Originally Posted by StevieTopSiders
They lose PG equivalent to one medium neut.
They lose PG equivalent to one medium neut.
Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.
"You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."
Neutering their ability to fit arties. no thanks.They lose PG equivalent to one medium neut.
I really like artillery as a weapon but everyone seems to be intent on crapping all over the platforms they're mounted on in order to reduce their viability as AC boats. I'd much rather see a directed nerf against ACs than one that effectively removes other options, forcing the cane to be more one dimensional than it currently is. The changes should encourage diversity rather than stifle it. I can get on board with most of prom's suggested changes apart from the cane. I mean if the top tier medium guns cant even be fitted to BCs outside of no tank sniping setups then there really is a problem.
[edit]: I still think the best way to do that is by a simple bonus change
^^
What he said. I want the Cane tobe able to do Arties, but there isn't a way to give it enough grid for 720's and neuter its 2x Medium Neut ability without getting rid of a slot.
you can still fit a typical 720 fit, only now its without medium neuts.
i see nothing wrong with that.
Is it as easy to fit as it is now? No, because it's a nerf.
Boo hoo.Neutering their ability to fit arties. no thanks.They lose PG equivalent to one medium neut.
I really like artillery as a weapon but everyone seems to be intent on crapping all over the platforms they're mounted on in order to reduce their viability as AC boats. I'd much rather see a directed nerf against ACs than one that effectively removes other options, forcing the cane to be more one dimensional than it currently is. The changes should encourage diversity rather than stifle it. I can get on board with most of prom's suggested changes apart from the cane. I mean if the top tier medium guns cant even be fitted to BCs outside of no tank sniping setups then there really is a problem.
[edit]: I still think the best way to do that is by a simple bonus change
The Harbinger would like to have a word with you. [protip: Can't fit Heavy Pulse on it unless you have no tank]
Actually an '06.
EVE: OrangeAfroMan
Dust514: Andrelommech
MWO: Northern Nomad
typical 720 fit has small neuts no?
Spoiler:
Same 50k tank as an arty cane.
now try beams.
thanks for coming out
Spoiler:
The oracle made every shield-gank harbinger more or less obsolete. Beam harbingers have always sucked even before the oracle so that's not really a change.
A similar 720mm fit (using RCU II) on a Cane has 174.88 grid left
If you subtract -150PG from the Cane hull, just add a medium ACR and you still have a roomy 121 grid left for other stuff (not quite enough for a medium neut)
Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.
"You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."
So what exactly are you complaining about?
You can do the same thing with the Hurricane, it just takes an ACR on top of the RCU (~5k ehp less).
AKA congrats, the Hurricane is no longer far and away the best of the bunch.
edit: i'm considering lowering the extra grid on the brutix grid and increasing it's damage bonus to compensate.
i don't want it to have similar range capabilities as the ferox (both blaster & rail), so reducing the extra grid but giving it the bigger bonus (say 10%) should take care of that.
Last edited by prometheus; July 4 2012 at 02:27:34 AM.
Would it not be better to shave some off the CPU instead?
Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.
"You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."
eh not really, especially since the brutix has never really be close to being short on CPU.
this is especially true once you start using named mods.
like i said, since it's the closest range of the bunch it *should* be the most damaging.
however, considering the naturally high number of slots that BCs are given, it's easy to give it waay more range.
scrapping the extra grid basically limits the ship to Ions for normal use, and neutrons for gank (or sacrificing something).
The Ferox is the long range hybrid ship, and it should stay that way.
[QUOTE=prometheus;497887]No it shoudnt, at least not untill railguns get fixed, the range buff for blasters really doesnt do that much so its bonus plays into the hand of railguns which are pretty bad at cruiser size. The ferox as it is now, is mainly used as a blster/ac shield tanking ships competing with the cyclone and not as a sniping ship!
(id like if it would get a tracking bonus instead, making it able to fight without a web. Or even a falloff bonus making it a bigger shield diemost, together with a little extra speed!)
It isn't now, the dreak is as for 50 less DPS (admittedly on a single dmg type) and 100m/s slower speed you get double the range and a choice of double EWAR or 10k more EHP and on top of that if you do bring logi the dreak has better resists.
If you took the time to actually read what has already been posted, you wouldnt be saying that.
First of all, railguns being *bad* doesn't mean the Ferox shouldn't be the long-range hybrid boat. Weapon systems can be tweaked and adjusted WITHOUT changing a ships design specs. In addition to that, neutrons+null on a Ferox are not something to be scoffed at.
Secondly, if you read what I said in regard to missile changes (ie: the thread linked for the Drake), you would see that the ship would have had its range reduced (T1 ~45km, T2 ~71km). Which, unaided, is less than the others in practice.
And it seems you have neither, see "at least not untill railguns get fixed"
why would you even disagree if you know that itd be fine if they were boosted a bit?
Slightly related question for Prom; why didn't rails get more of a boost in the November patch?
They were fine before the TE changes made Arty viable at range, but are now way out dated
Actually an '06.
EVE: OrangeAfroMan
Dust514: Andrelommech
MWO: Northern Nomad
no definitive answer, but trying not to overboost things was a concern.
as far as im concerned, i'd rather underboost & patch again than nerf things after a boost
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