[Devblog] CSM Meeting Minutes - Summer 2012

[Daneel Trevize]

It is all about the skimish links. If the smaller gang has more range and speed, they can succeed against a larger force's lighter faster ships while avoiding the rest, even if they're originally the same hulls. Only the armour and shield tanking links scale in a more direct manner, positioning doesn't.

Actually in Tarm's direct comparison, with the >2x effective RR from maxed links, a 1 OGB is in some ways at parity already with just 1 RR fielded (not considering the 1 logi being shot/jammed), and with more than that, they half the number of pilots that need to be in logi ships to provide x RR, thus allowing the smaller gang to bring more dps/tackle/whatever without tradeoff. They don't even need to be pilots that are able to fly logi either, so the OGB's SP help out gangs of newer pilots more.

[Davion Falcon]

The argument that off-grid boosters are more beneficial to small gangs is kind of ridiculous, for one very simple, very obvious reason. The opportunity cost of using an off-grid booster will always be greater for the smaller force, and the gain will always be equal to that of the force.

If a gang of 10 uses one member for an off-grid booster, they lose 10% of their potential DPS/tacking/logistics/whatever.

A gang of 20 will only lose 5%.

A gang of 50 will only lose 2%.

How does this ever benefit the small gang?

This is true if the off-grid booster is a fully capable combat pilot main.

The opportunity cost here is of an account+client running with all the potential distractions it can have, not a fielded DPS ship. Now if the Alliance Tournament had some rule in the 6v6 or 12v12s where they could "field" an offgrid booster at the expense of having less ships on the field itself your math would be true.

[Resi]

Yo dog I heard you like EVE so I alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts alts

[Eshnala]

And what is the problem with alts?

[Resi]

Alts aren't bad, game-play that relies on alts is.

[Zeekar]

Alts aren't bad, game-play that relies on alts is.

You can delete eve then.

[Jarnis]

Alts aren't bad, game-play that relies on alts is.

Buffbots have been a problem in every MMO where "giving bonuses to a larger group" has been allocated as a special ability of specialized character/ship/build. (In case you are unfamiliar with the term, Buffbot = alternate character, usually on a separate account, present only to distribute buffs and otherwise being inactive - usually "okay" by crappy MMO devs as they tend to drive people to opening secondary accounts)

WoW (eek) fixed it by simply distributing all "buffs" across all participating classes with plenty of redundancy so as long as you had a diverse mix, you had them "for free". Some similar solution could fix it also for EVE, tho I'm too lazy to dream up a design suggestion right now.

[Eshnala]

Alts aren't bad, game-play that relies on alts is.

You might aswell delete all supercaps (wich i would love to see), trading chars, miners, industry characters, freighters, scouts and some other stuff i cant think of yet.

EvE is a game tailored to have alts and lots of them, taking that as an argument why off-grid-boosting is bad is just plain retarded tbh.

[root]

Alts aren't bad, game-play that relies on alts is.

You might aswell delete all supercaps (wich i would love to see), trading chars, miners, industry characters, freighters, scouts and some other stuff i cant think of yet.

There are alot of people mining,traidem haul with their main.
No one gets in an offgrid booster and just sits there.
Do you login a supercap, get in on the battlefield and then switch back to your other char and leave the supercap semi-afk?

[Zeekar]

You would be surprised how often that does the trick.

[jonesbones]

Do you login a supercap, get in on the battlefield and then switch back to your other char and leave the supercap semi-afk?

LOL you think supers spend time on battlefields.

Let Supers dock.
Get rid of offgrid links.
Jones Bones for El "Guapo" Presidente!

[Ted Breakers]

Alts aren't bad, game-play that relies on alts is.

You might aswell delete all supercaps (wich i would love to see), trading chars, miners, industry characters, freighters, scouts and some other stuff i cant think of yet.

EvE is a game tailored to have alts and lots of them, taking that as an argument why off-grid-boosting is bad is just plain retarded tbh.

This.

Really idgi only logic i can find is people calling for links on grid are either in ze blob or roamers hoping to find rorqs in belts (which would be awesome :P)

[Resi]

I don't get it either, in fact we should have off grid logistics and recons to further help small gangs, as the blob would be too stupid to use them.

[Warmenhoven]

I don't get it either, in fact we should have off grid logistics and recons to further help small gangs, as the blob would be too stupid to use them.

logic fail

[Mike deVoid]

I guess I'll be the first to post 'woosh' then

[Tarminic]

Just throwing a few ideas out there. What if we did one of the following:

1. Remove the ability for a link to be used above the squad level
2. Remove offgrid boosting entirely, remove the ability for links to be used above the squad level
3. Remove the ability for offgrid links to be used above the squad level

[Marlona Sky]

Remove the ability for a link to be used above the squad level

At what point are you better off just bringing another standard ship as opposed to a link ship?

Not saying your idea is bad, just wondering if that would kill off link ships completely which I don't want to see.

[jonesbones]

I remember when nano gangs used to actually be led by linked/mindlinked/snaked Claymores. ::bittervet::

[Marlona Sky]

I remember when nano gangs used to actually be led by linked/mindlinked/snaked Claymores. ::bittervet::

Ha! That was my ship and play style back in Tri mk1. Good times.

[PXLIV]

Just throwing a few ideas out there. What if we did one of the following:

1. Remove the ability for a link to be used above the squad level
2. Remove offgrid boosting entirely, remove the ability for links to be used above the squad level
3. Remove the ability for offgrid links to be used above the squad level

I quite like number 1.

Though yeah, you do run into the danger of killing off link ships, if people are too addicted to blobbing the shit out of things.