ABB - Defense speech

[Lilalaunebör]

Wait, is anyone here actually saying that reading Mein Kampf is wrong?

I dont think so (well, Lall apparently thinks that overexposure even on a professional level leads to assimilation, but id argue that the guy must have had an interest in radical ideas based on his own views in order to want to become a shcolar in that very specific field?)

I know this wont make me popular, but im a german and i have not read nor have i any intention of ever reading MK. I know the gist of it, and im acutely aware of its consequences. Its categorically evil from my vaguely humanistic viewpoint, and i dont feel the need to find out how the devil tries to mindfuck people into doing evil.
Yes, this means i might not recognize similar tactics applied to convincing me of other things, but theres plenty of academic secondary literature about indoctrination/radicalization if im so inclined to learn about it in-depth.

[lubica]

We should burn all the books just in case.

[Frug]

With respect you talk about binaries like "blanket censorship" and "blanket statements" as if they're a bad thing (agreed), yet are apparently quite happy to be completely arbitrarily dismissive of whatever the guy wrote or says as his justification without even being prepared to read/hear it.

That's not a blanket statement, it's an assumption about a particular. Blanket statements covering giant groups of people are either a) rhetorical or exaggerated to make a point or b) literal and usually trivially inaccurate. (Notice I'm making a blanket statement about blanket statements in a rhetorical tone while also leaving in the possibility of a few inconsequential exceptions. )

No one is saying that he has anything meritous to say, or that there is any "truth" nugget size or otherwise in any of it

Actually yes, they are saying that this might be the case and, actually, I agree that not only are there almost definitely nuggets of truth in his ramblings (almost all ramblings, be they paranoid schizophrenia or plain old terrorist fury have seeds of truth that have been twisted in them) but I'll go so far as to admit that there is even the extremely remote possibility of critical points hidden in there that people can learn from. I'm also saying it really, really doesn't look like that is the case based on his actions, the few quotes I've heard, his cute little youtube video, etc. Based on the evidence thus far, there's probably no reason beyond armchair psychological study or morbid curiosity to look into what he's got to say. Combined with a little bit of respect for the victims that leads me not to want to look into it further.

It's like saying a frothing downs syndrome retard might have something to contribute so we shouldn't censor him. He might, but seriously, no, he doesn't.

FWIW I also think ABB is pretty transparent, but I'd rather be allowed to reach that decision myself without being pilloried by someone who has already decided my opinion for me.

It ain't rocket science to see what ABB is going for and why. He's not remotely interesting.

[Ralara]

ice, I understand what u mean

it's why i read mein kampf

[Synapse]

Ugh pro-censorship posting. Nice.

Was it frug who said something like I won't stop you from reading it but I'll look down on you if you do? Really? Social ostracism for reading information is just minor censorship at the base level.

I know you guys all yearn for technocracy where people who are smarter all get to say what is worth reading and burn what isn't, but that day isn't here yet, and you're not that person.

The best defence against bullshit is let everyone read it, and see that 99% of people hate it, the 1% who are wrong will clearly see that everyone else came to another conclusion and reconsider some of their decisions.
The worst defence is to make sure as few read is as possible, so that the believers think "if only others had read this, they would think like I do!" ...followed by doing whatever it takes (see subject of thread) to get others to read it.

Bottom line you may be good at telling people what is worth reading and what isn't, but you have no objective way to say that you're qualified at it. Until that day comes, we have voting and free information and that's how it must work. Yes it's imperfect and no you don't have a better idea.

[Frug]

Ugh pro-censorship posting. Nice.

Was it frug who said something like I won't stop you from reading it but I'll look down on you if you do? Really? Social ostracism for reading information is just minor censorship at the base level.

I'm such a fascist for looking down at someone for something I think is dumb. Quickly, forbid me from my fascist emotions with your opinion and thought patrolling.

You aren't getting the irony in this at all, are you?

I know you guys all yearn for technocracy where people who are smarter all get to say what is worth reading

I'm allowed to say what is worth reading. Right now. No really I'm saying it right now.

and burn what isn't, but that day isn't here yet, and you're not that person.

My god this irony is just so over your head you can't fathom it, can you?

No, but seriously, I apologize for my opinions and will refrain from thinking or expressing such thoughts in the future mister leader.

The only thing worse than censorship is having opinions about people's behavior and then expressing them.

[Synapse]

Ugh pro-censorship posting. Nice.

Was it frug who said something like I won't stop you from reading it but I'll look down on you if you do? Really? Social ostracism for reading information is just minor censorship at the base level.

I'm such a fascist for looking down at someone for something I think is dumb. Quickly, forbid me from my fascist emotions with your opinion and thought patrolling.

You aren't getting the irony in this at all, are you?

I know you guys all yearn for technocracy where people who are smarter all get to say what is worth reading

I'm allowed to say what is worth reading. Right now. No really I'm saying it right now.

and burn what isn't, but that day isn't here yet, and you're not that person.

My god this irony is just so over your head you can't fathom it, can you?

No, but seriously, I apologize for my opinions and will refrain from thinking or expressing such thoughts in the future mister leader.

The only thing worse than censorship is having opinions about people's behavior and then expressing them.

