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Thread: [Devblog] Ship Balancing: Mining Barges

  1. #1
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Post [Devblog] Ship Balancing: Mining Barges

    The big picture

    This summer we will be revamping the Mining Barges and Exhumers, hereafter collectively referred to as barges. This is part of a larger initiative, spearheaded by CCP Ytterbium, where we revamp ship classes one by one.
    Here is Ytterbium's initial blog about the initiative: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time
    In his update blog, Ship balancing summer update, he goes into some details about the barges.
    For those of you who didn't read that, here's a quick summary of the mining part of the blog:

    • Current mining frigates are no longer going to be mining frigates.
    • We are going to make a new ORE mining frigate.
    • Mining Barges and Exhumers are getting the "tiericide" treatment, where they will have specific roles rather than being a linear progression from worst at mining to best at mining.
    • Procurer and Skiff will have good defence.
    • Retriever and Mackinaw will have large ore holds.
    • Covetor and Hulk will have good mining output.

    The goal here is to allow players to choose a barge that fits their specific play style rather than lead them on a journey from the worst barge to the best one.

    • The Covetor and Hulk cater to group mining operations due to their large mining capability, low EHP and storage, forcing them to rely on others to haul and resupply them with mining crystals.
    • The Retriever and Mackinaw are specifically designed for autonomy purposes, as their large ore bays allow their pilot to stay inside an asteroid belt for longer without having to dock.
    • The Procurer and Skiff are made for protection against suicide gank, or NPCs, by giving a large enough buffer to react to incoming attacks, while paying for that with a lower mining yield.

    Mining

    The barges are primarily mining ships, which means that regardless of what else they do, they have to be good at mining. The difference between the lowest and highest mining output was way too much, so the first thing we did was to bring the mining outputs of the different barges closer together. Hulk is still the king of yield, but the others are not so far behind as to be redundant.
    With the new roles of cargo, tank and yield, the old roles had to be reconsidered as well. Without changing those, the Ice and Mercoxit bonuses of the Skiff and Mackinaw would have meant that Ice miners would be forced to fly the ore hold barge and Mercoxit miners would be forced to fly the tanking barge. That would have gone against the goal of giving players more options, so we decided to move those bonuses away from the ships. Now you can choose which barge you want to fly and then put on rigs that boost your Ice or Mercoxit mining efficiency.
    Here is the end results of the changes to mining bonuses. For each type of ore/ice this is assuming perfect skills, fittings, implants and fleet bonuses (mining drones not included). I'll leave it to you to figure out exactly what those are.
    Ship Veldspar/hour Mercoxit/hour Ice/hour
    Hulk 1,739,139 2,749 73
    Covetor 1,578,043 2,492 69
    Mackinaw 1,505,059 2,377 68
    Retriever 1,433,390 2,264 64
    Skiff 1,380,788 2,185 61
    Procurer 1,315,038 2,078 58
    Tanking

    All the barges are getting their tanks adjusted to favor shields rather than structure hit points. Skiff and Retriever are getting hit points comparable to a battleship, while the others are closer to cruiser level hit points. With the increase to shield hit points, the shield resistance bonus of Exhumers was making the gap between Mining Barges and Exhumers a bit too big, so we reduced the bonus from 7.5% per level to 5% per level. Here are the new total hit point and EHP numbers:
    Ship Total Hit Points EHP
    Hulk 6000 8713
    Covetor 4500 5771
    Mackinaw 8000 11625
    Retriever 6000 7691
    Skiff 19625 29091
    Procurer 18000 23252
    Cargo

