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Thread: CCP Decision on B Teams

  1. #1

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    CCP Decision on B Teams

    Dearest Alliance Tournament Interested Space Commanders,

    Many of you have seen that there have been a few changes to the rules between this year and last year’s tournament. Aside from the usual yearly tweaks in format and ship composition we’ve also had to add or change some rules in order to provide an environment of fair competition, or as fair as competition can be within EVE. We learned as a team last year that in order to provide a fair environment for the entire EVE audience we need to be a lot more careful with the sometimes hard-to-gauge overlap in alliances in order to ensure that the tournament wasn’t simply packed with the B and C teams of immensely influential or powerful alliances. This is the EVE Alliance Tournament which we believe should be a venue for as many of the alliances as possible from within New Eden to compete for the top prize. We don’t believe that a small alliance who can only field one team should struggle against the odds simply to be a competitor with the odds stacked against them by people who have the capacity to essentially place multiple bets.

    In addition to our concerns about smaller teams even being able to gain entry we’ve encountered a situation where carefully coordinated collusion between alliances, which from the tournament perspective operate as a single logical unit, can also twist the results which in our view presents an equally unfair playing field. This is not at all to say that there’s no place for metagaming of any kind in the tournament. This is EVE afterall and that represents a critical component of the universe we all enjoy. It does mean however that we need to pay increased attention to situations where there is a negative situation and enforce our rules equally and fairly in the spirit for which they were made.

    It is because of these philosophical beliefs and changes that we have come to the tough decision of removing three teams from eligibility for competition in Alliance Tournament X.

    It was widely known after the finals last year that Hydra Reloaded and Outbreak. had worked together as a single unit in order to game the competition. It was our hope that they would take their winnings and enter this year’s tournament as separate entities without having to consider a replay of last year. They are both individually highly competitive teams and when they are working in their own interests they are among the best. Unfortunately Hydra and Outbreak are working from the same playbook as last year, practicing together in a single corporation on the test server in a single wormhole. We view them as they represent themselves, which mirrors how they represented themselves last year, as a single entity. For that reason they are barred from competition having entered the tournament masquerading as two units while functioning in reality as one.

    YOUR VOTES DON’T COUNT is an alliance consisting of a holding corporation and Sniggwaffe, which is widely known as the farm team for Sniggerdly. This is a fact which they openly admit. Unfortunately given that fact, and given the fact that the team captain and CEO bounce regularly between or have alts in Pandemic Legion, we cannot consider them anything other than a B team for Pandemic Legion and as such have to remove them from eligibility for competition.

    Other than removal from competition none of the teams affected will be penalized in any way and their application fees will be returned.

    We know that some of you will agree with this decision and some of you, clearly those removed, will not. We have not gone into it lightly and have spent multiple hours deliberating about it. We are however, unanimous in this decision given the weight of the evidence and felt it best to get this out of the way prior to any bidding in the auction this evening. Ultimately we feel that the equal enforcement of these rules is necessary in order to provide a competitive and fair tournament environment and that was the basis for our decision. We apologize to those affected sincerely that we did not make this decision any sooner, but it was not one that was made lightly and needed to be given due attention. While we understand that some of you may be a bit put off please try to maintain some modicum of decorum (that means don’t be a butt) on the forums as the rules haven’t changed and we won’t be here to see your rage this evening as we’re running the auctions.

    I also want to note that we will be continuing these investigations throughout the tournament and there may at later stages be teams that choose to game the system. Should that occur we will edit this thread and include additional information related to their removal.

    With all that said we’re looking forward to moving on and making Alliance Tournament X the best and most competitive tournament ever so enjoy the rest of your evening!

    Running list of removed teams:

    Hydra Reloaded
    Outbreak.
    YOUR VOTES DON’T COUNT(Sniggwaffe)


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    I'm sure it's frustrating to be sperging about how someone said "no, not doing that yet" - but we've had 7 years to learn to pace ourselves after killing a block. And I dare say -- we've gotten quite good at it.

    Sorry if it doesn't suit the armchair generals who have never committed to anything for more than 2 months, but by now we've learned that we really don't give a shit about what you think v0v.

  2. #2

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    Haha, oh wow.

    So TEST & Goons practice together, but Outbreak and HYDRA can't...?

  3. #3
    rojomojo915's Avatar
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    Well fuck, Im pretty upset right now.

  4. #4
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    This has to be a troll. I mean, it's official, but seriously, Sreegs be trollin', or Summer of Rage 2.0 is right on track.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    This has to be a troll. I mean, it's official, but seriously, Sreegs be trollin', or Summer of Rage 2.0 is right on track.
    I doubt that - most people see us as the villain despite doing nothing wrong and practicing like many others have too.

    Your random EVE player will not care that HYDRA & Outbreak were removed from the tournament. Your random EVE player only cares about things that actually changes EVE for him.

    edit: anyway, official response is coming
    Last edited by Intigo; May 24 2012 at 06:41:19 PM.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Intigo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    This has to be a troll. I mean, it's official, but seriously, Sreegs be trollin', or Summer of Rage 2.0 is right on track.
    I doubt that - most people see us as the villain despite doing nothing wrong and practicing like many others have too.

    Your random EVE player will not care that HYDRA & Outbreak were removed from the tournament. Your random EVE player only cares about things that actually changes EVE for him.
    But you also have a history of not being competetive
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  7. #7
    rojomojo915's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intigo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    This has to be a troll. I mean, it's official, but seriously, Sreegs be trollin', or Summer of Rage 2.0 is right on track.
    I doubt that - most people see us as the villain despite doing nothing wrong and practicing like many others have too.

