Sniping, gone forever?

[TZeer]

Have something changed lately?

Or is sniping as useless as last time I tried it? (Last year)

That time, probing out a ship on a gate would take 5 sec. Just locking a ship takes roughly 5sec... Add warp animation, slowing down from warp, realigning, etc, And we are basically talking about a dead sniper...

Everyone happy with close/medium range gangs, with remoterep and what not? And is it just me who misses the ability to snipe.


Before anyone starts sperging, I`m not asking for unprobable stuff. I just wish it was possible to use a sniper without getting probed in 5 sec.

[LordsServant]

It's still possible, but it requires an extremely competent fc and an unquestioning fleet who follows Fcs orders to the letter.

Also, it depends what you call sniping tbh. While it's doable at 150+, ideally u wanna be at 100-150.

Bs fleet sniping doesn't work at all without absurd amounts of isk thrown at it; it's more of a "because we can" rather than a proper fleet comp as u can get a much more effective fleet for the isk spent.

[Miriam Sasko]

In small scale, heavy tackler + sniping tier3s is rapidly becoming fotm. But that is in ranges between 70 and 140km or so, depending on which weapon system we are looking at.

[Smuggo]

In small scale, heavy tackler + sniping tier3s is rapidly becoming fotm. But that is in ranges between 70 and 140km or so, depending on which weapon system we are looking at.

Only really seems to be a trend amongst station hugging bads who want to scare off nano attackers. Not seen it being used in any kind of serious fights.

[Varcaus]

In small scale, heavy tackler + sniping tier3s is rapidly becoming fotm. But that is in ranges between 70 and 140km or so, depending on which weapon system we are looking at.

Only really seems to be a trend amongst station hugging bads who want to scare off nano attackers. Not seen it being used in any kind of serious fights.

Nano fag mad that teir 3s wreck most nano ships real fast. nbs

[Smuggo]

In small scale, heavy tackler + sniping tier3s is rapidly becoming fotm. But that is in ranges between 70 and 140km or so, depending on which weapon system we are looking at.

Only really seems to be a trend amongst station hugging bads who want to scare off nano attackers. Not seen it being used in any kind of serious fights.

Nano fag mad that teir 3s wreck most nano ships real fast. nbs

They're easily countered tbh. http://idol.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_rel...ll_id=12050598

[Varcaus]

In small scale, heavy tackler + sniping tier3s is rapidly becoming fotm. But that is in ranges between 70 and 140km or so, depending on which weapon system we are looking at.

Only really seems to be a trend amongst station hugging bads who want to scare off nano attackers. Not seen it being used in any kind of serious fights.

Nano fag mad that teir 3s wreck most nano ships real fast. nbs

They're easily countered tbh. http://idol.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_rel...ll_id=12050598

Well yeah not like they have that much ehp.

[whispous]

In snuff box at the moment, alpha mael gangs are our toughest nut to crack. It's typically russians when we have ~POSWARS~ and they use mixtures of pests, maels and tornados in numbers great enough to alpha any regular bs. They are at about 90km, which is what I would consider sniper range.

[Aloe]

In snuff box at the moment, alpha mael gangs are our toughest nut to crack. It's typically russians when we have ~POSWARS~ and they use mixtures of pests, maels and tornados in numbers great enough to alpha any regular bs. They are at about 90km, which is what I would consider sniper range.

I hope the new microjumpdrive thing becomes A Thing. Unfortunately, it sounds like there's a spool-up time (during which the badguys have already started aligning out while plowing your arse with artillery so ... yeah, probably not)

e: oh, there's that other module supposed to break locks whose chance of success scales exponentially with the number of people locking you so that might sorta possibly in a way counter the fuckoff alpha game or w/e I guess we'll see

[LordsServant]

The issue with the current loltier3BC fotm ships is that noone seems to understand how to counter them - bombers help, but that's not the key.

I am personally not a fan of tier 3 BC fleets for anything other than c1 POS bashing - tier 3 BCs combine several bad things:

-the low ehp of a cruiser
-the shit tracking/sig stuff of BS weapons

What you end up with are ships that put out nice dps numbers in eft, but crumple very quickly under any sort of focused dps. I have already theorycrafted and tested a fleet comp with narwhals that (among other things) utterly dismantles any and all tier 3 BC fleets it comes across. I won't be posting fits here until we've done more extensive testing and/or have a better BR to post.

Thinking outside the box is key here.

[OrangeAfroMan]

We use Tr3s a lot, but the 'sniping' envelope is 70-130km. A competent enemy could counter them, most likely, but we haven't really run into that yet.

http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid=6843

[RoemySchneider]

Before anyone starts sperging, I`m not asking for unprobable stuff. I just wish it was possible to use a sniper without getting probed in 5 sec.

we never 'sperged' about your desire for unprobe'able stuff. it was about demanding a concept that could only be beaten by 'itself' being the only design that could shoot that far and everything that came running.

