Tropes vs. Women in Video Games Controversy

[Lallante]

This comes from Monday's daythread but is a much bigger deal and warrants its own thread.

Background

Anita Sarkeesian is a feminst blogger who is also a gamer. She produces reasonable production values video documentaries on feminist topics (for example on women in film).

She started a kickstarter project to raise $6,000 to create a series of 12 films relating to female character tropes in videogaming.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...in-video-games

As you will see, the project has raised $150,000 plus. This is arguably not, primarily, due to interest in the videos themselves, though I personally would watch them and they do seem to me to be a good idea. Instead this is a sort of "counter-backlash" of donations against the incredible storm of abuse and hatred that her project (and its introduction video) generated.


View

Obviously everyone not trolling on here will be against the deaththreats etc against Anita, but there will be a large number of people (see: Krans, Wall) who rationalise their inner-misogyny with arguments like the following:

"Men are stereotyped too and we don't complain"
"Who actually cares? Its just a videogame its not meant to be realistic"
"Feminism = retarded therefore this video concept = retarded"
"I bet she steals the money. She is just exploiting people. Why does she even need so much?"
"Anyone who gets worked up about this stuff is an idiot".
"Welcome to the internet - this is what its like get over it"
"She is just playing the victim".
"Trolls gonna troll, she should HTFU"
"People will find a way to be offended by ANYTHING".

I want to state that I think if you subscribe to the above arguments you are either misogynists in denial or else someone who doesn't think through or logically justify their views (i.e. a retard).

You are latching on to what are (trivially demonstrably) irrational or even stupid arguments in order to justify your gut hatred of a woman criticising a male-dominated hobby of yours and getting widespread support.

The best thing about this drama is it absolutely and emphatically proves the importance of her project. The incredible, bitter backlash from social-phobic neckbeards shows that years of having your only exposure to women (apart from your mom) come from ridiculously weak damsels in distress or huge breasted barbie doll figures in games breeds disgusting sexism and perverted, distorted views on what acceptable attitudes to gender issues are.

News coverage
http://kotaku.com/5917623/awful-thin...me-stereotypes
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...rkeesian-tyler
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...tm_hp_ref=arts
http://kotaku.com/5918217/these-guys...-they-trolling
http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/06/15/t...nded-feminism/

[Mrenda]

Lallante knows how to get a modern woman all hot and bothered!

[Blutreiter]

If I believe in equal treatment and get misogenic (sp?) when confronted with feminists, does that make me a bad person?

[Mrenda]

If I believe in equal treatment and get misogenic (sp?) when confronted with feminists, does that make me a bad person?

Short answer, yes.
Slightly longer answer, it depends on the "brand" of feminist you have been confronted by, but still yes.

[Paradox]

If I believe in equal treatment and get misogenic (sp?) when confronted with feminists, does that make me a bad person?

I imagine so since everyone knows that being even slightly misogynistic makes you Hitler and you deserve to die in a special hell for retards because you are demonstrably a badman

Feminists are exempt from the above rule, naturally

[Blutreiter]

If I believe in equal treatment and get misogenic (sp?) when confronted with feminists, does that make me a bad person?

Short answer, yes.
Slightly longer answer, it depends on the "brand" of feminist you have been confronted by, but still yes.

Those bitchy "men are a blight unto humanity" feminists. Those that when they spawn a male, go into full retard indoctrination mode. That ticks me off outside reasonable parameters.

[Chrien]

Apparently exhibiting a type of behaviour towards a certain group allows you are categorised unanimously and without any hint of doubt in Lallente's world. In this world of absolutes everything is black and white, there is no grey, and there are only misogynists and those who are not.

[Lallante]

If I believe in equal treatment and get misogenic (sp?) when confronted with feminists, does that make me a bad person?

Seperate but equal amirite?

[Sacul]

Just read all the links and damnnnnn

I dont play the games mentioned and i cant really relate to all of it but in general there seems to be a new wave of representing women like they need a white knight every day (in Holland) which puzzles me.

Sex sells nbs but i can imagine if you are a neckbeard born in >1990 you have a very warped image of women.

[lt]

Apparently exhibiting a type of behaviour towards a certain group allows you are categorised unanimously and without any hint of doubt in Lallente's world. In this world of absolutes everything is black and white, there is no grey, and there are only misogynists and those who are not.

Your statement is strange. Are you trying to tell us that argueing"Anyone who gets worked up about this stuff is an idiot" is not misogyny?

