Musings on upcoming BC rebalance

[Warmenhoven]

Myrmidon
+25 m3 bandwidth

DPS increase by ~60 for ~650 Tank and DPS on a Tri rep fit

Brutix
+2 Lows

PG limits ability to trirep as fit is currently tight with 2 reps and 1 booster but still has CPU spare so lows can be used for mag stabs wich give ~450 tank and 750 DPS

Cane

-5% RoF
+10% Optimal

Makes it less of a brawler and turns it into something a bit more scary to dreaks

Cyclone

+1 mid
+10% CPU

Allows for Web + 425mm fit for more Brutix like behavior or extra mid could be used for moar tank turning it into a myrm with slight tracking problems.

Dreak

No idea about missiles so v0v
Should however keep its HMs as it'll be the longer range boat in the Caldari line
MAYBE: swap resist bonus to exp radius bonus?

Ferox

-10% optimal
+5% RoF
+10% Grid

Ferox has aneamic DPS atm so this might sort it out. CPU would hold back active fits that out DPS the cyclone so it'll be more of a passive blaster brawler.

Harb

Again I have to confess ignorance here as i've never really flown one so dont know the problems. I suspect it will have to be buffed slightly rather than just a bonus swap.
MAYBE: move mid to low

Prophecy

-4 turrets
-1 High
+3 launchers
-------> changes highs to 6 slots w/ 4 launchers and 2 turrets
-10% laser cap use
+10% Drone Dmg/hitpoint etc
+50 m3 Drone Bandwidth
+2 Mid
+1 Low
+probably a CPU/PG rejig

No idea what that'll enable but seems legit.

[Xiang Jiao]

Myrmidon
+25 m3 bandwidth

Fucking boss right there.

Unfortunately, if the frig balancing is any indication, the tier 2 and 3 battle cruisers will be nerfed down to the level of the first tier. That means grid/CPU reductions with perhaps small boosts to overall skill bonuses. I really don't see the Myrmidon getting half the drone bandwidth back that it lost when bandwidth was introduced.

[Tsubutai]

Taking away 33% of the cane's dps would make it considerably worse than the current prophecy, which can at least fit a sizeable tank.

[Sponk]

From here: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/i...p?group_id=419

			slots	Hi	Tu	Mis	Mid	Lo	cpu	pg
A 	Harbinger 	18	8 	7 	  	4 	6 	375 	1,500
A 	Oracle 		17	8 	8 	  	3 	6 	345 	1,375
A 	Prophecy 	16	7 	6 	1 	3 	6 	350 	1,300
C 	Drake 		18	8 	  	7 	6 	4 	525 	850
C 	fer0x 		16	7 	6 	5 	5 	4 	475 	1,075
C 	Naga 		17	8 	8 	  	6 	3 	425 	875
G 	Brutix 		16	7 	7 	  	4 	5 	425 	1,150
G 	Myrmidon 	17	6 	6 	  	5 	6 	400 	1,175
G 	Talos 		17	8 	8 	  	4 	5 	360 	1,100
M 	Cyclone 	17	8 	5 	3 	5 	4 	425 	1,210
M 	Hurricane 	18	8 	6 	3 	4 	6 	400 	1,350
M 	Tornado 	17	8 	8 	  	5 	4 	342 	1,000

[Warmenhoven]

Taking away 33% of the cane's dps would make it considerably worse than the current prophecy, which can at least fit a sizeable tank.

Then fit HAMS instead of neuts utilizing all your weapon slots like all the other BC's have to in order to get 'good' DPS if you insist on brawling with it. OTOH fit arties like a man and hammer home your (unchanged) 3k alpha right into a dreaks EM hole. Will still be effective in small gangs and if you want to solo with winmatar use a cyclone instead.

Merci beaucoup Sponk =]

			slots	Hi	Tu	Mis	Mid	Lo	cpu	pg
A 	Harbinger 	18	8 	7 	  	3 	7 	425 	1,500
A 	Prophecy 	18	6 	2 	4 	5 	7 	350 	1,300
C 	Drake 	        18	8 	  	7 	6 	4 	525 	850
C 	fer0x 		16	7 	6 	5 	5 	4 	475 	1,210
G 	Brutix 	        18	7 	7 	  	4 	7 	425 	1,150
G 	Myrmidon 	17	6 	6 	  	5 	6 	400 	1,175
M 	Cyclone 	18	8 	5 	3 	6 	4 	475 	1,210
M 	Hurricane 	18	8 	6 	3 	4 	6 	400 	1,350

^ is what i'm suggesting
Although looking at it the ferox probs needs another slot but dont know where to put it

[Sponk]

So far, the design constraints of battlecruisers are:

high slots: 8 max, only tier 3 battlecruisers get 8 turrets.
mid slots: 6 max
low slots: 6 max

Working under those constraints, even under tiericide, some ships will still have more slots than others.

Some things of note:

* Cane needs to lose 200PG. Heck, you could argue that it could lose a low slot too.
* brutix needs a 1 low slot, a high slot (no turret) and more grid, so it can finally be the 18-slot gallente battlecruiser.
* Myrm needs +25MB bandwidth, lose a turret
* Prophecy needs 1 high, and +6 launchers and less turrets, and a HAM bonus
* fer0x needs +1 high (since it can't get a mid, and shouldn't get a low)

[OrangeAfroMan]

Myrm needs + 25 bandwidth and loss of two or three turrets and maybe a highslot

[prometheus]

Brutix
-1 high, 1+ mid, +1 low
damage increased to 10%/level
The ship gains damage, versatility, cap, tank, etc..
Better all around except for RAW DPS output in gank form.


