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Thread: Verdict on ATX? ("Let's sperge about team quality so hydra can feel relevant" thread)

  1. #101
    Paradox's Avatar
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    Didn't like the UI change, couldn't see the match, don't need to see neckbeards freaking out in the studio except for when Raivi almost passed out. It was a good idea but it needs to be a lot smaller and more space efficient.

    Aside from that probably the best tournament I've seen for a long time, could have done with some better prizes maybe but v. good overall.

  2. #102
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Yes id like new commentators! Keep raivi and kil2, sack the rest (and dont get goonswarm or test members)! Also i dont really want to see their faces during the match!

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Constantine View Post
    On Outbreak/Hydra - sorry but you are literally retarded. They ruined the last tourney with their bullshit and frankly the format is 100x better without them.
    You like to RP, they like to meta-game. These are both valid ways to play the sandbox. Don't discard people that are good at this game just because they don't play your version of the game.

    I am in no way affiliated to any group at the moment, I like to solo pew (mostly badly), but I can recognize value in people. Even in you. Even in Hydra. Even in Outbreak. Even in motherfrakking Fearlessdot that made a most impressive job this year.


    Stop being so obtuse.
    more like, we like to win

    so we won both the unique ships screwing up the final - the metagaming was just a means to an end (winning)

    CCP was angered and banned us next year for it, good riddance

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intigo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Constantine View Post
    On Outbreak/Hydra - sorry but you are literally retarded. They ruined the last tourney with their bullshit and frankly the format is 100x better without them.
    You like to RP, they like to meta-game. These are both valid ways to play the sandbox. Don't discard people that are good at this game just because they don't play your version of the game.

    I am in no way affiliated to any group at the moment, I like to solo pew (mostly badly), but I can recognize value in people. Even in you. Even in Hydra. Even in Outbreak. Even in motherfrakking Fearlessdot that made a most impressive job this year.


    Stop being so obtuse.
    more like, we like to win

    so we won both the unique ships screwing up the final - the metagaming was just a means to an end (winning)

    CCP was angered and banned us next year for it, good riddance
    But you were banned for being dumb.

  5. #105
    SupaflyTNT's Avatar
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    Id love to go up against Hydra/Outbreak because <3

    (we keep Knifee though)

  6. #106

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    I'm gonna leak some stuff if anyone still cares

    http://i.imgur.com/oxyk6.png (Hydra forum)
      Spoiler:


    From: Admiral Goberius
    To: Faffywaffy
    INBOX
    Yeah sorry the screenshot isnt very clear.

    Guy from VoC was saying how they never did any 12v12 testing.

    Basically bunch of luckers that ended up in the weak bracket and then fought an offlined tengu vargur team in the finals.

    Real final of this tourney imo was Darkside vs PL, especially due to all the efforts both teams put into spying one another.

    We decided to hold out on what we considered out best setup until the game against you guys. Shamis also took a balsy gamble and refitted for 10x gallente jammers. But it paid off.

    See you guys next year o7 Hopefully we can meet in finals instead.

    PS: and for the love of god dont make so many bad posts on forum man :3


    I feel kinda flattered. We did have several people in the alliance put a huge amount of effort into the AT, but we didnt accomplish nearly as much as we should have.
    First it was like 2 hours+ everytime to get everyone in the right wormhole set up with right fits etc. Then it was 2hours+ to get fucking 24 duders together so we could properly test 12 vs. 12.
    Lesson for next year (if we care to participate) is p much to organize that shit better and more delegation so people dont burn out.

    Regarding everyone shitting on Faffy for his eve-o posting - his only fault is that he basically ~srsposted~ on eve-o forums (lol) every time he had some issue, instead of trying to contact a dev or GM.

