Tier 10 mediums and TDs

[Qui Shon]

I haven't had any issues when I hit it above the mid-line. If I hit it below that, then it counts as a frontal turret and will bounce most shots. Above that line, where the actual copula is? Absorbs every time for me.



Edit: Added image for clarity.

Well, not for me. I've tried above midline, then I tried below, then either, it seems completely random to me.

Other crazy random shit yesterday:
Bounce HE from M40/43 (so 203mm gun) on direct hit on Maus TWICE in a row, 0 dmg.
Bounce AP from BatChat on T92 flat unangled rear from point blank range, TWICE in three shots.

Now once in a while this happens, but twice in a row, two times on the same day?


Since I got a new beefed up comp and reinstalled everything, after a month long break, things go to shit for me ALL the time. My stats are in freefall...


...freefall the last few weeks, been doing 45-50% daily winrate instead of my usual 57-65%. I've even resorted to playing in platoons half the time so I won't get piled on in every fucking game. Can't damage anything, just ding ding ding, got sniper six times in a row this morning in T9 meds, every game a ~400-600 xp loss because shit just fucking dings or does no damage. Normally those would've been 800-1000xp losses with that number of hits. And so on, and on and on. Whine whine woe is me 1st world slacker nerd problems.

But really, it's so I'm starting to suspect there's some disconnect between what I see and what the server sees, that wasn't there on my old comp that struggled to get 25fps in cities on medium/low settings. With the new supadupa comp, fps performance ain't the issue, but in game (player) performance sure is.

[V]

Blame the lag. Like everybody else.

[Muffinsrevenger]

Did a few games this morning, had a silly amounts of "lol pen but no damage" hits, did get me killed more then once
Case in point, two hits in a row on the side armor of a t-44 from a löwe (not the tracks), pen but 0 damage with both of them

[Dahak]

Cupola. That is all.

[Elias M]

I have decided today that I want an Object 268.

Time to save up for an Object 704.

[Accipiter]

Since I got a new beefed up comp and reinstalled everything, after a month long break, things go to shit for me ALL the time. My stats are in freefall...


...freefall the last few weeks, been doing 45-50% daily winrate instead of my usual 57-65%. I've even resorted to playing in platoons half the time so I won't get piled on in every fucking game. Can't damage anything, just ding ding ding, got sniper six times in a row this morning in T9 meds, every game a ~400-600 xp loss because shit just fucking dings or does no damage. Normally those would've been 800-1000xp losses with that number of hits. And so on, and on and on. Whine whine woe is me 1st world slacker nerd problems.

But really, it's so I'm starting to suspect there's some disconnect between what I see and what the server sees, that wasn't there on my old comp that struggled to get 25fps in cities on medium/low settings. With the new supadupa comp, fps performance ain't the issue, but in game (player) performance sure is.

Which site/prog do you use for this kind of graph?

[Xiang Jiao]

I feel for you Qui Shon. Some games are just bounces, and zero damage crits, plus I've been missing a lot more recently with German guns. I noticed that lag is usually a contributing factor. Not crazy lag mind you, but sustained periods of 150-180 ms ping as opposed to the 50-70 that I'm used to seeing. That's enough to cause you to miss a moving target if you aren't used to it.

[SteeleResolve]

I shouldn't have bought the misses a nexus 7 as now she in constantly fucking streaming something (my low-ish ping backbone!)

[Dahak]

I shouldn't have bought the misses a nexus 7 as now she in constantly fucking streaming something (my low-ish ping backbone!)

Go set a speed limit. Tell her it's the service's fault.

[V]

I shouldn't have bought the misses a nexus 7 as now she in constantly fucking streaming something (my low-ish ping backbone!)

Go set a speed limit. Tell her it's the service's fault.

That's pro IT thinking right there.

[Shuko]

Which site/prog do you use for this kind of graph?

Looks like planetwot

[Xiang Jiao]

I shouldn't have bought the misses a nexus 7 as now she in constantly fucking streaming something (my low-ish ping backbone!)

You bought your wife a replicant?



Nice move.

[Qui Shon]

Which site/prog do you use for this kind of graph?

Looks like planetwot

Ya.

[Lusulpher]

Btw the IS4s soft spot is lower glacis...the driver hatch has ruined several solos in which I had the lead[DO NOT shoot it from above either!]. The lower glacis is as hard as fucking mildewed toast.
Might as well have the gas-soaked engine/tranny there just for irony's sake.