Myrm
-2 turrets
+50 bandwidth
-50 base grid
The ship gains more damage but becomes hugely drone reliant.
Very versatile and dangerous, but very easy to neuter via drones.


Harbinger
+150 base grid
The ship is already pretty good, but giving it some more grid will allow bigger guns with a bigger tank.


Prophecy
+100 base cpu
+6 launcher hardpoints
+1 low
Cap bonus changed to missile bonus (10% EM, 5% else)
As outlined in this thread, the Prophecy would become something like an armor Drake.


Drake
Missile changes(not ship specific nerf, because i think the ship is fine otherwise)


14 inch penis
+1 mid
+125 base grid
It's not a terrible ship, but fitting a nice tank neutralizes its damage output. More fitting means bigger and better guns with a better tank.
Compared the Brutix, the 14 inch penis is weaker in DPS, but about equal in tank, & far superior in range.


Cyclone
+50 base cpu
Already a really powerful ship with a slot advantage over the others, adding a nice bit of base CPU will solve it's main problem.


Hurricane
base speed reduced to ~155
-150 base grid
Too long as *op*, reducing grid and speed means you cant throw everything and the kitchen sink on it anymore while still flying about at ludicrous speeds (for a bc)


That's all that needs to be done, IMO

[OrangeAfroMan]

/agree with Prom


You're starting to come back around, you went full retard there for a while

[Alain Colcer]

gotta say prom's suggestions are quite good

[Sponk]

re Brutix changes: won't they crowd out the design space allotted for navy battlecruisers?

[prometheus]

re Brutix changes: won't they crowd out the design space allotted for navy battlecruisers?

I can't see CCP introducing navy variants beyond things like skins.
If that were the case, they'd need to be TOTALLY different and basically become T1 Command Ships.

[Lallante]

Arguably the Brutix should lose some drone space/bandwidth too prom otherwise it becomes a little too good.

Also with that harbinger change there wont be much breathing room between it and a (vastly more expensive, incredibly skill intensive) absolution. Absolution buff (and model change) needed!

[W0lf Crendraven]

Arguably the Brutix should lose some drone space/bandwidth too prom otherwise it becomes a little too good.

Also with that harbinger change there wont be much breathing room between it and a (vastly more expensive, incredibly skill intensive) absolution. Absolution buff (and model change) needed!

Thats pretty true for the (if changed like prom suggests) myrm/brutix which will be pretty close to the eos/astarte! Just buff the whole ship class up, command ships need to become op!

[Ophichius]

Arguably the Brutix should lose some drone space/bandwidth too prom otherwise it becomes a little too good.

Also with that harbinger change there wont be much breathing room between it and a (vastly more expensive, incredibly skill intensive) absolution. Absolution buff (and model change) needed!

There's already not much breathing room between the Ti2 BCs and field command ships. You get most of the DPS output at similar ranges for a tiny fraction of the cost. Hurricane and Harbinger basically invaded the niche once occupied by the Sleip and Abso. Drake is a somewhat watered down, tankier Nighthawk. Only the Astarte and Myrm don't really share any similarities.

Also, you can have my Abso model when you pry it from my cold, lifeless clone. Gold and crimson laser chicken forever!

-O

[Lallante]

Arguably the Brutix should lose some drone space/bandwidth too prom otherwise it becomes a little too good.

Also with that harbinger change there wont be much breathing room between it and a (vastly more expensive, incredibly skill intensive) absolution. Absolution buff (and model change) needed!

There's already not much breathing room between the Ti2 BCs and field command ships. You get most of the DPS output at similar ranges for a tiny fraction of the cost. Hurricane and Harbinger basically invaded the niche once occupied by the Sleip and Abso. Drake is a somewhat watered down, tankier Nighthawk. Only the Astarte and Myrm don't really share any similarities.

Also, you can have my Abso model when you pry it from my cold, lifeless clone. Gold and crimson laser chicken forever!

-O

Brown and Reddish Brown laser chicken post v3 :P

[Ophichius]

Brown and Reddish Brown laser chicken post v3 :P

Granted. I love the new v3 shaders, I just hate what they decided to do to EVERY GODDAMN SHIP when they started applying them. I'm struggling to think of a v3'ed hull that wasn't made retarded in some way when they updated. Minmatar got shiny and no longer rusty, Amarr got dull and dun-colored (And Khanid ships are no longer that wonderful glossy black with electric blue lights). I sort of wonder if they fired their art department and replaced them with people who have never played the game or talked to the players.

Also, new turret models are a 50/50 mix of awesome and fucking terrible. Clearly designed without a pattern. (Why does the 220mm Vulcan not have multi-barrel spinny bits while the 425mm autocannon does? Why isn't the 75mm gatling rail actually a gatling gun? Who the hell designs square cross-section barrels for artillery?)

-O

[Ezekiel Sulastin]

The Gallente ships look like they got rolled in charcoal dust (really starting to miss the baby-blue post-trinity models now), for rails it seems that similar models were done by TIER rather than size (srsly, look at the 125mm, 200mm, and 350mm rails ...), and the turrets/turret points really weren't designed for universally mountable turrets.

For instance, consider the 425mm Railgun with its circular base: there is only one ship that would actually use it that has a matching mounting point, and that's the Talos with its circular divots (which in turn look off for every other hybrid). No other ship looks like its designed to use them - indeed, many have the turret extending past the ship itself (such as the Naga, Rokh, and Megathron)!

[prometheus]

my post implies that the command hulls would get some work as well (i have a thread on that somewhere here as well).

[StevieTopSiders]

Nowhere do I see the Cane only getting one utility high, because noots oh pee.