Destruction Testing the New Wardec System (Ganks Included)

[xanral]

On the positive side now there is very little risk on joining this war as you'll only be "stuck" in it for 1-3 weeks (1 week of testing and possibly 2 more weeks if its made non-mutual).

[Glyken Touchon]

Well that didn't last long:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default...2&#post1456632

• Ally contracts have fixed length of two weeks
• Allies can not be part of mutual wars – defender cannot hire allies into mutual wars and existing ally contracts are cancelled (with a 24 hour grace period)

Would have been better to stop any new allies being added once the war went mutual (but allow existing contracts to be renewed).

[Tyrus Tenebros]

This is easily the best thing jade Constantine has ever done.

Edit: in b4 devswarm gets the dec mechanic changed to let them out of the war

Boom headshot

[teds :D]

i'm still not sure why anyone believes goonswam would give a shit. in the dull irrelevant nullsec alliances i've been in it was weird if you didn't have 5-6 active decs from like actual highsec-deccers and fellow nullsec alliances going at anytime. it's always been worse for goons.

[Jade Constantine]

On the positive side now there is very little risk on joining this war as you'll only be "stuck" in it for 1-3 weeks (1 week of testing and possibly 2 more weeks if its made non-mutual).

Problem is that people will now need to PAY to join the war and thats a bit sad. Only outfits that will likely be interested would those who would overwise be paying 500m isk a week to dec goonswarm (privateers and ophanage and that kind of alliance.).

Now, we could perhaps split the difference if SHC crew fancy putting an alliance in and perhaps pay the concord fee on that. I guess it depends what insane amount Mittani CCP decides on.

[xanral]

i'm still not sure why anyone believes goonswam would give a shit. in the dull irrelevant nullsec alliances i've been in it was weird if you didn't have 5-6 active decs from like actual highsec-deccers and fellow nullsec alliances going at anytime. it's always been worse for goons.

Probably it would not significantly affect their cash cow. With the ally system as it stands now though Goonswarm could have what would basically work out to be the same as 30-100 wars going under the old system. Probably quite a few of those allies would be interested in more than just camping trade hubs too so it could go from insignificant annoyance to minor annoyance.

A few months of a minor annoyance could magnify the morale reduction of any major setback Goonswarm might suffer in the 0.0 sov arena.

[xanral]

On the positive side now there is very little risk on joining this war as you'll only be "stuck" in it for 1-3 weeks (1 week of testing and possibly 2 more weeks if its made non-mutual).

Problem is that people will now need to PAY to join the war and thats a bit sad. Only outfits that will likely be interested would those who would overwise be paying 500m isk a week to dec goonswarm (privateers and ophanage and that kind of alliance.).

Now, we could perhaps split the difference if SHC crew fancy putting an alliance in and perhaps pay the concord fee on that. I guess it depends what insane amount Mittani CCP decides on.

Yeah I meant for the next few weeks the system will be run as is and anyone that was looking to participate before but didn't want to be in a foreverwar should sign up now and enjoy the 1-3 weeks left of this one.

[Mike deVoid]

Stop with the conspiracy theories.
It's not terribly surprising that CCP would consider fixing something like this. Regardless if Goons actually cared or not it was clearly quite broken, which is why you were excited about it in the first place. Time limits on allies is also something that's been requested since day zero.

Its been pretty confirmed that Mittani's puppet on the CSM from test alliance was whining about the wardec system on his behalf for the past month. Now sure, there were some fixes needed. The allied participation should not have been "forever" sure, the 2 week cycle was a decent fix. But adding an "exponential" multiplier to allied sign on fees that would make it cost more isk than exists in new eden to even come close to matching the number of aggressors that can sign on for 50m isk! is beyond retarded.

It was possible to fix the obvious problems without throwing out the baby with the bathwater. But in this instance the rivers of tears channeled through Donovan by Mittani's hand puppet manipulation has swept away all good sense and pretense of balance from the equation.

Pretty sure the only tears I'm detecting here are yours. Also, you don't even know what the cumulative cost of additional allies is yet so lol at "more isk than even exists in eve."

[Jade Constantine]

Stop with the conspiracy theories.
It's not terribly surprising that CCP would consider fixing something like this. Regardless if Goons actually cared or not it was clearly quite broken, which is why you were excited about it in the first place. Time limits on allies is also something that's been requested since day zero.