Every tank is weak in the lower glacis.

And I haven't had any issues with the driver's hatch. Yes, they buffed it to something like 200mm around the view slit, but when your shooting down into it from a facehug position, I penetrate it every time with a 225+ pen gun. If the tank is at an angle, then just pick a spot that is most flat to you like it's shoulders and shoot at that. That is where 2 of it's ammo racks are located anyways.

I never shot the T9 IS4 in the lower glacis. That was tantamount to bending over. And the 'apron shoulders' were 50/50 chance of pen.

And i mean a 10-20m shot to the driver hatch with a T10 gun, 50% scope from above while hanging off a cliff face...creating a beautiful 90deg angle, and a bounce 60-70% of the time. WTF IS THAT? The scuff mark will even be ON the slit!

I've never been penned consistently in my 'shoulders' in any model IS4.[damn T34s can sometimes ignore their angled thickness] And yes, I have always angled the IS4 like a Tiger H, never been racked frontally. And quite frankly the drivers are dying in these tanks no matter how unlikely the enemy pen chance. Removed my Gov, for a medkit a few weeks back...[stealth nerf of a Russian?? Will it be gone in 7.5??]

The IS7's lower glacis is bait for victims. Just like the T11's cupola. If they are moving, and enemy has no gold...INVINCIBLE WEAKSPOT.
Even the Maus's right cheek simply ignores T11/IS7 shells in the exact same holes half the time! That doesn't even involve an angle change, WG just sucks at coding.


BTW, which bounces more the new Russian TD or the E100 TD? Is the Russian mantlet a null zone for all dmg? Like the ISU can do...
I might have a replay from yesterday to demonstrate.

I wish I could relate to your issues...but I can't.

I'll try go to through the issues you present 1 at a time.

If your above an IS-4 leaning over a cliff looking down on it...why are you shooting at driver's hatch? I'd aim at virtually anything else tbh. Rear engine deck and top of turret are two very large and weak targets begging to be shot. I usually go for engine shots as that can stop a tank and set it on fire. And if the tank is angled in a way so it's facing you and you don't have a shot at it's top...then why even lean over the cliff if it's aimed at you? That's your masochistic side controlling the tank.

Shoulder shots are always risky, that's why you take those shots when it has it's shoulders facing you to minimize the angle produced. Otherwise it's just a crapshot every time. And as for removed speed governor on an IS-4...I don't believe I ever met anyone who used that before you Lusulpher. The tank is so damn slow even with it, that it makes one wonder why even bother? Repair, Medkit, Fire extinguisher. That is all.

And now concerning the IS-7's lower glacis and T110's copula...again, I haven't had any issues penetrating them. If the IS-7 is facing straight at me, and we are on equal ground (or I am at a lower elevation), then I shoot at the lower glacias every time. EVERY TIME. If I am at a higher elevation, then I shoot at the driver's hatch. I don't bounce much on the lower glacias with a tier 9+ gun, but I make sure every shot counts. You kind of have to when your driving German tanks with their abyssmal reload times.

And the T110's copula soaks up shots from even weak guns, so long as they hit the front of it. The rear of the copula is actually well armored. Take a look at your T110's copula and you will see why. I miss it at times due to it's small size, but rarely (if at all) bounce on it.

And as for your Maus' right cheek...I don't have any issues there either with tier 9+ guns. Right or left cheek, it's all the same.



Concerning the Russian and German tier 10 TD's...Mantlet's on both tanks are strong and have spaced armor. This makes sense, since most mantlets are built this same way. The Russian TD has similar armor as the IS-8 though, and some decent sloping, however from everything I have heard it acts like an IS-8 in that it will not block any high powered shells.

The German TD has the same exact hull as the E-100 tank, with a superstructure of a JT (250mm frontal). It's mantlet is rated at 300mm as well.

This is strange...very strange. I can't be hallucinating all those bounces, as some of those easy pens that bounced instead have cost me my game/pride.

-ISes usually push Mines or Cliffs and I'm above them. I shoot into the driver slot from above which is a 90deg angle, it's COMPLETELY flat if you do it right. They see the bounce, snap their gun upward and pen me, without aiming. But I took 2-4 secs to shoot out their driver's eye socket.[Hoping to make their push past my ledge even slower, so I can work their engine later] It's in the wiki, it's not supposed to bounce off the T9 or T10 slit. It does.
On flat ground I no longer bother, even if they are facing my T110 at 20m, unangled. Which leads to my next gripe...

