If you think Dust would have been more successful in its initial year by launching on PC rather than PS3 you are wrong, simple as.
If you think Dust would have been more successful in its initial year by launching on PC rather than PS3 you are wrong, simple as.
Your wonderfully detailed arguments are a joy to read as always.
I'll fill in some detail for him then:Originally Posted by Nax
Releasing it as ps3 exclusive does several things for ccp:
1) money/development support from sony
2) press hype about "zomg ps3 shooter exclusive from company that maeks eve!111"
3) free press from the irrelevant group of pc gamers raging about it (more on that later)
4) divorcing dust from eve. Remember that perception that a lot of non-eve players have about "There are people who have been training skills since beta and I'll never catch up so why bother"? They probably want to mitigate some of that in dust, and limiting the ability of the 0.0 poopsocking powergamers to swarm all over dust and play it while multiboxing 4 titans in a fleet fight probably helps.
Now remember the irrelevant group of PC gamers? Once dust begins losing steam, ccp will port it over to PC (and/or next gen PS). They'll get more free press, all of you people raging about how it's not on PC will go flock out to buy it, and they get a fresh injection of new players. win/win/win for ccp.
edit: and they can also try to spin it as "we saw all of the demand from all our dedicated fans about wanting a PC port, so we've decided to listen" (even thought they've been planning one all along).
I'm simply looking forward to the endless rage of speglords in eve QQing on the forums about losing space, ships and whatever to console players. All the while demanding nerfs and or complete separation from eve.
The tears will be glorious!
You're being very optimistic of the amount of people that will play it
and that the link with eve wont be prenerfed to nothingYou're being very optimistic of the amount of people that will play it
If this ever happens it will probably be the greatest tear harvesting season in history. Judging by the disdain and utter contempt a fair number of people on this forum (and many others ofc.) show for console gamers, the rage of losing sov to them would be hysterical.
Firstly Lallante was arguing against the straw man that CCP should abandon the PS3 launch and launch only on the PC.
Secondly...
You are simply arguing for what CCP has done. Are you seriously trying to tell me that if CCP had come out and said that they were doing simultaneous releases for as many platforms as they were able to that you would be here arguing for a staged release?
If you were responsible for advertising for the next iteration of Call of Duty then would you suggest a staged release? Of course not. You're simply justifying the fail of CCP. The most successful FPS release ever was... a simultaneous release. Not least because you only have to have one broad marketing campaign rather than a different marketing campaign at different times for each different platform.
The free press is nice, but if CCP is releasing it across more platforms because they've failed to build up a large enough user base then the 'free press' will be that Dust is already a failure. Not the most inspired marketing campaign that I've ever heard.
Now it appears to be the case that CCP has got some support from Sony but we all know that the only reason that they've needed that support is because of the catastrophic failures in management and design that they've gone through over the last three years or so. From PI through the Captains Closet via the MT Store to sparkly vampires they've poured millions into shitty products. We can hope that Dust is a reversal to this trend but when they can't even describe the link with Eve, which is the main thing that differentiates their shooter from all the other shooters written by people who are actually good at writing shooters, then evidence suggests that the malaise at CCP is ongoing.
As a player, I'm against staged releases, as they're generally pretty pointless. But from ccps standpoint it could make some sense. They basically have a choice between gamboling that a massive release on all platforms will generate enough interest to keep the game going for years to come, or gamboling that they can keep it going by injecting new players every so often with a staged release. I'd say its about 50-50 between the two choices, but sony will help them out if they go with the staged release, so it makes sense enough that that's what they chose.
Because the point of CoD was to grab the money from the initial sales bubble and run. Unlike CoD (and most other fps games) dust is planned to be around for presumably as long as eve will be.
That makes sense if your goal is to make money on the initial sales. Not so much with a persistent fps.
Like I said at the end of my last post, it wouldn't be because of a failure to build up enough playerbase, it would be because "all of you asked for it and ccp listened". I would predict that they'll have the thing sitting ready to go within 6 months, and release it as soon as the numbers from the initial console release start to slump (be it in 6 months or 6 years).
Uhhh.. They needed sony's support because they've never coded for consoles before (and never made an fps before afaik). I'm pretty sure that decision was already made before they realized what a bad job they were doing. And why turn down free support if all you have to do is agree to console exclusivity for a short duration that no one will care about 5 years from now (assuming the game is still going).
No I wasnt. I think it should exclusively launch on PS3 because of the HUGE publicity and promotional benefits that will bring, plus the massive reduction of development time needed to go cross-platform.Firstly Lallante was arguing against the straw man that CCP should abandon the PS3 launch and launch only on the PC.
Secondly...
You are simply arguing for what CCP has done. Are you seriously trying to tell me that if CCP had come out and said that they were doing simultaneous releases for as many platforms as they were able to that you would be here arguing for a staged release?
If you were responsible for advertising for the next iteration of Call of Duty then would you suggest a staged release? Of course not. You're simply justifying the fail of CCP. The most successful FPS release ever was... a simultaneous release. Not least because you only have to have one broad marketing campaign rather than a different marketing campaign at different times for each different platform.
The free press is nice, but if CCP is releasing it across more platforms because they've failed to build up a large enough user base then the 'free press' will be that Dust is already a failure. Not the most inspired marketing campaign that I've ever heard.