  7. #107

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    hahahahaha oh poor gobs


    Quote Originally Posted by n0th View Post
    Regarding everyone shitting on Faffy for his eve-o posting - his only fault is that he basically ~srsposted~ on eve-o forums (lol) every time he had some issue, instead of trying to contact a dev or GM.
    yeah man he should like

    petition or send an email

    that works so well for getting official responses?!

    one gives you a response that is 'invalid' and the other is ignored twice



    edit: also, I am pretty disappointed that Gobbins is leaking our HIGH SECURITY spaceship forum
    Last edited by Intigo; July 30 2012 at 09:30:36 AM.

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    You like to RP, they like to meta-game. These are both valid ways to play the sandbox. Don't discard people that are good at this game just because they don't play your version of the game.
    The problem is that meta-gaming is most likely fine until the final product looks like shit. Before CCP started getting major coverage/sponsors for the tourney, and a host of commercial interest. And while some of the players may say something like "But this is the type of stuff that makes it so Edgy and unique, and why wouldn't people want to stay involved in stuff like this?!"...

    The simple answer is that they don't have to. A bad performance by a group in the alliance tourney makes it less likely that people will watch it the next year; and that means less advertising strength. And when you're effectively talking about corporate sponsorship, numbers trump everything. Less sponsorship means more CCP has to kick out to keep things, at a minimum, the way it was the year previous. If they have more grand plans, then that's even more money that has to be kicked forward.

    So, what you have is a tournament that, regardless of intent, had the potential to drive away a specific percentage of the viewership. That, in turn, could have impacted CCP's bottom line. When you get to that point, those decisions are sorted via numerical calculations instead of drawings of the bleeding edge and where you sit on it.


    I think this years AT was actually pretty good; there was enough variation on the theme, and having a relative unknown get into the finals is something I consider to be huge. (CCP probably does as well; the david vs goliath effect on the potential subscribers has its own value in drawing in new players.) I really don't see any point in arguing of the what if's and could-have-beens. I also think any sort of commentary to the tune of "Well, you didn't *really* win because you didn't have to play up against X or Y." is completely off the mark. The teams that made it to the finals were all very competitive, and at the top of their game. Some were daring, some played it safe; but I think anyone construing that those teams don't deserve the accolades they've received are simply crying sour grapes.

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by n0th View Post
    I'm gonna leak some stuff if anyone still cares

    http://i.imgur.com/oxyk6.png (Hydra forum)
      Spoiler:


    From: Admiral Goberius
    To: Faffywaffy
    INBOX
    Yeah sorry the screenshot isnt very clear.

    Guy from VoC was saying how they never did any 12v12 testing.

    Basically bunch of luckers that ended up in the weak bracket and then fought an offlined tengu vargur team in the finals.

    Real final of this tourney imo was Darkside vs PL, especially due to all the efforts both teams put into spying one another.

    We decided to hold out on what we considered out best setup until the game against you guys. Shamis also took a balsy gamble and refitted for 10x gallente jammers. But it paid off.

    See you guys next year o7 Hopefully we can meet in finals instead.

    PS: and for the love of god dont make so many bad posts on forum man :3


    I feel kinda flattered. We did have several people in the alliance put a huge amount of effort into the AT, but we didnt accomplish nearly as much as we should have.
    First it was like 2 hours+ everytime to get everyone in the right wormhole set up with right fits etc. Then it was 2hours+ to get fucking 24 duders together so we could properly test 12 vs. 12.
    Lesson for next year (if we care to participate) is p much to organize that shit better and more delegation so people dont burn out.

    Regarding everyone shitting on Faffy for his eve-o posting - his only fault is that he basically ~srsposted~ on eve-o forums (lol) every time he had some issue, instead of trying to contact a dev or GM.
    This is a good lesson for me.

    In light of all the mutual effort we put into out-testing and out-spying each other, especially in the last week, I though faffy deserved to know the reason he had lost and the extend of the gamble we took to beat darkside. Because if I were in his place I would definitively want to know.

    At the end of the pl vs darkside match I asked shamis to talk to faffy, he literally said "fuck faffy". So I sent him the PM you see above, just to see it leaked as some kind of smug "fuck PL" post. I dont mind the embarassment but having to admit the old man was right is never a good thing.


