So the sarcophagus just had some dead mummy it in the whole time? Why was everyone so freaked out, who killed everyone on the boat, and what made Beckett change his mind about it?
TV Tropes covered it:
Spoiler:
Because Beckett specifically tells the player that anyone who opens it is going to have a very, very bad day, not that opening it will unleash an antediluvian. Consider: Beckett doesn't believe in Gehenna, and there is no antediluvian in the sarcophagus. This means that the only reason for him to freak out at you like he does is that, while examining the sarcophagus, he discovered what was really inside it, and he's warning you because he considers you a friend. The choice isn't about what to do with LaCroix, it's about whether or not you heed Beckett's advice. Beckett is, after all, one of only two people you can actually trust, and if opening the box would mean Gehenna, he'd have told you that. He's vague because once he discovers what's in the box, he's smart enough to see what's really going on and wants you to let LaCroix see it through to the end, so he won't chance that you're loyal to LaCroix and possibly give up the secret.
So the sarcophagus just had some dead mummy it in the whole time? Why was everyone so freaked out, who killed everyone on the boat, and what made Beckett change his mind about it?
Endgame spoilers:
Spoiler:
Well, there are a couple of disagreements about that. Let me list the theories:
1) The entire game start to finish is a plot devised by Smiling Jack and his cab driver buddy (who may or may not be Caine) to rid LA of the Camarilla. In this scenario, Messerach (the mummy) is just a decoy, the murders on the boat were done by Jack and the explosives ensure the Anarchs take back their city.
2) Similar to before, except it was orchestrated by an obscure character from the lore, who in this case is thought to be the cabbie. The character in question is a machiavellian older generation (not antediluvian or comparable, though) Malkavian who's insanity manifests as the sincere belief that he is Caine. All the other details are the same. To be honest, I think this theory is a major stretch, mostly because the creators have made it very clear that the cabbie IS, in fact, Caine. This theory was popularized by fans who didn't think Caine's appearance was "canon" enough, or true to the lore. On the other hand, the game is set in 2004, which would be in the Final Nights, so antediluvians and Caine COULD be active.
3) The Diablerie theory. A third divergent theory is that Messerach WAS an old vampire of some renown, and that the Cabbie (Caine or whoever) diablerized him, hence the black tendrils animation at the end. Personally I interpreted the tendrils as a blatant exposition device to point out "He's Caine guys, look at how badass he is with his shadowy aura".
So yeah. Fact is: The game was set up to be Anarch focused, which is why I think the interpretation that everything was planned by Jack and Caine is most likely. The game is not necessarily canon, and doesn't aspire to be. It just wants to tell a cool story in the WoD setting while adhering to the canon as much as possible but not necessarily create new canon material.
So the sarcophagus just had some dead mummy it in the whole time? Why was everyone so freaked out, who killed everyone on the boat, and what made Beckett change his mind about it?
Endgame spoilers:
Spoiler:
Well, there are a couple of disagreements about that. Let me list the theories:
1) The entire game start to finish is a plot devised by Smiling Jack and his cab driver buddy (who may or may not be Caine) to rid LA of the Camarilla. In this scenario, Messerach (the mummy) is just a decoy, the murders on the boat were done by Jack and the explosives ensure the Anarchs take back their city.
2) Similar to before, except it was orchestrated by an obscure character from the lore, who in this case is thought to be the cabbie. The character in question is a machiavellian older generation (not antediluvian or comparable, though) Malkavian who's insanity manifests as the sincere belief that he is Caine. All the other details are the same. To be honest, I think this theory is a major stretch, mostly because the creators have made it very clear that the cabbie IS, in fact, Caine. This theory was popularized by fans who didn't think Caine's appearance was "canon" enough, or true to the lore. On the other hand, the game is set in 2004, which would be in the Final Nights, so antediluvians and Caine COULD be active.
3) The Diablerie theory. A third divergent theory is that Messerach WAS an old vampire of some renown, and that the Cabbie (Caine or whoever) diablerized him, hence the black tendrils animation at the end. Personally I interpreted the tendrils as a blatant exposition device to point out "He's Caine guys, look at how badass he is with his shadowy aura".
So yeah. Fact is: The game was set up to be Anarch focused, which is why I think the interpretation that everything was planned by Jack and Caine is most likely. The game is not necessarily canon, and doesn't aspire to be. It just wants to tell a cool story in the WoD setting while adhering to the canon as much as possible but not necessarily create new canon material.