Its been pretty confirmed that Mittani's puppet on the CSM from test alliance was whining about the wardec system on his behalf for the past month. Now sure, there were some fixes needed. The allied participation should not have been "forever" sure, the 2 week cycle was a decent fix. But adding an "exponential" multiplier to allied sign on fees that would make it cost more isk than exists in new eden to even come close to matching the number of aggressors that can sign on for 50m isk! is beyond retarded.

It was possible to fix the obvious problems without throwing out the baby with the bathwater. But in this instance the rivers of tears channeled through Donovan by Mittani's hand puppet manipulation has swept away all good sense and pretense of balance from the equation.

Pretty sure the only tears I'm detecting here are yours. Also, you don't even know what the cumulative cost of additional allies is yet so lol at "more isk than even exists in eve."

Well I suggest you look up the word "Exponential" and then consider the possibility of CCP making the allied concord payment less than 1m isk for starters. Increase a 1m charge 33 times on an exponential curve and then get back to me with the results.

[Jade Constantine]

i'm still not sure why anyone believes goonswam would give a shit. in the dull irrelevant nullsec alliances i've been in it was weird if you didn't have 5-6 active decs from like actual highsec-deccers and fellow nullsec alliances going at anytime. it's always been worse for goons.

Test certainly gave a shit. Their CSM delegate has been balling his eyes out about it ever since Honda Accord kicked his alliance to oblivion (with the aid of their mercs). Its not really about isk or losses per say - its about pride and being the big dog in the highs of hisec'ers - Mittani's latest thing is about being the dark lord who can crush anyone he points his finger at. That boast becomes a bit ridiculous if (as in our case) the aggressors manage to lose 10b isk worth of hilarious ganks within 48 hours of starting the war.

[AmaNutin]

i'm still not sure why anyone believes goonswam would give a shit. in the dull irrelevant nullsec alliances i've been in it was weird if you didn't have 5-6 active decs from like actual highsec-deccers and fellow nullsec alliances going at anytime. it's always been worse for goons.

Test certainly gave a shit. Their CSM delegate has been balling his eyes out about it ever since Honda Accord kicked his alliance to oblivion (with the aid of their mercs). Its not really about isk or losses per say - its about pride and being the big dog in the highs of hisec'ers - Mittani's latest thing is about being the dark lord who can crush anyone he points his finger at. That boast becomes a bit ridiculous if (as in our case) the aggressors manage to lose 10b isk worth of hilarious ganks within 48 hours of starting the war.

Sounds definitely like how people would react to not getting things to go their way.

[teds :D]

i'm still not sure why anyone believes goonswam would give a shit. in the dull irrelevant nullsec alliances i've been in it was weird if you didn't have 5-6 active decs from like actual highsec-deccers and fellow nullsec alliances going at anytime. it's always been worse for goons.

Test certainly gave a shit. Their CSM delegate has been balling his eyes out about it ever since Honda Accord kicked his alliance to oblivion (with the aid of their mercs). Its not really about isk or losses per say - its about pride and being the big dog in the highs of hisec'ers - Mittani's latest thing is about being the dark lord who can crush anyone he points his finger at. That boast becomes a bit ridiculous if (as in our case) the aggressors manage to lose 10b isk worth of hilarious ganks within 48 hours of starting the war.

in all honestly if they only lost 10b in 2 days that's pretty good going for them - every alliance has the morons who afk-rhea tech around, mine veld in deadspace hulks and run motsu in thon golems. morons will moron, and thats why *any* large alliance is permadecced.

[Jade Constantine]

i'm still not sure why anyone believes goonswam would give a shit. in the dull irrelevant nullsec alliances i've been in it was weird if you didn't have 5-6 active decs from like actual highsec-deccers and fellow nullsec alliances going at anytime. it's always been worse for goons.

Test certainly gave a shit. Their CSM delegate has been balling his eyes out about it ever since Honda Accord kicked his alliance to oblivion (with the aid of their mercs). Its not really about isk or losses per say - its about pride and being the big dog in the highs of hisec'ers - Mittani's latest thing is about being the dark lord who can crush anyone he points his finger at. That boast becomes a bit ridiculous if (as in our case) the aggressors manage to lose 10b isk worth of hilarious ganks within 48 hours of starting the war.

in all honestly if they only lost 10b in 2 days that's pretty good going for them - every alliance has the morons who afk-rhea tech around, mine veld in deadspace hulks and run motsu in thon golems. morons will moron, and thats why *any* large alliance is permadecced.