    Anyways let me help you out with a few more things you can be smug about:

    1. darkside has been tryharding at the AT for years and is the only alliance in eve to put so much effort into it and never achieve jack (fact)

    2. the only thing you could be proud of, beating PL, was undone this year (your record vs PL is now 2 loss 1 win)

    3. you made a non ironic post asking CCP to ban spying on sisi
    3b. you then tried to use spies yourself, the whole week we tested widows with your alt chasing us you never caught a single test, then you lost to the very setup you failed to scout

    4. after getting annihilated you try to salvage some pride by leaking a pm from the one guy who thought you deserved a bit of respect

    5. btw thanks again for the officer loot :3

  10. #110
    filingo's Avatar
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    one does not throw back a nod of respect from snr gobbins, number one "spy with your main" eve online pvper
    No longer Deleting all your posts erryday due to butthurt
    usually pink or pinkest flamingo in other games


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  11. #111
    Smuggo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    nerds
    Fukken meta gaming mega nerds.

    Put in all this effort and practice but still shit at spaceships.

  12. #112
    Amantus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    nerds
    MAX damage posting

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoKiPP View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by joe space View Post
    i came to that conclusion by, you know, watching the tourney.
    Again you reiterating your terrible conclusion proves bitterness of getting kicked from this tournament or I got trolled pretty good.
    Joe's involvement in the ATX effort was pretty minimal and I think he's relatively indifferent about the Hydra ban. A lot of Hydra is pretty mad about it but I wouldn't count him as one.

    Quote Originally Posted by n0th View Post
    I'm gonna leak some stuff if anyone still cares

    http://i.imgur.com/oxyk6.png (Hydra forum)
      Spoiler:


    From: Admiral Goberius
    To: Faffywaffy
    INBOX
    Yeah sorry the screenshot isnt very clear.

    Guy from VoC was saying how they never did any 12v12 testing.

    Basically bunch of luckers that ended up in the weak bracket and then fought an offlined tengu vargur team in the finals.

    Real final of this tourney imo was Darkside vs PL, especially due to all the efforts both teams put into spying one another.

    We decided to hold out on what we considered out best setup until the game against you guys. Shamis also took a balsy gamble and refitted for 10x gallente jammers. But it paid off.

    See you guys next year o7 Hopefully we can meet in finals instead.

    PS: and for the love of god dont make so many bad posts on forum man :3


    I feel kinda flattered.
    As far as Joe's thought's on you guys, I don't think many others in Hydra share his conclusions that DS is significantly better than PL. Going in we thought you'd be a pretty good team but weaker than last year with the loss of Creamster and Madmax. Maybe he's a fan though : O

    The biggest surprise this year for me was PL, it was really their tournament to lose considering the effort they put in and the intel they had on their opponents. I'm not sure if they're overrated (losing 6 matches with a/b teams in past 2 ATs but still considered very good by all), became weaker (different person leading this year) or if other teams have caught up. It's probably a combination of all 3 and I think maybe they peaked in AT8? Not sure what happened with them.

    They certainly had a lot of influence in setting the trends this year. Many other teams brought similar setups to theirs and tried to mimic their approach to the AT format. Having said that I didn't see any team or setup that made me think "that looks like it could have given us difficulty". I think most people will write that statement off as "oh typical thing to say from someone in Hydra" but from speaking a lot to gobbins and bh while playing dota 2 our approaches to the changed ATX format were very different in terms of what we thought would be the most effective. It would've been interesting to see the results of the clash in styles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Constantine View Post
    On Outbreak/Hydra - sorry but you are literally retarded. They ruined the last tourney with their bullshit and frankly the format is 100x better without them.
    You like to RP, they like to meta-game. These are both valid ways to play the sandbox. Don't discard people that are good at this game just because they don't play your version of the game.

    I am in no way affiliated to any group at the moment, I like to solo pew (mostly badly), but I can recognize value in people. Even in you. Even in Hydra. Even in Outbreak. Even in motherfrakking Fearlessdot that made a most impressive job this year.