Spoiler:
I will say that Antediluvians (or anyone Third Generation or higher) won't be active without being noticed, with Caine being one possible exception. The game IS set just before Gehenna and was likely meant to set up for Vampire: Requiem, but whether or not that's true at all we'll never know since Troika's out of business.
So the sarcophagus just had some dead mummy it in the whole time? Why was everyone so freaked out, who killed everyone on the boat, and what made Beckett change his mind about it?
Endgame spoilers:
Spoiler:
Well, there are a couple of disagreements about that. Let me list the theories:
1) The entire game start to finish is a plot devised by Smiling Jack and his cab driver buddy (who may or may not be Caine) to rid LA of the Camarilla. In this scenario, Messerach (the mummy) is just a decoy, the murders on the boat were done by Jack and the explosives ensure the Anarchs take back their city.
2) Similar to before, except it was orchestrated by an obscure character from the lore, who in this case is thought to be the cabbie. The character in question is a machiavellian older generation (not antediluvian or comparable, though) Malkavian who's insanity manifests as the sincere belief that he is Caine. All the other details are the same. To be honest, I think this theory is a major stretch, mostly because the creators have made it very clear that the cabbie IS, in fact, Caine. This theory was popularized by fans who didn't think Caine's appearance was "canon" enough, or true to the lore. On the other hand, the game is set in 2004, which would be in the Final Nights, so antediluvians and Caine COULD be active.
3) The Diablerie theory. A third divergent theory is that Messerach WAS an old vampire of some renown, and that the Cabbie (Caine or whoever) diablerized him, hence the black tendrils animation at the end. Personally I interpreted the tendrils as a blatant exposition device to point out "He's Caine guys, look at how badass he is with his shadowy aura".
So yeah. Fact is: The game was set up to be Anarch focused, which is why I think the interpretation that everything was planned by Jack and Caine is most likely. The game is not necessarily canon, and doesn't aspire to be. It just wants to tell a cool story in the WoD setting while adhering to the canon as much as possible but not necessarily create new canon material.
Spoiler:
I will say that Antediluvians (or anyone Third Generation or higher) won't be active without being noticed, with Caine being one possible exception. The game IS set just before Gehenna and was likely meant to set up for Vampire: Requiem, but whether or not that's true at all we'll never know since Troika's out of business.
True on the Antediluvian part, they couldn't have been involved. You seem to know your lore, but for those who don't: The Final Nights had a major event in 1999(I think?) where a Ravnos Antediluvian woke up from torpor(ancient sleep essentially) and all hell broke loose. Week of Nightmares, I believe it was called. The Antediluvians are so powerful and have such a strong blood connection to their clans (being the primogens, after all) that the entire clan can go insane upon the waking of an antediluvian.
LORE LESSON FOR THOSE INTERESTED :
So, Week of Nightmares, a massive event that caused a considerable shitstorm amongst PnP players from what I gather (I don't know, not one of em) because it affected all sourcebooks and developed the canon lore by a considerable amount.
What happened was a massive development in tensions between Ravnos (a gypsy like Kindred clan) and Kuei-Jin in... India or something I believe. It came to a point that the Ravnos decided to use the Sabbat technique(mentioned in the game as well) of mass-embracing lots of young people and using them as cannon fodder. It's sort of explained that the huge amounts of Final Deaths caused by using totally inexperienced, low generation Ravnos against a cunning and powerful enemy caused MASSIVE resonations that "jolted" their antediluvian awake. Yep, 3rd generation primogen monster deity wakes up in 1999. And he's pissed. Seriously pissed.
He proceeds to kill any Kindred near him as he awakes, and drives a large portion of supernaturally inclined people (psychics etc) utterly insane with the force of his presence. Every supernatural being or sensitive human suffers terrifying nightmares for the entire week, hence the name. He then proceeds to head to India and wages massive war on anyone who comes close, but specifically his own clan members whom he mercilessly devours at any opportunity. He's not happy. The rest of the Ravnos find their chief discipline to grow stronger and stronger over the course of the week, but utterly volatile and unpredictable. They are all pushed to the brink of mental stability by their primogen's thoughts resonating through them.
I think it ends with a massive working together of lots of powerful people to kill him, but the damage has been done. The psychic reverberations echo across every supernatural plane, affecting mages, werewolfs, wraiths and whatever else there is. A blood red star appears in the sky as he dies, and the backlash of his death causes EVERY Ravnos to enter a blood frenzy, killing and diablerizing each other without conscious or rational thought.