-Speed Gov is great for getting tracked and then accelerating to nearest cover. I like consistent top speed when I'm Soviet Victoring about a map...NEVER needed the Medkit until last patch. NOTHING could pen my angled Tiger H technique of: shoot, angle-wiggle, bounce it, move, repeat. And zerocrits on my sides make flanking an IS without 3 tanks pointless. Now I'm losing my driver at the start of most games from long range hits that used to bounce. Now I need the Medkit. I want the Gov back because I lose HP to arty mostly...
I smell stealth nerf on performance.
You simply do not shoot at an ISs' front beyond 300m unless you are T10 gun. I'm being penned by random T8-9 scrubs.

And the shoulder forward for hundreds of games never once took a racking. And I used to fight T10s, and I even racked a few IS4s with my M103. But those IS4s never used to wiggle, so they deserved what they got.
MOST tanks play in that stance to bounce things 2 tiers above...and arty 3 tiers below. Except the old IS3 which WAS a POS...but now bounces all using it's side armour.

IS7 stationary can bounce the E100 off it's lower glacis 80% of the time. Rolling back and forth 5m, it simply begins to ignore other T10s until they are dead. Every week I do this and get 27 hits received in some game, it's always funny.[I've uploaded replays from my first few games in it, it gives no fucks, might as well be a MAUS]

T11 Steppes, 8line, get hulldown, kill 4 tanks, cupola covered in scuffs. Take no dmg!
I've done it, I've seen others do it. It's real.

-And the IS8 bounced 2x IS7s at 10m into my face on Abbey...and I have facehugged 2x AMX 50Fochs to death[replay uploaded] using the side cheeks, instead of the buttery-soft mantlet. The M103 does the same things. Dat cheek armour. WG can't code armour value for shit. But I wiggle their armour and don't stop until those T10s waste 3 shells. CANNOT WAIT FOR THE OBJ with the ISU gun mantlet/M6 trolltrack armour. IT WILL GIVE NO FUCKS.




And I'm getting very mad that my Frenchies are now zerocritting arty. It's getting to the point where every 2nd shell is ignboring it's pen amount. My Bat bounced off a VKDB's ass 2x tonight at 10m and I was chasing down...then I bounce off a T92's gun on a 2nd shot and he nukes me...I was the only person flanking enemy team, wtf, we lose. Then my 1390 zerocrits a GWP, then tracks it, then TRACKS THE OTHER SIDE OF IT...at 100m and he's sideways to me...the GWP had 1% HP. And I wasted 3 shells so that he could not magically snapshot at range as I flanked his base.
A JT nukes me.


I haven't seen French rng so hostile since they adjusted the Bat and Lorraine months back! I can't even be confident I can solo arties when I raid them at 60kph. If I stay at range, I'm killed by a Russian arty snapshot 80% of the time...is this how WG balances WR???
And I suspect WG because this bouncing/no dmg shit started this week.[russian arty always had better TD rng and is more accurate/harder-hitting than all other nations]


Also, says I play all tiers, all nations and types of tanks, pretty much equally, every night. That explains my rage about bounces.
http://www.planetwot.com/playerStats...usulpher&d=com

[mewninn]

The T110E4 will be nice to play simply because the T30 is entirely at the mercy of the RNG now.

[Daco]

Can someone give me a tl;dr on lulsuphers post because stuff reading all of that.

[Shuko]

Can someone give me a tl;dr on lulsuphers post because stuff reading all of that.

Nothing worthy in it.

[Dogbeast]

This is strange...very strange. I can't be hallucinating all those bounces, as some of those easy pens that bounced instead have cost me my game/pride.

I'm guessing that you do most of your shooting in the 3rd person mode, from what I remember watching your replays. And you don't zoom in fully. These two, combined with a close range brawl, will make your gun aim high towards the top of the enemy tank and will frequently bounce shots you wouldn't if you aimed.