    Stop being so obtuse.
    As far as Hydra enjoying the metagame, I think that's a misunderstanding. We've never done the whole spying, deal making and social manipulation (i.e. war and politics propaganda) thing on TQ. The thing is that in the AT it becomes a part of the game as soon as one group decides to use these tools. You are automatically at a disadvantage if you aren't playing the same game. So just like having an ECM setup when it's something we don't use on TQ we also play the metagame when it comes to AT. It's less about how we like to play and more about giving yourself the best chance to win.

    Anyway, I think the best thing this year was the overlay. You could tell a lot of what was happening in the e-war battle which is a huge part of every match. Also, I think the tournament was quite competitive with many more teams this year on the same level than in previous years. Vargurs, Widows and Vindis were cool to see even though they really overshadowed the support that was left a bit unsung in those setups. Congrats to both VoC and HUN on their performances btw I think you both surprised everyone.
    Last edited by Duncan; July 30 2012 at 08:26:52 PM.

  14. #114

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    PL: Too much DayZ.

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
    The biggest surprise this year for me was PL, it was really their tournament to lose considering the effort they put in and the intel they had on their opponents. I'm not sure if they're overrated (losing 6 matches with a/b teams in past 2 ATs but still considered very good by all), became weaker (different person leading this year) or if other teams have caught up. It's probably a combination of all 3 and I think maybe they peaked in AT8? Not sure what happened with them.
    This is from my experience testing and the people in power might have a different view, but I think one reason could be a tendency for us to overplay the meta game. A lot of effort is put into predicting the final day and picking setups based around what we believe our opponents will bring. Inevitably this means that sometimes we come up against a rock beating our scissors or bring a never fielded team based on what we think it will beat. Having a lot of setups might be a liability compared to what HUN did with their Vargur variations, where they had probably tested the shit out of that one and knew how to run it.

    The trend setting also plays a part and not only when it's us doing it. Plenty of teams ended up fielding Vindicator based setups without our influence and everything we had in store for the final day would have beaten those. However, a strong setup that you know how to fly will beat a setup that you pick specifically to counter something else most of the time.

    In hindsight, we probably brought out the Widow team one match too soon, but we also had to beat DarkSide with something. In the end we gambled and lost.

  16. #116

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    Like different kinds of voting systems can produce different outcomes for elections for the 'will of the people', the differing tournament rules can also produce different outcomes. Every kind of tournament ruleset has pathologies (e.g. round robin w/ a point system, can mean the strongest team losing if all other teams are almost equally good, but thats almost never the case for eve teams) and elimination matches on the final day can mean what happened this year -- the two "strongest" teams eliminating one with the final winner being from an easy bracket.

    Personally, I'm sad we didn't get to use our Adrestia+Vangel setup for the final but overall quite happy we dumpstered darkside.

  17. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by n0th View Post
    I'm gonna leak some stuff if anyone still cares

    http://i.imgur.com/oxyk6.png (Hydra forum)
      Spoiler:


    From: Admiral Goberius
    To: Faffywaffy
    INBOX
    Yeah sorry the screenshot isnt very clear.

    Guy from VoC was saying how they never did any 12v12 testing.

    Basically bunch of luckers that ended up in the weak bracket and then fought an offlined tengu vargur team in the finals.

    Real final of this tourney imo was Darkside vs PL, especially due to all the efforts both teams put into spying one another.

    We decided to hold out on what we considered out best setup until the game against you guys. Shamis also took a balsy gamble and refitted for 10x gallente jammers. But it paid off.

    See you guys next year o7 Hopefully we can meet in finals instead.

    PS: and for the love of god dont make so many bad posts on forum man :3


    I feel kinda flattered. We did have several people in the alliance put a huge amount of effort into the AT, but we didnt accomplish nearly as much as we should have.
    First it was like 2 hours+ everytime to get everyone in the right wormhole set up with right fits etc. Then it was 2hours+ to get fucking 24 duders together so we could properly test 12 vs. 12.
    Lesson for next year (if we care to participate) is p much to organize that shit better and more delegation so people dont burn out.