90-130km sniping is all you're ever going to get and the indirect tracking one gains from that range is more than ample.

and before you go reminiscing about the (g)olden days... it only existed because people couldn't be bothered to skill probing before explorations were introduced, but we still probed stuff within 5AU in 30 seconds or less (scimitar always had that extra cpu even before the RR changes about 6years ago -.-). changing the cycle time of probe results will not change this aspect one bit.
so... there's nothing to 'go back to' either unless you wish to remove probing skills, plexes, wormholes and everything else that requires/incentiv...izes probing. in that regard, yes, sniping is gone forever.


besides... we mostly used sniping so we wouldnt lose anything vs deathstars and then has to use the same ships for pvp as best as we could
feel free to dump some of the blame on supercaps; first we had to tank our BS in order to survive at least one AoE doomsday, and then we decided to bring RR on them, too, because logis wouldnt survive said doomsday.
well... and ofc supercaps have been used to raep POS all by themselves for at least four years now due to their EW immunity, for example.

[Mfume]

That time, probing out a ship on a gate would take 5 sec. Just locking a ship takes roughly 5sec... Add warp animation, slowing down from warp, realigning, etc, And we are basically talking about a dead sniper...

No, you just keep a frig 200km off, going towards your align point and when you see them warp, you fleetwarp to the ceptor at 100 and continue sniping.

Everyone happy with close/medium range gangs, with remoterep and what not? And is it just me who misses the ability to snipe.

Before anyone starts sperging, I`m not asking for unprobable stuff. I just wish it was possible to use a sniper without getting probed in 5 sec.

Being probed doesn't matter if you're all aligned and the FC is competent enough to fleetwarp.

That being said: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=13240271
Don't take snipers against a serious fleet comp flown by competent opposition.

[TZeer]

but we still probed stuff within 5AU in 30 seconds or less

25-30 sec would make me a happy sniper tbh.

going towards your align point and when you see them warp, you fleetwarp to the ceptor at 100 and continue sniping.

Being probed doesn't matter if you're all aligned and the FC is competent enough to fleetwarp.

You are assuming you have time to align before someone is on top of you.
Last time I tested this, and I don't think anything has changed, we could get a prober/tackler on top of the sniper before he had even aligned out again.


Another thing that bothers me is that it doesn't matter if the ship is still in warp when the scan starts. All that matters is that the ship is out of warp when the scan finishes.

[whispous]

A big problem I think should not be overlooked is that sniping today goes hand in hand with alpha, which is bad

[n0th]

Warp range up to 200k (or maybe even 250), problem solved.
Would cause enormous rage though, because of all those tactical spots being useless. So not gonna happen.

[Mfume]

going towards your align point and when you see them warp, you fleetwarp to the ceptor at 100 and continue sniping.

Being probed doesn't matter if you're all aligned and the FC is competent enough to fleetwarp.

You are assuming you have time to align before someone is on top of you.

Last time I tested this, and I don't think anything has changed, we could get a prober/tackler on top of the sniper before he had even aligned out again.

It requires a perfect setup and execution though. And using Tier 3s, you're fast enough to burn out of the bubble(s) and warp to your rolling spot.

[Zeekar]

In snuff box at the moment, alpha mael gangs are our toughest nut to crack. It's typically russians when we have ~POSWARS~ and they use mixtures of pests, maels and tornados in numbers great enough to alpha any regular bs. They are at about 90km, which is what I would consider sniper range.

Depends on your numbers but try rokhs against them, you should be able to kill them without TOO much problem.

That time, probing out a ship on a gate would take 5 sec. Just locking a ship takes roughly 5sec... Add warp animation, slowing down from warp, realigning, etc, And we are basically talking about a dead sniper...

No, you just keep a frig 200km off, going towards your align point and when you see them warp, you fleetwarp to the ceptor at 100 and continue sniping.

Everyone happy with close/medium range gangs, with remoterep and what not? And is it just me who misses the ability to snipe.

Before anyone starts sperging, I`m not asking for unprobable stuff. I just wish it was possible to use a sniper without getting probed in 5 sec.

Being probed doesn't matter if you're all aligned and the FC is competent enough to fleetwarp.

That being said: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=13240271
Don't take snipers against a serious fleet comp flown by competent opposition.

Thats pretty much the worse fleet composition to face with tornados, the other would be rokhs. They are pretty bad for going for it.

going towards your align point and when you see them warp, you fleetwarp to the ceptor at 100 and continue sniping.

Being probed doesn't matter if you're all aligned and the FC is competent enough to fleetwarp.

You are assuming you have time to align before someone is on top of you.

Last time I tested this, and I don't think anything has changed, we could get a prober/tackler on top of the sniper before he had even aligned out again.

It requires a perfect setup and execution though. And using Tier 3s, you're fast enough to burn out of the bubble(s) and warp to your rolling spot.

Meh, tier3s pop so god damn fast that i wouldn't be so sure you can burn out in time. Example one of the fights i fced: http://rdnkb.squig.de/?a=kill_relate...57136&battle=1
They jumped in, gate was bubbled and most guys that died, died here on the jumpin. We managed to get a couple of more by warping on top but that was usually the problem with bad warpins, if we got a good one the br would even look worse for them.

[OrangeAfroMan]

Jesus that's a lot of Scimitars on both sides. So glad I don't do 200man vs 200man shit.

[Mfume]

Jesus that's a lot of Scimitars on both sides. So glad I don't do 200man vs 200man shit.

It's not impossible to work with. That many Abaddons would've vollied (or come close enough) any of the subcaps present there, including the Vulture and Claymore.