-ISes usually push Mines or Cliffs and I'm above them. I shoot into the driver slot from above which is a 90deg angle, it's COMPLETELY flat if you do it right. They see the bounce, snap their gun upward and pen me, without aiming. But I took 2-4 secs to shoot out their driver's eye socket.[Hoping to make their push past my ledge even slower, so I can work their engine later] It's in the wiki, it's not supposed to bounce off the T9 or T10 slit. It does.
On flat ground I no longer bother, even if they are facing my T110 at 20m, unangled. Which leads to my next gripe...

If it takes you 2-4s to shoot a tank AFTER you already got to the position of leaning over the cliff ontop of an enemy tank...then your obviously doing it wrong. Again, why are you shooting at one of the strongest parts of a tank when your ABOVE him? Aim for weaker spots like engine deck or turret roof. Cliff diving involves this, and only this: Drive over cliff, shoot down at enemy tank, back out before he or anyone else can aim at you. If people are aiming at your position, then don't lean over unless you deem it a worthy goal (ie killing shot on an IS-4 when everything else is low tier, and you can take the hits). When everyone is looking away, then you go and lean over the edge again for another shot. Scoot away when they start looking at you. Repeat. You do not sit over the cliff for any extended amount of time unless it's safe. And from what your writing, it's almost never safe for you.

-Speed Gov is great for getting tracked and then accelerating to nearest cover. I like consistent top speed when I'm Soviet Victoring about a map...NEVER needed the Medkit until last patch. NOTHING could pen my angled Tiger H technique of: shoot, angle-wiggle, bounce it, move, repeat. And zerocrits on my sides make flanking an IS without 3 tanks pointless. Now I'm losing my driver at the start of most games from long range hits that used to bounce. Now I need the Medkit. I want the Gov back because I lose HP to arty mostly...
I smell stealth nerf on performance.
You simply do not shoot at an ISs' front beyond 300m unless you are T10 gun. I'm being penned by random T8-9 scrubs.

Speed governor increases your engine HP, giving you greater acceleration. Not top speed. And as for nothing penetrating your Tiger H...I'll call bullshit. Remember, I've played with you, and watched you. And if you cannot penetrate an IS at any angle, at any range, with a tier 6+ gun...then your doing it wrong. Even the 88mm L/56 doesn't have any issues penetrating an IS. I don't know how to really give advice on this, it's so basic.

And the shoulder forward for hundreds of games never once took a racking. And I used to fight T10s, and I even racked a few IS4s with my M103. But those IS4s never used to wiggle, so they deserved what they got.
MOST tanks play in that stance to bounce things 2 tiers above...and arty 3 tiers below. Except the old IS3 which WAS a POS...but now bounces all using it's side armour.

So wait, your saying that your IS-4 never got ammo racked, but you have ammo racked enemy IS-4's? Ok...I don't see your point other than being that IS-4's can be ammo racked. And I don't see how you can "bounce things 2 tiers above...and arty 3 tiers below." in an IS-4. IS-4 is tier 10. That's the highest tier you can go...And bouncing an arty shot is a rare feat. It happens, but very very rarely.

And as for IS-3's bouncing all using it's side armor...they have the same armor layout as before. Only thing different is that the tank as a whole has shrunk in size. So maybe your aim just got worse? It happens when we get old.

IS7 stationary can bounce the E100 off it's lower glacis 80% of the time. Rolling back and forth 5m, it simply begins to ignore other T10s until they are dead. Every week I do this and get 27 hits received in some game, it's always funny.[I've uploaded replays from my first few games in it, it gives no fucks, might as well be a MAUS]

Most things tier 8+ with decent armor can bounce the E-100. IS-7 especially. Just look at the dynamics at play. The E-100 has a higher profile and when fighting an IS-7 has to aim at a downward angle. So of course shooting the lower glacias of an IS-7 is foolhardy. Only way it would work most of the time, was if the IS-7 was at a higher elevation than the E-100 like leaning over a cliffside. E-100 should be aiming at the IS-7's driver's hatch or commander's hatch when that close. Otherwise go for a flanking shot. Yes, you can blame the low pen of the 15cm gun on the E-100, but you can also blame the player for poorly aimed shots and attempting to shoot things without understanding the basics of ballistic mechanics.

T11 Steppes, 8line, get hulldown, kill 4 tanks, cupola covered in scuffs. Take no dmg!
I've done it, I've seen others do it. It's real.

