Wormhole PvP Armour BS

**Vehlin** · July 18 2012, 01:02:53 PM

I'm trying to decide on as armour BS to fly in a small wormhole gang. Generally it will be used in the homage hole or the C2 next door.

I'm looking for something that could operate as part of a duo with either an Abso or armour Proteus.

I already have a couple of Shield BS to play with so need something to bring when armour is requested.

Current ideas include: Domi/Navy Domi or Mega/Navy Mega/Vindi.

Engagements tend to be within 20km so short range is the order of the day. any thoughts on the above ships or any other suggestions?

**Daneel Trevize** · July 18 2012, 01:27:17 PM

m8, Vindi, dooo eeet.

Don't discount the Fleet Pest as an active armour tanker(I'm assuming you want this & have links), it's v comparable to the NMega/Hyperion. Also active Abaddon is viable(basically dat ~100k EHP active-fitted faction BS's buffer for free). Armour Mach too. What large guns & skills do you have now? Do you desire selectable damage types?
How about Marauders, dem bonuses + utility highs?

NMega and NDomi tank great, it's just applying dps that's less so after dual cap injectors, tbh the NDomi's probably better and has more mids for web + eccm, plus easily doing a h neut or smarty. Vindi is of course the king of close ranged BSs for tackle & dps.

Actually what damage do you expect to be receiving when going armour? Bumping into many blasters, not wanting a thermal hole? Mostly this seems to come down to the 7 lowslot tankers and going with a thermal hardener or EANM for the final tanking slot choice, neither way being terribly omni.
Also one assumes mwd, but are you thinking otherwise?
What's the budget?

Edit: Really the best questions are: why do you want one, what do you want it for/to do with it? DPS support, bait fight initiation, utility neuts/smarties/RR, holding down stuff for dreads, or the fun of e.g. active tanking?

**Vehlin** · July 18 2012, 02:07:41 PM

Well got BS V all around and Large Spec IV for everything so ship choice is open to all really. I'm a bit torn between active vs buffer, I've always flown buffer BS in the past but I think for this active is the way to go.

I've got as shield Mach atm so unless it's going to be better I'd rather have something different. I've got about 2-3b to throw at the project but do want something that's worth the investment rather than pimp for pimp's sake. It's unlikely to be operating in a world of links, I can run them but it means giving up a ship to run the damnation or loki, likely as not just have bonuses from Abso with resist link and mindlink.

I'm currently leaning towards a Vindi, but there seems to be a consensus that it works better as a shield fit and I really want an armour boat.

**Zavior** · July 18 2012, 02:56:05 PM

Well if you want to be different try a fleet phoon!

**Ophichius** · July 18 2012, 03:22:30 PM

Vindi brings 90% webs, BattleBhaal brings incredibly nasty neuts + 20km web. Everything else will simply be DPS + brickability and honestly at that point it's just down to what hull you think is shiniest.

What targets are you planning on engaging? That will change what threat envelopes you need to consider and what tools you want to bring.

-O

**Daneel Trevize** · July 18 2012, 03:45:41 PM

I think you're going to want some sort of web what with all the recons & T3s, so that rules out the Mega/NMega, and realistically the phoons too. Unless you run them 1LAR+1MAR off of 1 injector.

Are you expecting scraps where you'll want smartbombs and be able to get enough range from the hole to reasonably use them?

The Pally & Kronos do have those 90% webs too...

Cue1* · July 18 2012, 05:39:06 PM

My corp runs abaddons(much to my chagrin, I hate BSs). With logi support they're amazing, although I think if you're just a BS with a friend or two, the domi is likely your best answer.

**Vehlin** · July 18 2012, 06:17:56 PM

I actually have a Bhaal already (full neut, double web). I'm looking for something to use in place of it where the neuts aren't needed.

Generally targets are going to be BCs, T3s, Logis and Hictors, if there's logis on the field I'll be pulling out the Bhaalgorn, otherwise something with decent DPS and survivability is nice.

I'm not into a Marauder for the simple fact that they're too vulnerable to ECM, their sensor strength is pants even with an ECCM. If I went the Vindi route how reliant on Null would I be? Could I do the job with only T1/Faction ammo (potentially thinking of bumping up the budget and going officer guns).

**Mr Marram** · July 18 2012, 06:57:54 PM

Null is pretty much standard on blaster fits.

Armour machs have been put to quite good use by a few corps (RnK particularly), enough mids for utility and lows for a nice tank/gank, +1 utility high for anti drone smartbomb or neut, lower mass than other BSes so won't take WHs down as fast.

**xanral** · July 18 2012, 06:59:11 PM

Don't discount the Hyperion either. I've found people more willing to engage it in WH space than my mega, domi, tempest, or maelstrom. I don't know if its because they tend to think its going to be a PvE fit with rails or more likely to be solo or just luck of the draw.