    Your random EVE player will not care that HYDRA & Outbreak were removed from the tournament. Your random EVE player only cares about things that actually changes EVE for him.
    To be fair, Hydra/Outbreak did shoot themselves in the foot if they were really testing together. You could see how in CCP's eyes that if both Hydra/Outbreak made it to the finals again they would think history would repeat itself.

    Im hoping that if both Hydra/Outbreak had made it to finals this year you would of fought it out, but now we will never know.

    Edit: I do agree w/ the sentiment on the EVE forums though that either Hydra or Outbreak should have been allowed to enter.
    Last edited by rojomojo915; May 24 2012 at 06:46:29 PM.

  8. #8
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivqua View Post
    But you also have a history of not being competetive
    Not competetive, or too competitive?
    Quote Originally Posted by rojomojo915 View Post
    Im hoping that if both Hydra/Outbreak had made it to finals this year you would of fought it out, but now we will never know.
    Fight, for your right, to party!

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    TEST Alliance is GSF B Team. Kickickick

  10. #10
    Ampoliros's Avatar
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    Did Hydra/Outbreak ask CCP how they'd be allowed to enter like RvB did?

  11. #11
    rojomojo915's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ampoliros View Post
    Did Hydra/Outbreak ask CCP if how they'd be allowed to enter as separate teams or whatever like RvB did?
    Looks like they actually asked CCP if they could test together before starting to test and never got a response.

    Edit: Although I doubt that CCP was thinking about this back when Hydra probably started testing in January or something crazy like that.
    Last edited by rojomojo915; May 24 2012 at 07:10:18 PM.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by rojomojo915 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampoliros View Post
    Did Hydra/Outbreak ask CCP if how they'd be allowed to enter as separate teams or whatever like RvB did?
    Looks like they actually asked CCP if they could test together before starting to test and never got a response.

    Edit: Although I doubt that CCP was thinking about this back when Hydra probably started testing in January or something crazy like that.
    not entirely true

    and we didn't test in january ffs haha

  13. #13
    rojomojo915's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intigo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rojomojo915 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampoliros View Post
    Did Hydra/Outbreak ask CCP if how they'd be allowed to enter as separate teams or whatever like RvB did?
    Looks like they actually asked CCP if they could test together before starting to test and never got a response.

    Edit: Although I doubt that CCP was thinking about this back when Hydra probably started testing in January or something crazy like that.
    not entirely true

    and we didn't test in january ffs haha
    So what actually happened then? I think most of us want to know.

  14. #14

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    https://forums.eveonline.com/default...02#post1356702 zara post is up

    not sure if that's "official hydra response"

    edit: Garmon posted right after, read that instead

    Senior GM confirmed that it was ok to practice together, other petitions / mails were left unanswered
    Last edited by Intigo; May 24 2012 at 07:19:59 PM.

  15. #15
    Donor Rans's Avatar
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    Well, this seems a bit vindictive.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ampoliros View Post
    Did Hydra/Outbreak ask CCP how they'd be allowed to enter like RvB did?
    We asked them multiple times if we were allowed to test together through e-mails to the eve tv mailing address and petitions.

    We got a response from one senior GM who said it was fine to test together.

    However the tournament team ignored us completely until they decided to ban us for it.

  17. #17

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    To be honest, this shows that the Alliance Tournament as a CCP run event is bankrupt. You create a game that is basically tailor-made for plotting, scheming and cheating, and then you try to 'force' something to be 'fair'. As much as I love AT as it was intended, I don't think that it fits with EVE as the game as it currently is. If you want an event like the alliance tournament, then give players the tools to organize it. More toys in the sand box, less CCP interference.
    - don't confuse the fact that I like to be right with the rumours that I actually might be -

    (DaDutchDude is in EVE hibernation in Some Random Corporation)

  18. #18
    rojomojo915's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rans View Post
    Well, this seems a bit vindictive.
    As my corp mate said, its been 6 years since Kugu and CCP is still mad. Im starting to think that Hydra and Outbreak can expect the same treatment.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaDutchDude View Post
    To be honest, this shows that the Alliance Tournament as a CCP run event is bankrupt. You create a game that is basically tailor-made for plotting, scheming and cheating, and then you try to 'force' something to be 'fair'. As much as I love AT as it was intended, I don't think that it fits with EVE as the game as it currently is. If you want an event like the alliance tournament, then give players the tools to organize it. More toys in the sand box, less CCP interference.
    Even if what you say is true, if you read Garmons post you'll find that we asked CCP multiple times about the legality of things and received only on reply, from a Senior GM, that it was ok to practice together

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default...76#post1356876 also explains why everyone is in one corp, just like everyone from the PL or DarkSide team is

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Intigo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaDutchDude View Post
    To be honest, this shows that the Alliance Tournament as a CCP run event is bankrupt. You create a game that is basically tailor-made for plotting, scheming and cheating, and then you try to 'force' something to be 'fair'. As much as I love AT as it was intended, I don't think that it fits with EVE as the game as it currently is. If you want an event like the alliance tournament, then give players the tools to organize it. More toys in the sand box, less CCP interference.
    Even if what you say is true, if you read Garmons post you'll find that we asked CCP multiple times about the legality of things and received only on reply, from a Senior GM, that it was ok to practice together

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default...76#post1356876 also explains why everyone is in one corp, just like everyone from the PL or DarkSide team is
    The PL and Darkside teams are in one corp since we are each one team and therefore it doesn't matter if we have complete access to all of the setups in our wormhole.

    If Hydra and 0utbreak are supposed to be seperate teams that just test together when numbers are low, you wouldn't want the lack of secrecy or independance that comes from being in one corp.

    I agree with Tyrrax, that one corp thing is probably what put you over the edge.

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