    Regarding everyone shitting on Faffy for his eve-o posting - his only fault is that he basically ~srsposted~ on eve-o forums (lol) every time he had some issue, instead of trying to contact a dev or GM.
    VoC essentially got through the entire tourney without gaining much recognition and now are being passed off as some 'luckers' who faced weak teams? (Darkside, Rote Kapelle, Mildly I., Exodus, HUN)

    I suppose if we had instead beaten PL in the final Mr. Gobbins would no doubt be able to come up with some marvelous excuse designed to downplay or discredit us.

  18. #118
    Armeggeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rengas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by n0th View Post
    I'm gonna leak some stuff if anyone still cares

    http://i.imgur.com/oxyk6.png (Hydra forum)
      Spoiler:


    From: Admiral Goberius
    To: Faffywaffy
    INBOX
    Yeah sorry the screenshot isnt very clear.

    Guy from VoC was saying how they never did any 12v12 testing.

    Basically bunch of luckers that ended up in the weak bracket and then fought an offlined tengu vargur team in the finals.

    Real final of this tourney imo was Darkside vs PL, especially due to all the efforts both teams put into spying one another.

    We decided to hold out on what we considered out best setup until the game against you guys. Shamis also took a balsy gamble and refitted for 10x gallente jammers. But it paid off.

    See you guys next year o7 Hopefully we can meet in finals instead.

    PS: and for the love of god dont make so many bad posts on forum man :3


    I feel kinda flattered. We did have several people in the alliance put a huge amount of effort into the AT, but we didnt accomplish nearly as much as we should have.
    First it was like 2 hours+ everytime to get everyone in the right wormhole set up with right fits etc. Then it was 2hours+ to get fucking 24 duders together so we could properly test 12 vs. 12.
    Lesson for next year (if we care to participate) is p much to organize that shit better and more delegation so people dont burn out.

    Regarding everyone shitting on Faffy for his eve-o posting - his only fault is that he basically ~srsposted~ on eve-o forums (lol) every time he had some issue, instead of trying to contact a dev or GM.
    VoC essentially got through the entire tourney without gaining much recognition and now are being passed off as some 'luckers' who faced weak teams? (Darkside, Rote Kapelle, Mildly I., Exodus, HUN)

    I suppose if we had instead beaten PL in the final Mr. Gobbins would no doubt be able to come up with some marvelous excuse designed to downplay or discredit us.
    VoC was probably the best team in the tourny tbh. PL had a few hick-ups during matches that were obvious but the team they were fighting didn't take advantage of. Darkside , allthough good didnt preform as well as they did last year. The best match (probably biased) to me was Exodus. Vs. VoC . probably the most skill intensive match ,and the few fuck ups on our end and VoC's piloting skill won the match for them.

    Allot of the darkhorse teams didnt get enough credit as they should have TBH. And seriously the commentators did a horrible job trying to figure out who we were, they're intel on a few alliances was beyond terrible. Found it funny when laz said we lived in syndicate and fought agony everyday , like really... atleast zastrow got close and said we lived near curse at the time. Glad verge won , you guys have some fame on TQ and most of the real pvpers respect you. Cant imagine the ammount of crap that would of spewed from mouths if we won. We allready got called metagamers for our match against DT, when it was pure luck.

    Edit: After watching over the commentary again , Kil2 seemed to have a big issue with us. And the studio talk before and after matches for allot of the darkhorse teams was fucking stupid. We got placed behind EvE fonts and U.I lol
    Last edited by Armeggeda; July 31 2012 at 11:40:42 PM.

    To Find us you have to be smart.
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  19. #119

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    a lot*

    everyone from Exodus except you are cool dudes

  20. #120
    ry ry's Avatar
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    Intigo, you are my favourite terminal bitter.

    I swear to god I cannot tell if you are angry as fuck at everything and everybody, or a masterful shitposter extrodinaire.

    <3

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