Meta module prices are making many T2 modules worthless.

[Boltorano]

About two years ago, CCP tweaked the drop rates on meta modules in missions, drastically increasing their drop rate. Since then, the prices of meta 1-4 "named" modules have been slowly falling. The first mod I saw significantly effected by this was the Y-T8 (now Experimental) 10MN MWDs, but pretty much everything, including meta 4 guns has been becoming more and more affordable.

In many cases, where a meta 4 module has the exact same stats (as well as lower fitting requirements), there is little to no reason to use the T2 version anymore. This is especially true for mid slot modules, such as sensor boosters, target painters, and tracking disruptors, just to name a few. Even a few years ago, the rarity and demand for meta 4 versions of modules made them MUCH less affordable than the T2 counterpart, giving most people a good reason to train for the T2 version. Now in many cases, that just isn't true.

Has anyone else out there noticed this / is concerned by it?

[prometheus]

Most T2 mods other than weapons have been in need of a boost or something for ages.
For example; there has never been a reason to fit a T2 MWD over any named one.

[Sponk]

In some cases, the meta-4 item is easier to fit, but just as good as the T2 version.

Except because of overheating, it's actually better, in addition to being easier to fit.

IMO, more of the meta modules should be like damage controls: not as good as T2, but much easier to fit, with the various meta levels being a trade-off between fitting and power.

[Boltorano]

In some cases, the meta-4 item is easier to fit, but just as good as the T2 version.

Except because of overheating, it's actually better, in addition to being easier to fit.

That's basically what I was trying to say in the OP.

IMO, more of the meta modules should be like damage controls: not as good as T2, but much easier to fit, with the various meta levels being a trade-off between fitting and power.

I'd be fine with this, but would it really matter if they still dropped so often that the meta 4 versions all cost 100k each? Because that's where we're heading already.

[Ophichius]

Noticed it, not particularly concerned by it. It may be by design to some extent. Less demand for some T2 modules = lower pressure on tech bottleneck = theoretically somewhat cheaper T2 prices.

Seeing as CCP's not actually going to undo the retarded tech change any time soon, I see reducing the demand for tech as a Good Thing.

-O

[Cue1*]

Noticed it, not particularly concerned by it. It may be by design to some extent. Less demand for some T2 modules = lower pressure on tech bottleneck = theoretically somewhat cheaper T2 prices.

Seeing as CCP's not actually going to undo the retarded tech change any time soon, I see reducing the demand for tech as a Good Thing.

-O

This TBH.

[Smuggo]

Most T2 mods other than weapons have been in need of a boost or something for ages.
For example; there has never been a reason to fit a T2 MWD over any named one.

A T2 MWD has a lower cap penalty than a named MWD at the expense of higher fitting and great cap use when active, so IMO it can make sense to fit on a ship that would benefit from higher base cap but only uses its MWD occasionally.

[Alain Colcer]

Noticed it, not particularly concerned by it. It may be by design to some extent. Less demand for some T2 modules = lower pressure on tech bottleneck = theoretically somewhat cheaper T2 prices.

Seeing as CCP's not actually going to undo the retarded tech change any time soon, I see reducing the demand for tech as a Good Thing.

-O

+1000

the requirement to bring t2 or nothing in order to stay competitive puts too much pressure

Having meta items available, albeit at a slightly lower performance, provides a lot of variation in the fitting styles.

There is however one thing that still nags me quite a lot, t2 weapons and t2 drones, specialization unlocks these groups, but the additional % to damage can only be used on the t2 versions.....it would be nice if the specialization skills applied equally to t1, meta and t2.

[Ophichius]

I'm actually okay with specialization only affecting T2. It means there's a good reason to pay the higher fitting costs. That said, I'd love to see T2 ammo loadable in faction/officer weaponry.

-O

[Alain Colcer]

Specialization skills affecting only the t2 weapons means there is absolutely no reason to bring meta guns with faction ammo, its always better to use t2 version.

If you had a higher damage multiplier on the t2 weaponry, but your specialization skills could still improve the t1 and meta items (albeit with worse damage multiplier), you could have the choice to balance fittings one way or another. Currently its a no brainer and most newbies are told to train t2 weapons right off the bat.