End result: Less than a 100 Ravnos survived across the world, none of them of any significant generation. Lots of people and kindred driven mad, never to return to sanity. Everybody is frightened, and Gehenna is definitely here.
Anyway, that's also why you're wrong on the pre-Gehenna thing. The Final Nights ARE Gehenna, just not its theatrical conclusion, but the precursor to it. This much is clearly indicated by the Week of Nightmares. Antediluvians and
Spoiler:
Caine
can be active, and probably are. 2004 is straight in the middle of a rather fucked up time for the kindred, so there is no lore reason why
Spoiler:
Caine
couldn't be involved. Rather, the discussion is mostly about if he WOULD be involved. Which is one of those nerd discussions like "who would win in a fight between superman and batman".
Last edited by Roam; August 10 2012 at 12:51:19 PM.
So the sarcophagus just had some dead mummy it in the whole time? Why was everyone so freaked out, who killed everyone on the boat, and what made Beckett change his mind about it?
Endgame spoilers:
Spoiler:
Well, there are a couple of disagreements about that. Let me list the theories:
1) The entire game start to finish is a plot devised by Smiling Jack and his cab driver buddy (who may or may not be Caine) to rid LA of the Camarilla. In this scenario, Messerach (the mummy) is just a decoy, the murders on the boat were done by Jack and the explosives ensure the Anarchs take back their city.
2) Similar to before, except it was orchestrated by an obscure character from the lore, who in this case is thought to be the cabbie. The character in question is a machiavellian older generation (not antediluvian or comparable, though) Malkavian who's insanity manifests as the sincere belief that he is Caine. All the other details are the same. To be honest, I think this theory is a major stretch, mostly because the creators have made it very clear that the cabbie IS, in fact, Caine. This theory was popularized by fans who didn't think Caine's appearance was "canon" enough, or true to the lore. On the other hand, the game is set in 2004, which would be in the Final Nights, so antediluvians and Caine COULD be active.
3) The Diablerie theory. A third divergent theory is that Messerach WAS an old vampire of some renown, and that the Cabbie (Caine or whoever) diablerized him, hence the black tendrils animation at the end. Personally I interpreted the tendrils as a blatant exposition device to point out "He's Caine guys, look at how badass he is with his shadowy aura".
So yeah. Fact is: The game was set up to be Anarch focused, which is why I think the interpretation that everything was planned by Jack and Caine is most likely. The game is not necessarily canon, and doesn't aspire to be. It just wants to tell a cool story in the WoD setting while adhering to the canon as much as possible but not necessarily create new canon material.
Spoiler:
I will say that Antediluvians (or anyone Third Generation or higher) won't be active without being noticed, with Caine being one possible exception. The game IS set just before Gehenna and was likely meant to set up for Vampire: Requiem, but whether or not that's true at all we'll never know since Troika's out of business.
True on the Antediluvian part, they couldn't have been involved. You seem to know your lore, but for those who don't: The Final Nights had a major event in 1999(I think?) where a Ravnos Antediluvian woke up from torpor(ancient sleep essentially) and all hell broke loose. Week of Nightmares, I believe it was called. The Antediluvians are so powerful and have such a strong blood connection to their clans (being the primogens, after all) that the entire clan can go insane upon the waking of an antediluvian.
LORE LESSON FOR THOSE INTERESTED :
So, Week of Nightmares, a massive event that caused a considerable shitstorm amongst PnP players from what I gather (I don't know, not one of em) because it affected all sourcebooks and developed the canon lore by a considerable amount.
What happened was a massive development in tensions between Ravnos (a gypsy like Kindred clan) and Kuei-Jin in... India or something I believe. It came to a point that the Ravnos decided to use the Sabbat technique(mentioned in the game as well) of mass-embracing lots of young people and using them as cannon fodder. It's sort of explained that the huge amounts of Final Deaths caused by using totally inexperienced, low generation Ravnos against a cunning and powerful enemy caused MASSIVE resonations that "jolted" their antediluvian awake. Yep, 3rd generation primogen monster deity wakes up in 1999. And he's pissed. Seriously pissed.
He proceeds to kill any Kindred near him as he awakes, and drives a large portion of supernaturally inclined people (psychics etc) utterly insane with the force of his presence. Every supernatural being or sensitive human suffers terrifying nightmares for the entire week, hence the name. He then proceeds to head to India and wages massive war on anyone who comes close, but specifically his own clan members whom he mercilessly devours at any opportunity. He's not happy. The rest of the Ravnos find their chief discipline to grow stronger and stronger over the course of the week, but utterly volatile and unpredictable. They are all pushed to the brink of mental stability by their primogen's thoughts resonating through them.
