TMA The mechanics of Ancillary Shield Boosters

[Tawa Suyo]

If you want a 'proper' active setup then just use two of them and alternate which one is running. Only really doable with the L/XL since the smaller navy charges allow you to run for 52 seconds before you need to reload and you can always do a pulse (or maybe two) off of the main capacitor if you really need to before switching to the other booster.

Or you can just use a single one as pseudo-buffer and hope like hell you don't get over DPS'd (altho I guess that applies to dedicated active tanking too)

[Daneel Trevize]

By god the cap drain when these things run out of charges is maddening. Was mwd-ing about in a Cyclone, being kited but almost catching the guy with a scram, when suddenly completely 0 cap because the ASP ate it all. Repeated the situation a few times, learnt to be v careful about it if you plan to do anything more than run tackle & invuln. And even then. You think you're good because some ships have a decent cap when not using a regular shield booster, and then trip.

[xanral]

Now if someone could just confirm the details around interaction with ganglinks, crystals and blue pills/drugs (wonder if other drugs and things like CPRs actually decrease boost amount?).

works with everything except blue pills.

I wonder if it also does not work with the negative side-effects of boosters too. If you take standard crash and get the shield boost amount penalty would it affect the ancillary shield booster or not?

[Daneel Trevize]

Seriously, how to stop the cap drain at end of injected cycles? No auto-repeat means a lot of button spamming to run it, but should avoid all but 1 cycle of cap drain if you're paying attention. No auto reload means more than 60s before it's loaded again, but the option of raping your cap until you remember to tell it to reload.
I want it to auto cycle until empty, and then auto reload, no cap rape in between. (Unless I'm being a retard and fitting a large cap battery instead of an LSE, then maybe I'll want a cycle or two at most - basically never a useful feature).

[xanral]

Seriously, how to stop the cap drain at end of injected cycles? No auto-repeat means a lot of button spamming to run it, but should avoid all but 1 cycle of cap drain if you're paying attention. No auto reload means more than 60s before it's loaded again, but the option of raping your cap until you remember to tell it to reload.
I want it to auto cycle until empty, and then auto reload, no cap rape in between. (Unless I'm being a retard and fitting a large cap battery instead of an LSE, then maybe I'll want a cycle or two at most - basically never a useful feature).

I haven't had a problem managing it so far really. Wait till the last cap charge is being used then manually click off and it starts its auto reload cycle.

[Daneel Trevize]

It really needs a new icon at least. Stopping a cap or shield booster when tanking looks fucking wrong.

[Diziet]

With the large and xlg I think your better off turning auto cycle off. The mods cycle so fast that I think your wasting your boost by just continually running the mod. Unless your being pressed by a gang you can't tank anyways and can't kill in time before you run out of boost.

[Sponk]

So, 2x large ASB: why use them instead of 1x large SB + cap booster ?

[Varcaus]

Fitting? need a largeish cargo?

[Sponk]

Fitting? need a largeish cargo?

Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I: 85 tf + 150 MW
Medium electrochemical cap: 25 tf + 150MW

so, easier to fit than 2x

LASB: 100 tf + 150 MW

(add +30MW for T2 versions but it is still less CPU than to LASBs)

[xanral]

So, 2x large ASB: why use them instead of 1x large SB + cap booster ?

You're under heavy neut pressure with well spaced neuts. You'll end up getting more boost cycles with the ASBs (though probably be without your invul field) than the normal SB/cap booster combo. You can also double your burst tank for a few cycles to finish off that last target before your ship explodes from the blob on you. In a less neut heavy situation you're probably better off with the traditional setup (especially if you pimp your shield booster).

It seems to help quite a bit when you also have a vampire for the 2x large ASB ships so you can keep your point and possibly invul field running through neuts.

[Tsubutai]

So, 2x large ASB: why use them instead of 1x large SB + cap booster ?

First, the ASBs are more cap-efficient: you get 240 shield for 160* cap on a T2 LSB (and 336 shield for 160* cap from a Pith X-Type large), versus 390 shield for a 150 booster in an ALSB. Second, the ASB tank is neut-proof: if you're using a conventional active shield tank under heavy neuting and are spamming the cap booster, there's a good chance that you will only get to use some of the 800 cap you inject on each cycle, with any cap that isn't used *immediately* just being neuted away. That can't happen with ASBs. Third, the ancillary boosters are slightly more cargo-efficient than regular boosters. A navy 800 takes up 24m3 and gives you 5 cycles on your large shield booster. The navy 150s used in the ALSB take up 4.5m3 each, so your 24m3 gets you 5.3333 cycles on the ALSB (with each cycle giving you more shield than the conventional booster, ofc). Granted, this last point is complicated by the fact that your ship has some natural cap regen and you may be able to get through some situations with reduced cap injection or even without injecting cap at all. However, when your tank is under significant pressure, and especially if that's accompanied by neuting, the dual LASB setup is generally going to be considerably stronger and more resilient.