    All the barges are getting most of their storage capacity moved from the cargo hold to a new ore hold. This allows us to give them substantial storage capacity for their mined ore without invalidating Industrial ships in the process. Retriever and Mackinaw being the storage barges, will now be able to store more ore than a jet can. Covetor and Hulk are meant to be used in a group, so while they have the highest mining output, they also have the smallest ore bays. The reduction of the cargo holds does have an unfortunate side effect for miners; there is much less space for mining crystals. We alleviated this slightly by cutting the volume of mining crystals in half, but it is now something that miners have to plan for before they go mining.
    Here are the new cargo numbers. The spare crystal sets numbers assumes that you leave 50m3 of space free (you need at least 25m3 free to be able to switch crystals). Again, the numbers assume perfect skills, implants and fleet bonuses.
    Ship Ore hold Mining cycles Cargo hold Spare crystal sets
    Hulk 8500 1 350 4
    Covetor 7000 1 350 4
    Mackinaw 35000 6 450 10
    Retriever 27500 5 450 10
    Skiff 15000 3 350 12
    Procurer 12000 2 350 12
    End

    Finally, we reduced the skill requirements of Mining Barges and Exhumers. Mining Barges now require Mining Barge level I and Astrogeology level III. Exhumers now require Mining Barge level V and Exhumers level I. Hopefully these changes will benefit the mining profession in EVE. They might not make it any more exciting, but at least miners will have to make some meaningful decisions before they undock.


    original link

  2. #2
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    Awesome. Oh wait, no it's not.

  3. #3
    RoemySchneider's Avatar
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    procurer/skiff 90m signature.... pmuch invulnerable to blop-bridging bombing runs 8[

  4. #4
    Marlona Sky's Avatar
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    I don't mind if mining ships have really good tanks as long as their agility is utter shit. Currently the best defense for mining is making sure you are in warp before an enemy lands in the belt with you. So why bother with a defense fleet at all?

    Give them great tanks, but make them regret not having other ships there to protect it. Also I don't care about those of you who don't want to baby sit miners.

  5. #5
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    Ganking barges is literally shooting fish in a barrel. Except transpose fish for ships and barrel for space.

    A moderate change imo and one that still requires a choice between convenience/yield and risk. I love sky high mineral prices as much as the next man, but even I can admit ganking 300m ships in a T1 BC is a little out of whack.

    ps. If mining wasn't so piss dull then it would be a reasonable expectation of them to be at the keyboard at all times ready to warp as soon as someone appears. As it is, it isn't.

  6. #6
    Madner Kami's Avatar
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    The blog implies it, but I really want the answer spelled out:

    Does the mining output automagically appear in the ore hold?

  7. #7
    Donor Mike deVoid's Avatar
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    CSM summit notes say yes
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  8. #8
    Madner Kami's Avatar
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    Thank you.

  9. #9
    Donor Verite Rendition's Avatar
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    Does anyone have the math for how the current tank & EHP of the Hulk compare to the new stats? I'm curious if they've left the Hulk intact enough to tank in 0.0 with good fittings.
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoemySchneider View Post
    procurer/skiff 90m signature.... pmuch invulnerable to blop-bridging bombing runs 8[
    i've heard you can also fit torpedos and target painters on bombers.

    not like you'd ever login to do that but still.

  11. #11

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    Covetor out-mines everything except a hulk. Tears will be glorious
    Dirk Culliford

  12. #12

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    that mackinaw bpo backbone.

  13. #13
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    I think I will buy either a Mackinaw or Retriever for semi-afking in hi sec. I like those changes and can't wait for the ORE frigate as well.
    nevar forget

  14. #14
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Is this in 1.2?

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    http://failheap-challenge.com/showth...es-Inferno-1-2
    Mining Barges and Exhumers are getting the "tiericide" treatment where roles within a ship class are favored over linear progression.
    ...
    Yus

  16. #16
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Thank you

  17. #17

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    But the Navitas et al aren't being changed yet?

  18. #18
    Lady Spank's Avatar
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    Winter

    [–]bam_strokerCaldari 6 points 18 hours ago
    Your command of deliberate, convincingly bad English is amazing.

  19. #19
    Amanto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk View Post
    Covetor out-mines everything except a hulk.
    that is the entire point of the rebalancing
    they have roles now




    posted from my htc sensation using tapatalk
    a shining beacon of quality posting in a sea of awful posting

  20. #20
    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Is this in 1.2?
    Wednesday m8
    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

    "You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."

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