Yeah its not really the amount that counts in the grand picture though but the incidents of humiliation - I suspect when Mittani declared his war on us he rather liked the idea of me getting caught somewhere in a pimped CNR and called out on the forumz rather than having one of his boys caught in a moon-mineral laden ark. The isk is generally irrelevant - but counting coup is the name of the game.

Ah well, we'll see how it all goes. There are some possibilities even if CCP don't change their minds on this one.

[Mike deVoid]

Stop with the conspiracy theories.
It's not terribly surprising that CCP would consider fixing something like this. Regardless if Goons actually cared or not it was clearly quite broken, which is why you were excited about it in the first place. Time limits on allies is also something that's been requested since day zero.

Its been pretty confirmed that Mittani's puppet on the CSM from test alliance was whining about the wardec system on his behalf for the past month. Now sure, there were some fixes needed. The allied participation should not have been "forever" sure, the 2 week cycle was a decent fix. But adding an "exponential" multiplier to allied sign on fees that would make it cost more isk than exists in new eden to even come close to matching the number of aggressors that can sign on for 50m isk! is beyond retarded.

It was possible to fix the obvious problems without throwing out the baby with the bathwater. But in this instance the rivers of tears channeled through Donovan by Mittani's hand puppet manipulation has swept away all good sense and pretense of balance from the equation.

Pretty sure the only tears I'm detecting here are yours. Also, you don't even know what the cumulative cost of additional allies is yet so lol at "more isk than even exists in eve."

Well I suggest you look up the word "Exponential" and then consider the possibility of CCP making the allied concord payment less than 1m isk for starters. Increase a 1m charge 33 times on an exponential curve and then get back to me with the results.

The difference between the mathematical meaning of exponential and what non-mathematicians actually mean when they use that word is pretty big mate. It's definitely not going to genuinely be exponential.

[depili]

Stop with the conspiracy theories.
It's not terribly surprising that CCP would consider fixing something like this. Regardless if Goons actually cared or not it was clearly quite broken, which is why you were excited about it in the first place. Time limits on allies is also something that's been requested since day zero.

Its been pretty confirmed that Mittani's puppet on the CSM from test alliance was whining about the wardec system on his behalf for the past month. Now sure, there were some fixes needed. The allied participation should not have been "forever" sure, the 2 week cycle was a decent fix. But adding an "exponential" multiplier to allied sign on fees that would make it cost more isk than exists in new eden to even come close to matching the number of aggressors that can sign on for 50m isk! is beyond retarded.

It was possible to fix the obvious problems without throwing out the baby with the bathwater. But in this instance the rivers of tears channeled through Donovan by Mittani's hand puppet manipulation has swept away all good sense and pretense of balance from the equation.

Pretty sure the only tears I'm detecting here are yours. Also, you don't even know what the cumulative cost of additional allies is yet so lol at "more isk than even exists in eve."

Well I suggest you look up the word "Exponential" and then consider the possibility of CCP making the allied concord payment less than 1m isk for starters. Increase a 1m charge 33 times on an exponential curve and then get back to me with the results.

The difference between the mathematical meaning of exponential and what non-mathematicians actually mean when they use that word is pretty big mate. It's definitely not going to genuinely be exponential.

Why not? CCP has done that in the past, see office rents.

[Marlona Sky]

I'm still a bit confused on the new war dec mechanics.

How much did it cost goons to war dec jades alliance? How much would it cost jade to war dec goons?

[Jade Constantine]

Goons to wardec us about 50m isk per week.
Us to wardec goons about 500m isk per week.

[Marlona Sky]

CCP just locked that thread. lol

[Jade Constantine]

Was interesting see the CSM slightly divided on it all. Seleene was playing for the goon audience a bit. But its obviously a very contentious change because it does directly impact the largest alliance(s) in the game and largely protects them from the consequences of their wardecs.

[Rans]

It doesn't matter if they nerf it, Jade had a great idea and it would've been cool to see that happen. Sadly it was too open to abuse.