I believe it. I've seen it, and I've done it. Like I posted earlier, refer to the picture:

It would bounce shots that glance it, but when a shot lands squarely into the upper copula, it will absorb it. If it does no damage, then that is a factor of the RNG. No, not the RNG you constantly rant about Lusulpher. The RNG everyone else is familiar with. It has no bias and has no vendetta against you and only you. It treats everyone the same (for better or for worse).

-And the IS8 bounced 2x IS7s at 10m into my face on Abbey...and I have facehugged 2x AMX 50Fochs to death[replay uploaded] using the side cheeks, instead of the buttery-soft mantlet. The M103 does the same things. Dat cheek armour. WG can't code armour value for shit. But I wiggle their armour and don't stop until those T10s waste 3 shells. CANNOT WAIT FOR THE OBJ with the ISU gun mantlet/M6 trolltrack armour. IT WILL GIVE NO FUCKS.

Those IS-7's are retards if they are bouncing their shots on your IS-8. No idea wtf your talking about with the AMX 50 Fochs, so w/e.

If your refering to the armor on the sides of the mantlet on the M103, then yes. They are notoriously weak. As a note though, they are highly angled and hard to hit at range for any target that the M103 is aiming at. I actually enjoy watching people try to "wiggle" their way out of eating one of my shells. It's always predictable. When they wiggle left, they are going to wiggle right right after. When they go right, they will go left after. Time your shot correctly, and it actually presents a more shallow angle on their exposed cheek that will readily absorb a shot. In addition to this, they have to re-aim their shot at me giving me even more time to scoot out of their sight or get hulldown even further.

Concerning the Object 704 and ISU-152's mantlet armor. Yes, it is awesome. Unfortunately for you, and every other Object 704/ISU-152 driver out there...the smart people will not shoot your mantlet. It covers 1/2 your tank. The other half is as ripe as a watermelon on a sunny day. Relatively easy to hit, and relatively easy to penetrate with a 225+ pen gun. On the ISU-152, you only really need a gun that can do 100+ penetration.

And I'm getting very mad that my Frenchies are now zerocritting arty. It's getting to the point where every 2nd shell is ignboring it's pen amount. My Bat bounced off a VKDB's ass 2x tonight at 10m and I was chasing down...then I bounce off a T92's gun on a 2nd shot and he nukes me...I was the only person flanking enemy team, wtf, we lose. Then my 1390 zerocrits a GWP, then tracks it, then TRACKS THE OTHER SIDE OF IT...at 100m and he's sideways to me...the GWP had 1% HP. And I wasted 3 shells so that he could not magically snapshot at range as I flanked his base.
A JT nukes me.


I haven't seen French rng so hostile since they adjusted the Bat and Lorraine months back! I can't even be confident I can solo arties when I raid them at 60kph. If I stay at range, I'm killed by a Russian arty snapshot 80% of the time...is this how WG balances WR???
And I suspect WG because this bouncing/no dmg shit started this week.[russian arty always had better TD rng and is more accurate/harder-hitting than all other nations]


Also, says I play all tiers, all nations and types of tanks, pretty much equally, every night. That explains my rage about bounces.
http://www.planetwot.com/playerStats...usulpher&d=com

It's like your choosing to focus on only the parts that screw you over and claim that is the entirety of every game you play, while ignoring 95% of the games you do play that go to your benefit. Who are you trying to convince? Are you trying to convince us that the game is a sentient being made out to constantly screw with you or something? I hate to break it to you, but most of those issues you complain about are due to your own trappings. You make a lot of decisions that other people go , then get yourself screwed over. You don't aim fully on your shots. You refuse to use server aim, then claim RNG when your shot goes wide off the mark. You keep thinking that the mere act of "wiggling" your tank somehow puts a forcefield around your tank making it invulnerable.

I'm sorry, but everyone else is screwed over by the game just as much as you are. The good players (myself not included since I make DERP mistakes all the time) do not exaggerate their odds by putting themselves into bad positions with no good options out.




I like you Lusulpher, you have a unique brand of gameplay and commentary that you just don't see anywhere else. But that won't stop me from calling things bullshit when they are bullshit.

[Mr Marram]

Can someone give me a tl;dr on lulsuphers post because stuff reading all of that.

Nothing worthy in it.

There never is really, it's about 10% relevant splurging.

[Xiang Jiao]

He is right about at least one thing. Zero damage crits need to stop.