I think it ends with a massive working together of lots of powerful people to kill him, but the damage has been done. The psychic reverberations echo across every supernatural plane, affecting mages, werewolfs, wraiths and whatever else there is. A blood red star appears in the sky as he dies, and the backlash of his death causes EVERY Ravnos to enter a blood frenzy, killing and diablerizing each other without conscious or rational thought.
End result: Less than a 100 Ravnos survived across the world, none of them of any significant generation. Lots of people and kindred driven mad, never to return to sanity. Everybody is frightened, and Gehenna is definitely here.
Anyway, that's also why you're wrong on the pre-Gehenna thing. The Final Nights ARE Gehenna, just not its theatrical conclusion, but the precursor to it. This much is clearly indicated by the Week of Nightmares. Antediluvians and
Spoiler:
Caine
can be active, and probably are. 2004 is straight in the middle of a rather fucked up time for the kindred, so there is no lore reason why
Spoiler:
Caine
couldn't be involved. Rather, the discussion is mostly about if he WOULD be involved. Which is one of those nerd discussions like "who would win in a fight between superman and batman".
I have vague memories of Ravnos being put down during the "Pakistan nuke test".
So the sarcophagus just had some dead mummy it in the whole time? Why was everyone so freaked out, who killed everyone on the boat, and what made Beckett change his mind about it?
Endgame spoilers:
Spoiler:
Well, there are a couple of disagreements about that. Let me list the theories:
1) The entire game start to finish is a plot devised by Smiling Jack and his cab driver buddy (who may or may not be Caine) to rid LA of the Camarilla. In this scenario, Messerach (the mummy) is just a decoy, the murders on the boat were done by Jack and the explosives ensure the Anarchs take back their city.
2) Similar to before, except it was orchestrated by an obscure character from the lore, who in this case is thought to be the cabbie. The character in question is a machiavellian older generation (not antediluvian or comparable, though) Malkavian who's insanity manifests as the sincere belief that he is Caine. All the other details are the same. To be honest, I think this theory is a major stretch, mostly because the creators have made it very clear that the cabbie IS, in fact, Caine. This theory was popularized by fans who didn't think Caine's appearance was "canon" enough, or true to the lore. On the other hand, the game is set in 2004, which would be in the Final Nights, so antediluvians and Caine COULD be active.
3) The Diablerie theory. A third divergent theory is that Messerach WAS an old vampire of some renown, and that the Cabbie (Caine or whoever) diablerized him, hence the black tendrils animation at the end. Personally I interpreted the tendrils as a blatant exposition device to point out "He's Caine guys, look at how badass he is with his shadowy aura".
So yeah. Fact is: The game was set up to be Anarch focused, which is why I think the interpretation that everything was planned by Jack and Caine is most likely. The game is not necessarily canon, and doesn't aspire to be. It just wants to tell a cool story in the WoD setting while adhering to the canon as much as possible but not necessarily create new canon material.
Spoiler:
I will say that Antediluvians (or anyone Third Generation or higher) won't be active without being noticed, with Caine being one possible exception. The game IS set just before Gehenna and was likely meant to set up for Vampire: Requiem, but whether or not that's true at all we'll never know since Troika's out of business.
True on the Antediluvian part, they couldn't have been involved. You seem to know your lore, but for those who don't: The Final Nights had a major event in 1999(I think?) where a Ravnos Antediluvian woke up from torpor(ancient sleep essentially) and all hell broke loose. Week of Nightmares, I believe it was called. The Antediluvians are so powerful and have such a strong blood connection to their clans (being the primogens, after all) that the entire clan can go insane upon the waking of an antediluvian.
LORE LESSON FOR THOSE INTERESTED :
So, Week of Nightmares, a massive event that caused a considerable shitstorm amongst PnP players from what I gather (I don't know, not one of em) because it affected all sourcebooks and developed the canon lore by a considerable amount.
What happened was a massive development in tensions between Ravnos (a gypsy like Kindred clan) and Kuei-Jin in... India or something I believe. It came to a point that the Ravnos decided to use the Sabbat technique(mentioned in the game as well) of mass-embracing lots of young people and using them as cannon fodder. It's sort of explained that the huge amounts of Final Deaths caused by using totally inexperienced, low generation Ravnos against a cunning and powerful enemy caused MASSIVE resonations that "jolted" their antediluvian awake. Yep, 3rd generation primogen monster deity wakes up in 1999. And he's pissed. Seriously pissed.