If you feel lucky you can use a dual web hyperion and actually put some hurt on AB T3s though obviously your cap will suffer.

**Daneel Trevize** · July 18 2012, 07:09:51 PM

Don't do officer guns, Null got buffed 3 times (directly for range twice, then general T2 ammo & Gal drawbacks reduced, halved ammo size, 5s reload). Also Void has much better optimal than AM, so if you have something held down to whale on, it's bloody comparable dps iirc. X-type reps way before officer guns unless you just want buffer. Even then, a-type EANMs at ~a bil each will do you well, and T2 large armour rigs.

So you don't care for even 1 neut or smarty? Kinda screams Vindi, other BSs won't come close to applied dps after that web, except possibly the Mach if you need to choose ammo (Tengus & Proteus will tank blasters nicely). Even then the web is good for all involved, and setting up bumps/blaps.

Trouble with a shiny fit Hyperion is the lack of buffer. Even full slaves and mindlink, it's really going to be a rush watching it rep even if it can get up to something stupid like >8k tank. Also 1 bad drug hit on buffer and it's even worse at any scale of pimp. At least the NMega gets its tank from the resists, which also gives a lovely buffer.

**xanral** · July 18 2012, 07:41:17 PM

Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize

Trouble with a shiny fit Hyperion is the lack of buffer. Even full slaves and mindlink, it's really going to be a rush watching it rep even if it can get up to something stupid like >8k tank. Also 1 bad drug hit on buffer and it's even worse at any scale of pimp. At least the NMega gets its tank from the resists, which also gives a lovely buffer.

I wasn't thinking of throwing all that ISK into 1 Hyperion, just T2 fit or maybe 100 million ISK in shiny and then you can shrug if you lose it.

That and people seem to underestimate its tank and DPS in WH space from my experience. I just don't picture too many C2 groups warping a small fleet to a WH when they see a vindicator on it or nearby. If they do then I'd expect they're going to be ready for the DPS and expected pimp and be able to counter it. I try to base any ships around how engage-able they will seem to the people I'm likely to fight as I'd rather by underestimated than overestimated.

*Edit - If this is more of a "we found some people bashing a POCO and have a warp in lets go 2 man them" sort of fleet setup then I'd suggest a vindy (or else a kitey shield ship). I figured it was more of a mostly consensual fight at a WH<->WH connection though.

**Vehlin** · July 19 2012, 11:46:21 AM

Very little WH PvP is "consensual" from my experience, the aim of the game usually is convincing the enemy that you have less ships than they think you have. The purpose of this is ship will be to provide surprise butsechs rather than be on the field from the start of the engagement.

**xanral** · July 19 2012, 01:02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Vehlin

Very little WH PvP is "consensual" from my experience, the aim of the game usually is convincing the enemy that you have less ships than they think you have. The purpose of this is ship will be to provide surprise butsechs rather than be on the field from the start of the engagement.

What I meant by mostly consensual is some form of baiting where they're choosing to field some PvP ships to kill you. I figured it would be on a WH as I wouldn't want to take an armor BS into a fight at a site as it can be kited to death. If at a WH I figured they'd have a scout over on your side where they would have at least 30-60 seconds warning on non-cloaky reinforcements and could choose to disengage from the other ship in your duo if they didn't like what their scout reported.

If you like the vindy I'd either go with a dual rep one something like:

Spoiler:

Or else a plate/rep one (single rep as from your description you didn't have logi).

Spoiler:

Put an ECCM on there as your biggest worry of being made useless is falcons as you stated you'd bring the bhaalgorn if they had logi.

I think the first one would be < 2 billion and the 2nd one certainly so. Carry the 3 ammo types, I've killed T3s with a normal mega using void and a 60% web so with a 90% web from the vindy + probably a web from the proteus and absolution you should tear apart your targets at 5K or so. Faction for anything able to go > 50 m/s while webbed and < 5K.

**Wrack** · July 21 2012, 06:33:02 PM

If you're just duoing with an abso or proteus, why do you have to match tank types? If I were gonna fly a BS solo or duo in a WH it'd be a nano pest or an active mael.

**Daneel Trevize** · July 21 2012, 07:27:24 PM

I'd assume due to effects.
That or what logi corpmates are online.

**OrangeAfroMan** · July 24 2012, 06:18:28 AM

Domi or Hyperion (domi gets points for anti-falcon duty with bouncers). Spend the rest of your budget on replacements/hookers and blow.

Will post fits later

**Vehlin** · July 26 2012, 11:29:51 AM

Well I decided to go with a Vindi in the end. I'll probably add in a Domi however for riskier duty and sentry spam.

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