.

• Destroyer skill bonuses: unchanged
• Slot layout: 8 H, 3 M, 2 L
• Fittings: 70 PWG, 170 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 (-3) / 750 (+5) / 750 (+125)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 550 (+3) / 290 s (-1.6) / 1.9
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 270 (+2) / 2.89 / 4.17 s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 27km / 550 / 6
• Sensor strength: 9 Ladar
• Signature radius: 56

MODULES:

The point of module changes is to increase usefulness of weapons we consider as either underpowered or just too difficult to fit right now. This includes medium beam laser, medium pulse lasers and light missiles.

• All medium beam laser variations: -1 PWG and -1 CPU
• All medium pulse laser variations: -1 PWG and -1 CPU
• All light missile variations: explosion velocity reduced from 50 to 40, damage increased by 10%

That looks much better.

[Zibu]

There's also a topic for new EW frigates:

#1 Posted: 2012.08.09 13:39 | Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
Insert tired and overused Game of Thrones reference here.

Good news everyone! Now that we have Inferno 1.2 out the door we're going to start posting threads for stuff we are working on for the winter. My first set is the T1 EW frigs (Crucifier, Griffin, Maulus, Vigil). We're giving them the tiericide treatment which means that since they were formerly low-tier they are getting very significant buffs.

Our vision for these ships is that they become commonly used by newer players to take useful roles in fleets of many sizes. These changes are not being made in a vaccum, we expect to release them alongside a lot more balance changes in the Winter that should include the T1 EW cruisers and some tweaks to certain ewar mechanics themselves (among other things).

The Crucifier and Vigil are being given strong roles towards longer range disruption, and the fact that the Griffin and Maulus are more medium range oriented is intended and part of the overall environment change.

We also realize that these changes will make the current problems with EAFs even more obvious, and we're putting a lot of thought into them as well.

Like all the posts we make in this forum, these ships are a work in progress and we're looking for as much feedback as possible.

Without further ado, here's what we've got so far:

CRUCIFIER:

Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness per level
10% Bonus to Tracking Disruptor optimal range per level
Slot layout: 2 H, 4 M (+1), 3 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 27 PWG (+2), 235 CPU (+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 250(-24) / 400(+25) / 350(+21)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 330 (+80)/ 180s (-7.5s)/ 1.8333333 (+0.5)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass): 350 (+68) / 3.35(-1.09) / 1064000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(+10) / 45(+40)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64km (+16.5) / 540 (+100) / 6
Sensor strength: 14 Radar
Signature radius: 38 (-8)
Cargo capacity: 265 (+100)


GRIFFIN:

Frigate skill bonuses (unchanged):
15% Bonus to ECM Jammer strength per level
10% Bonus to ECM Jammer cap use per level
Slot layout: 2 H (-1), 5 M (+1), 2 L (+1), 2 launchers
Fittings: 24 PWG (-1), 240 CPU (+15)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400(+9) / 250 / 250
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 245 (-5)/ 135s (-52.5s)/ 1.815 (+0.482)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass): 325 (+38) / 3.5(+0.14) / 1056000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km (+5) / 500 (+100) / 6 (+1)
Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 42 (-8)
Cargo capacity: 260 (+100)


MAULUS:

Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Sensor Damp effectiveness per level
10% Bonus to Drone MWD velocity and Drone control range per level
Slot layout: 2 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 3 L (+1), 2 turrets
Fittings: 26 PWG (+1), 230 CPU (+10)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300(-13) / 350(-1) / 400(+71)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 275 (+25)/ 150s (-37.5s)/ 1.8333333 (+0.5)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass): 375 (+69) / 3.25(-0.626) / 1063000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(+10) / 30(+20)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64.5km (+14.5) / 520 (+100) / 6
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 40 (-8)
Cargo capacity: 275 (+100)


VIGIL:

Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Target Painter effectiveness per level
10% Bonus to Target Painter optimal range per level
Slot layout: 2 H (-1), 5 M (+2), 2 L (-1), 2 launchers
Fittings: 25 PWG , 225 CPU (+15)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350(+76) / 300(+26) / 300(+42)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 235 (-15)/ 130s (-57.5s)/ 1.8077 (+0.57)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass): 400 (+47) / 3.22 / 1080000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 63.5km (+18.5) / 560 (+105) / 6
Sensor strength: 12 Ladar
Signature radius: 36 (-8)
Cargo capacity: 250 (+100)

https://forums.eveonline.com/default...36&find=unread

[Madner Kami]

MAULUS:

Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Sensor Damp effectiveness per level
10% Bonus to Drone MWD velocity and Drone control range per level

Not convinced of usefullness of the secondary bonus, especially in contrast to the other EWar-Frigates.

[Smuggo]

5 mid-griffin :s

This makes me very worried about how they will buff the Kitsune.

[Malaes]

Hope the sig change doesn't affect my man tanked catalyst backbone too much

I'm kinda perplexed, because I just realized that all these changes are based on the old destroyer stats instead of the current ones.

Update: LOL

Err, no, that's typo from an old spreadsheet I used and forgot to update. [][]

Will change that, no beatings, they hurt us, yes they do my precious.

Edit: hang on, noticing more screw-ups from old spreadsheet ARRG. Will update main post asap, sorry about that.

:ccp: never letting us down with the screw ups

[Alain Colcer]

uh, a maulus with 4 light drones? isn't that a bit dangerous to be suited for other purposes? specially with a 4 mid-slot shield tank?

[Rudolf Miller]

Saw EW frigates and thought no way... then say it was T1

Also, increasing the already insane optimal range of TDs on the Crucifier will make targeting range the choke point. Kinda removes the point of the bonus.

[Alistair]

I appalaud the 2-Midslot Amarr Destroyer.

[DaDutchDude]

Vigil buff, best buff! 10% optimal range bonus to TPs and extra lock range = long range cheap ass support for your BS fleets, vaporizing anything that moves even more easily now

[Daneel Trevize]

more balance changes in the Winter that should include the T1 EW cruisers and some tweaks to certain ewar mechanics themselves (among other things).

Holy fucking shit!

Increased drone velocity is actually harmful, since it makes the drones overshoot.

Also for gods sake, fix ecm before you start buffing ecm ships.

I've done a fair bit of testing with the 10% per level bonus and it's worked well so far. May get changed though with further testing.
I also tried a 20% per level bonus for fun and it did break things in quite funny ways.

As for the second part, I have plans.