He proceeds to kill any Kindred near him as he awakes, and drives a large portion of supernaturally inclined people (psychics etc) utterly insane with the force of his presence. Every supernatural being or sensitive human suffers terrifying nightmares for the entire week, hence the name. He then proceeds to head to India and wages massive war on anyone who comes close, but specifically his own clan members whom he mercilessly devours at any opportunity. He's not happy. The rest of the Ravnos find their chief discipline to grow stronger and stronger over the course of the week, but utterly volatile and unpredictable. They are all pushed to the brink of mental stability by their primogen's thoughts resonating through them.
I think it ends with a massive working together of lots of powerful people to kill him, but the damage has been done. The psychic reverberations echo across every supernatural plane, affecting mages, werewolfs, wraiths and whatever else there is. A blood red star appears in the sky as he dies, and the backlash of his death causes EVERY Ravnos to enter a blood frenzy, killing and diablerizing each other without conscious or rational thought.
End result: Less than a 100 Ravnos survived across the world, none of them of any significant generation. Lots of people and kindred driven mad, never to return to sanity. Everybody is frightened, and Gehenna is definitely here.
Anyway, that's also why you're wrong on the pre-Gehenna thing. The Final Nights ARE Gehenna, just not its theatrical conclusion, but the precursor to it. This much is clearly indicated by the Week of Nightmares. Antediluvians and
Spoiler:
Caine
can be active, and probably are. 2004 is straight in the middle of a rather fucked up time for the kindred, so there is no lore reason why
Spoiler:
Caine
couldn't be involved. Rather, the discussion is mostly about if he WOULD be involved. Which is one of those nerd discussions like "who would win in a fight between superman and batman".
I have vague memories of Ravnos being put down during the "Pakistan nuke test".
Think the technocracy had a hand in that nuke . Didn't the sun get him in the end though?
So as for the setup for Requiem, do any powerful vampires (4th generation up) survive? I haven't read up on Requiem so there's this gap between Gehenna and the start of V:R. Since there's 5 clans left I'm assuming 5 antediluvian survived and just from those clans. No more Sabbat, no more Anarch/Camarilla feuding, just a clean slate to write more lore from.
Requiem ist not a The Masquerade sequel.
Requiem is re-imagining The Masquerade, some of the clans and their traits are similar to clans and traits that appeared in the previous line, but there are major (lore) differences.
Requiem made ppl went ballistic Monoclegate/NGE style.
Well that's just terrible. Hell they had a great chance to continue the WoD thing they had going with VtM lore-wise with just a change in mechanics but then they fucked it up.
Also rumor has it CCP will be using Requiem mechanics for the failcascade MMO.
Well that's just terrible. Hell they had a great chance to continue the WoD thing they had going with VtM lore-wise with just a change in mechanics but then they fucked it up.
Also rumor has it CCP will be using Requiem mechanics for the failcascade MMO.
Well that's just terrible. Hell they had a great chance to continue the WoD thing they had going with VtM lore-wise with just a change in mechanics but then they fucked it up.
Also rumor has it CCP will be using Requiem mechanics for the failcascade MMO.
Nope, they announced it as Masquerade.
Didn't they backtrqck on that though? (I hope not).
Well that's just terrible. Hell they had a great chance to continue the WoD thing they had going with VtM lore-wise with just a change in mechanics but then they fucked it up.
Also rumor has it CCP will be using Requiem mechanics for the failcascade MMO.
Nope, they announced it as Masquerade.
Didn't they backtrqck on that though? (I hope not).
:TpTlk:
Well, they kind of backtracked on the whole game, but no, it was VtM as far as any released press on the MMO goes.
Up to Grout's mansion. Having a surprising amount of difficulty not getting my ass kicked, resorted to a combination of guns + dominate, with katana'ing when pressed. Crossbow for bosses.
Maybe just haven't put the right number of points in to combat skills as my early investment was in to speech skills. Had sex with Jeanne at least.
I tried to be cool and all I got was a lousy warning about my sig being too big.
Originally Posted by spasm
beat the game.
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Marder II, IS, PzKpfw III, AMX 40, PzKpfw III/IV, IS-3
. Didn't the sun get him in the end though?
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