[Lallante]

If I believe in equal treatment and get misogenic (sp?) when confronted with feminists, does that make me a bad person?

I imagine so since everyone knows that being even slightly misogynistic makes you Hitler and you deserve to die in a special hell for retards because you are demonstrably a badman

Feminists are exempt from the above rule, naturally

Hey heres a strawman with a side of sweeping generalisation. Trivialising sexism is pathetic - either you don't care (fair enough, so don't post) or you do care and are attempting to trivialise it because you are sexist yourself.

[Cool09]

9 strawmans in one post, new record?

[Traxio Nacho]

Apparently exhibiting a type of behaviour towards a certain group allows you are categorised unanimously and without any hint of doubt in Lallente's world. In this world of absolutes everything is black and white, there is no grey, and there are only misogynists and those who are not.

Remember Lallante's MO, pick a side in a debate that should get people biting, post to get responses claim its all a troll if it all goes down the pan. Which is why it is stupid to reply to him as he'll just claim he was trolling all along.

[Lallante]

If I believe in equal treatment and get misogenic (sp?) when confronted with feminists, does that make me a bad person?

If you get misogynistic then yes, that does make you a bad person.

[Lallante]

9 strawmans in one post, new record?

I've stated some views that its possible to have, and then said that anyone who agrees with them is a misogynist. If you don't agree with them then my comments are not targetted at you.

If you do agree with them then it isn't a strawman.

[Blutreiter]

If I believe in equal treatment and get misogenic (sp?) when confronted with feminists, does that make me a bad person?

Seperate but equal amirite?

No, not really. I actually do believe in equality between genders. As much as I dislike redneck wifebeaters, I also hate the other side of the spectrum with a passion. And I will freely admit that they actually transform me into a misogenic for a short while.

[Lallante]

If I believe in equal treatment and get misogenic (sp?) when confronted with feminists, does that make me a bad person?

Short answer, yes.
Slightly longer answer, it depends on the "brand" of feminist you have been confronted by, but still yes.

Those bitchy "men are a blight unto humanity" feminists. Those that when they spawn a male, go into full retard indoctrination mode. That ticks me off outside reasonable parameters.

Have you ever actually met any of that kind of feminist? In my experience they are about as common as neo-nazis and about as relevant as a basis for an opinion on feminism as neo-nazis are as a basis for a view on conservatives.

[Lallante]

Apparently exhibiting a type of behaviour towards a certain group allows you are categorised unanimously and without any hint of doubt in Lallente's world. In this world of absolutes everything is black and white, there is no grey, and there are only misogynists and those who are not.

Strongly worded OPs generate fiercer debate.

[Mrenda]

If I believe in equal treatment and get misogenic (sp?) when confronted with feminists, does that make me a bad person?

Seperate but equal amirite?

No, not really. I actually do believe in equality between genders. As much as I dislike redneck wifebeaters, I also hate the other side of the spectrum with a passion. And I will freely admit that they actually transform me into a misogenic for a short while.

They don't turn you into a misogynist for a little bit. The fact that you can transform "into a misogenic for a short while" means you are a misogynist. It's like saying "I'm not a racist but god I hate the blacks when they're selling crack."

[Paradox]

If I believe in equal treatment and get misogenic (sp?) when confronted with feminists, does that make me a bad person?

I imagine so since everyone knows that being even slightly misogynistic makes you Hitler and you deserve to die in a special hell for retards because you are demonstrably a badman

Feminists are exempt from the above rule, naturally

Hey heres a strawman with a side of sweeping generalisation. Trivialising sexism is pathetic - either you don't care (fair enough, so don't post) or you do care and are attempting to trivialise it because you are sexist yourself.

Sweeping generalisation eh?

I want to state that I think if you subscribe to the above arguments you are either misogynists in denial or else someone who doesn't think through or logically justify their views (i.e. a retard).

You are latching on to what are (trivially demonstrably) irrational or even stupid arguments in order to justify your gut hatred of a woman criticising a male-dominated hobby of yours and getting widespread support.

So if I suspected that this is just a money grab or a troll that makes me a "misogynist in denial" or "someone who doesn't logically think through or justify their views" yeah?

As Wall said in the daythread, this is precisely the kind of social issue that is:

a: very easy to monetise now that kickstarter has a large following and

b: doesn't really cost anything if it fails.

Sure there's every chance that this might legitimately be a women's group wanting to speak out about female portrayals in video games but that kind of stuff has been ranted and raved about by feminist groups since the first Tomb Raider game and probably before. But I think it unlikely given the above points, too easy.