*With shield compensation V, this drops to 144 cap for the conventional shield boosters, meaning that the T2 LSB gives 1.67 shield per GJ of cap burned, the Pith X-Type large gives 2.33, and the T1 ALSB gives 2.6.

[prometheus]

oddly enough, you can't use these while warping.
reload yes, activate no

[Verybad]

They're pretty sick on frigs, since the fights are usually over so quickly the reload time is not that big a deal. A single MASB is better than an MSE especially considering the lack of a sig radius penalty. On a t1 ship with just a suitcase and two resist rigs for tank, a MASB gives about 3k EHP in 30 seconds. It just means you usually have to fit a co-pro instead of a MAPC.

Dual LASB cyclone is pretty amazing as well, ~500 dps sustainable tank with a heated invuln, 1000 dps if you're running both boosters.

Anything that makes neuts less effective and locally tanking more viable is swaggalicious in my book

[xanral]

Decided to run some numbers to do a comparison between the dual X-L ASB and a Pith X-Type X-LSB and a Dread Guristas X-LSB.

An example on my notation to avoid confusion: If you are +100% faster than a ship traveling 1000 m/s then that means you are traveling at 2000 m/s.

Case A description:
A 2 minute steady boost cycle (keep in mind that the ASB cannot boost all 60 seconds so its only 52/60 of the listed number) without links or crystals.

Case B description:
A 2 minute steady boost cycle with max tengu links (just resistance for the ASB as again we're looking at steady state and all 3 for the Pith and DG ones).

Case C description:
How efficient is the boost amount in m3. (assumes ASB never uses cap to boost and that the normal X-LSBs use only cap supplied by the booster)

Case D description:
The same as C but with Tengu links.

Case A-low neut (so the ASB cannot run off cap at all):
Dual X-L ASB is +40% stronger than the DG X-L
Dual X-L ASB is +1% stronger than the Pith X X-L

Case A-heavy neut (you can only get 1 boost on the normal X-LSBs a cap charge and are using navy 800s in a single T2 cap booster):
Dual X-L ASB is +384% stronger than the DG X-L
Dual X-L ASB is +245% stronger than the Pith X X-L

Case B-low neut (so the ASB cannot run at all off cap):
Pith X-L is +52% stronger than the Dual X-L ASB
DG X-L is +9% stronger than the Dual X-L ASB

Case C:
Dual X-L ASB is +47% more efficient than the DG X-L
Dual X-L ASB is +5% more efficient than the Pith X X-L

Case D :
DG X-L is +5% more efficient than the Dual X-L ASB
Pith X X-L is +47% more efficient than the Dual X-L ASB

[xanral]

I ran the numbers again with the changes going in for December. Using the same setup and cases as the ones above.

Case A-low neut:
DG X-L is 2% stronger than Dual X-L ASB
Pith X X-L is 43% stronger than Dual X-L ASB

Case A-high neut (as a note its assumed a T2 large cap booster for the normal SBs):
Dual X-L ASB is 227% stronger than DG X-L
Dual X-L ASB is 133% stronger than Pith X X-L

Case B-low neut:
DG X-L is 58% stronger than Dual X-L ASB
Pith X X-L is 118% stronger than Dual X-L ASB

Case C (no change):
Dual X-L ASB is +47% more efficient than the DG X-L
Dual X-L ASB is +5% more efficient than the Pith X X-L

Case D (no change):
DG X-L is +5% more efficient than the Dual X-L ASB
Pith X X-L is +47% more efficient than the Dual X-L ASB

ASBs with the nerf will now give the following raw shield HP total before needing a reload (assuming best cap charge size used and no ship cap used):
X-L ASB: 8820
L ASB: 3510
M ASB: 1022 (going off the estimate of 7 charges now)
S ASB: 364 (going off the estimate of 7 charges now)

For comparison Shield Extenders have the following values:
LSE II: 2625
MSE II: 1050
SSE II: 263
MicroSE II: 131

[Cue1*]

So, if I'm reading those numbers right, X-L ASBs and LASBs are still worth using, just not as powerful as before.

[Yankunytjatjara]

Worth noting that they take less grid then the same size extender, and more cpu, so depending on fit they can still be worth it.

In other words... Could it be... That they are... Dare I say

Balanced?