[whispous]

CCP should just make good meta look like the scrams and webs rare again to raise the price. whoever decided "RARE LOOT FOR ALL!" was a mega massive class A retard

[prometheus]

Most T2 mods other than weapons have been in need of a boost or something for ages.
For example; there has never been a reason to fit a T2 MWD over any named one.

A T2 MWD has a lower cap penalty than a named MWD at the expense of higher fitting and great cap use when active, so IMO it can make sense to fit on a ship that would benefit from higher base cap but only uses its MWD occasionally.

Yea, in the case where I *could fit t2, I fit named for ships that MWD around alot, and T2 for ones that use a lot of cap.

[Qwert]

The best m4/T2 paradigm is the one seen for disruptors and guns. T2 is unequivocally the BEST in some way (range and T2 ammo/skills), but at the expense of higher fitting penalties.

If we want to get real into it, I would say that m4 should be almost as good as T2, but much easier to fit.

m2 and m3 should be even lower fitting in either CPU or grid, but maybe come with some performance penalty.

[Boltorano]

Having meta items available, albeit at a slightly lower performance, provides a lot of variation in the fitting styles.

Except that in many cases, the meta 4 version currently has every advantage, including cost. And not only is the meta 4 version a better choice over T2 in those cases, it's also almost always a better choice over meta 1-3 as well, as the prices keep dropping to the point where the only reason you would use meta 1-3 over meta 4 is if the meta 4 is not available where you are, or one of those odd cases where the lower meta levels fit better than meta 4.

[RoemySchneider]

CCP should just make good meta look like the scrams and webs rare again to raise the price. whoever decided "RARE LOOT FOR ALL!" was a mega massive class A retard

this, plus the other seconded stuff

[Durzel]

Doesn't the Thorax end up with a net positive cap when fitting the 10MN MWD over named because of whatever weird calculation reduces the penalty? Admittedly that's an edge case.

[The Djego]

Most T2 mods other than weapons have been in need of a boost or something for ages.
For example; there has never been a reason to fit a T2 MWD over any named one.

T2 did offer 550% speed boost compared to 500% of the named one, making the named one mostly a choice for cap/power grid/cpu reasons. Since speed was key and the extra 50% scaled with polys, snakes and nanos the T2 mwd was just as common as T2 guns today. Then again QR.

It is actually a bit funny, if you look at how the price of the meta items crashed when CCP introduced the T2 variant back in the days(damage control, webs, points).

[Varcaus]

Doesn't the Thorax end up with a net positive cap when fitting the 10MN MWD over named because of whatever weird calculation reduces the penalty? Admittedly that's an edge case.

Yep

[KathDougans]

Specialization skills affecting only the t2 weapons means there is absolutely no reason to bring meta guns with faction ammo, its always better to use t2 version.

If you had a higher damage multiplier on the t2 weaponry, but your specialization skills could still improve the t1 and meta items (albeit with worse damage multiplier), you could have the choice to balance fittings one way or another. Currently its a no brainer and most newbies are told to train t2 weapons right off the bat.

What about faction guns in this case?

iirc, you need the specialisation skill at III or more for the damage multiplier of a t2 weapon to be higher than the various navy/pirate guns. And even then, the faction weapons usually have better fitting and performance in other areas. Small navy pulse lasers have slightly greater range, and better capacitor usage, for example.

[Ophichius]

Specialization skills affecting only the t2 weapons means there is absolutely no reason to bring meta guns with faction ammo, its always better to use t2 version.

If you had a higher damage multiplier on the t2 weaponry, but your specialization skills could still improve the t1 and meta items (albeit with worse damage multiplier), you could have the choice to balance fittings one way or another. Currently its a no brainer and most newbies are told to train t2 weapons right off the bat.

What about faction guns in this case?

iirc, you need the specialisation skill at III or more for the damage multiplier of a t2 weapon to be higher than the various navy/pirate guns. And even then, the faction weapons usually have better fitting and performance in other areas. Small navy pulse lasers have slightly greater range, and better capacitor usage, for example.

Lacks T2 ammo, worthless.

-O