Frug thinks I was to repress his emotions. Huh, when I posted exactly the opposite. Hey frug, go back and find the part where I said you shouldn't express yourself, because you're actually coming up with that yourself.
I did however suggest you not insult and ostracise people based on what they read. You can do that based on what they believe if you like. Then you called me a facist. Can't win with you, can I?

Thanks for posting, Frug. I even read it. Didn't agree, thought you were extrapolating much too far to think I was advocating not expressing your opinion, but I read it.

Edit: also, I get called a facist. Based on a post advocating freedom to read and see whatever you like and make up your own mind. I'm pretty sure that's more in the insult category than the label category for this post isn't it?

[Frug]

Hey frug, go back and find the part where I said you shouldn't express yourself, because you're actually coming up with that yourself.

Ugh pro-censorship posting. Nice.

Was it frug who said something like I won't stop you from reading it but I'll look down on you if you do? Really? Social ostracism for reading information is just minor censorship at the base level.

Censorship is wrong + you are censoring people by expressing your opinions = expressing your opinions is wrong.

Thank you come again.

[Synapse]

Hey frug, go back and find the part where I said you shouldn't express yourself, because you're actually coming up with that yourself.

Ugh pro-censorship posting. Nice.

Was it frug who said something like I won't stop you from reading it but I'll look down on you if you do? Really? Social ostracism for reading information is just minor censorship at the base level.

Censorship is wrong + you are censoring people by expressing your opinions = expressing your opinions is wrong.

Thank you come again.

I wrote ostracism, you wrote expression of opinion.

I'm interested that "Social ostracism" of people translates to you as "disagreeing with people."

Tell me more.

[Losvar]

I might come off as a bit of a cunt by saying this, but most people are complete fucking morons.

I do not believe there will come anything good out of making his manifesto or defense speech easily accessible.
There is a huge amount of racist retards out there that can easily sympathize with some of his points, which might make them sympathize with the guy, which in turn might inspire people to more open racism and even violence.
I'm of course no psychologist, but people are fucking easily manipulated, just look at USA, there are poor people and minorities there voting for republicans for fuck's sake, what makes you think people will be less easily manipulated by this evil cunt?

TL;DR: People are fucking retarded, and a lot of them will sympathize with some of his points, and nothing good will come out of it.

[Skidrowpunk]

just look at USA, there are poor people and minorities there voting for republicans for fuck's sake,

It's stuff like this I just don't understand. I'm not "AMERIKUH YEAAAH" or anything, but was there really a need for the "Look at silly USA"? Dumb people get manipulated in every country, it's just the nature of dumb people.

[Losvar]

just look at USA, there are poor people and minorities there voting for republicans for fuck's sake,

It's stuff like this I just don't understand. I'm not "AMERIKUH YEAAAH" or anything, but was there really a need for the "Look at silly USA"? Dumb people get manipulated in every country, it's just the nature of dumb people.

It was an easy example that can be understood by anyone, you probably wouldn't understand the metaphor if I said "We have retards in Norway that are of an ethnic minority and vote FRP!"
I was only trying to point out how easily people are swayed, and to make it even more clear, I used an example of people going out of their way to fuck themselves, just because they are gullible.
My point is simply that retards might be somewhat easily swayed into sympathizing with the biggest fucking dickwad in Norway since they shot Quisling.

No offense meant, and I don't give half a fuck if you are a bit offended.

[Qui Shon]

just look at USA, there are poor people and minorities there voting for republicans for fuck's sake

Not to defend the gay/gun/bible nutjob politics of good old USA, but that happens everywhere. Our main right wing party (NC) wouldn't be leading our government otherwise. Joe the Plumber exists in my country too, as he does in all others, he's just not quite as common nor quite as thick.

It's stuff like this I just don't understand. I'm not "AMERIKUH YEAAAH" or anything, but was there really a need for the "Look at silly USA"? Dumb people get manipulated in every country, it's just the nature of dumb people.

But it happens more plainly, more visibly, more often, and with dumber tricks in the US.

[Sacul]

Retards can indeed be found anywhere. The immigrant version i like best tho. People flee their country for war or politico reasons come to NL, get a decent living, look at their own country folk also trying to get in and say fuck you scrubs im in i will now vote for the most extreme anti-immigration party around (PVV, Geert Wilders). Allmost 10% of his votes came from immigrants


Ah well

[Rakshasa The Cat]

Before he appeared in court he had been branded by the first psychological report and media as a person with sever paranoid schizophrenia, so sever that he was supposedly unable to function in normal society and social situations.

Instead we got to see a reasonably articulate and well-mannered guy capable of adjusting his behaviour and message on feedback to better suit the audience.

To not broadcast his defence speech is such an obvious fuckup of grand proportions if your goal is to defuse his message.

[Sykes]

I say let him rant away, it helps people realize how much of a loon he is.

You wouldn't believe how many people will actually believe what he says

I wonder though, how many people *already* believe what he says.

I read his manifesto and it was pretty clear to me that the majority of his political beliefs (as opposed to political tactics) were already very widespread.

The Guardian Datablog had this rather neat map of the web links in his manifesto and the interconnections between them, if you want to judge for yourself where he got his politics from.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...nifesto-mapped

My strong impression based on his manifesto is that many of ABB's views would be considered fairly mainstream among the Tea Party supporters and their European equivalents like the EDL or PVV.