Now it appears to be the case that CCP has got some support from Sony but we all know that the only reason that they've needed that support is because of the catastrophic failures in management and design that they've gone through over the last three years or so. From PI through the Captains Closet via the MT Store to sparkly vampires they've poured millions into shitty products. We can hope that Dust is a reversal to this trend but when they can't even describe the link with Eve, which is the main thing that differentiates their shooter from all the other shooters written by people who are actually good at writing shooters, then evidence suggests that the malaise at CCP is ongoing.
I think it should consider opening up to PC in 18 months UNLESS it goes PS4 launch title.
CCP wouldnt be getting the press its getting if it was cross platform. The game would be a mishmash of compromises (more so than it is already). Sony are obviously pulling lots of strings behind the scenes (Dust is the second feature in next months PS magazine for example), giving benefits CCP just couldnt achieve on its own.
I predict literally millions of players for Dust initially, and if that settles down to a core paying playerbase of 50k+ thats still a hell of a lot more than a PC launch would have produced.
All of these stupid retarded issues and arguments vanish into thin air if it was just released on PC. The PC is the perfect platform for this game; it's the most powerful, it has the best online capability, best controls, the players for it already exist, updates are an accepted part of playing the game...
You can justify with a million arguments, a billion bad arguments; but the fact remains that the decision by CCP to not release (at least initially) on PC is the wrong one.
It's like if Ferrari came out with their next car, the successor to the 458. They've got orders lined up worldwide by people just waiting to drive their new car. Then they announce that it runs on custard and it will explode if you drive it on a road. There's being daring and pushing boundaries, and there's being just plain fucking retarded.
I, too, am objectively right. Let me show you by making unsupported and false statements followed by a truly atrocious analogy!
Make isk with PICountries do not exist where I am from. The discovery of the Higgs boson led to limitless power, the elimination of poverty and Kit-Kats for everyone. It is a communist chocolate hellhole and I'm here to stop it ever happening.
The Great Tracking Nerf v0.1
My fav ECM alternative
No I wasnt.Straw man = People are proposing that Dust would have been more successful if it launched on PC rather than PS3.
You argued against this.
I have no idea why exclusively launching on the PS3 would result in a massive reduction of development time needed to go cross-platform rather than just writing the thing cross-platform to begin with. Please explain. But, given that CCP have already demoed Dust on an xBox and PS3 and are apparently developing it on a PC the point is moot.
So according to you the game would need more compromises to go cross platform (ignoring the fact that it has been developed to be cross platform) which CCP doesn't need to make because it's PS3 only and yet you expect it to go cross platform in the future at which point they would... have to implement those compromises and presumably remove features from the PS3 version!?
Btw, the second feature in May's PS magazins appears to be a sneak peak at Assassin's Creed 3 - the cross platform game available on PC, xBox and PS3. I guess we should expect them to be announcing that they're shifting AC3 to PS3 availability only in honor of getting this prized magazine placement?
You're still missing the point. Games like assassins creed are largely singleplayer, and make the majority of their money from initial sales. They aren't designed to be persistent, and the studio will probably consider themselves lucky if they keep making decent profit from it a year from now.
An MMO doesn't need big initial numbers, it needs a constant trickle of players. It already has enough interest from randoms with PS3s to get it going initially, so it would be to ccps benefit to inject players over time with a staggered release and not blow it all on a massive surge in the beginning. I suspect they also like laughing at you crying over it.
If you want an example of a game that did poorly because of blown hype, look at stellar impact. TB did a video on it while it was still very beta, and their servers got swamped. The game was fun-ish, but poorly optimized (still is for all I know), horrible netcode, had the worst of both worlds when it came to stats tracking, and generally suffered form the sorts of issues you'd see during a beta. People rapidly lost interest and within a month the game was down from a few thousand players to literally 20 at peak. Now they apparently released it on steam, but no one cares because they all remember it as that crappy game that lagged a bunch. Had there been a way wave a magic wand and get 100 people a week to try it out for 10 weeks instead of 1000 all at once, they could have maintained sufficient population to remain playable while keeping enough momentum at launch for people to actually care.
why are people comparing dust to games that are not team fortress?
Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.
"You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."
Where in this statement am I wrong?
I don't know, it just seems like CCP are trying to get in on the success of games like Modern Warfare 2, about 2 years too late. And being completely oblivious to the fact that they are not fucking Activision.
And at least i'm making an argument. I haven't seen you make a single argument in this thread, only saying how wrong mine is. There isn't a supported statement about Dust because it hasn't been released yet, and there aren't many similar situations of an MMO company making an FPS on a completely different platform. All this thread is, is conjecture and arguments based on opinions. But you haven't fucking offered one yet!
Go fuck yourself and go fuck your shitty 'mildly amusing for three seconds image macro from three years ago' avatar.
Last edited by Al Simmons; May 13 2012 at 05:45:45 AM.
Make isk with PICountries do not exist where I am from. The discovery of the Higgs boson led to limitless power, the elimination of poverty and Kit-Kats for everyone. It is a communist chocolate hellhole and I'm here to stop it ever happening.
The Great Tracking Nerf v0.1
My fav ECM alternative
Another interesting facet of DUST514 on PS3 initially is that if the integration is tight with Eve, i.e. your efforts are reflected primarily and persistently in the Eve world, then you're basically asking consolites to be satisfied with accomplishments that may not even be visible to them.
It is probably fair to say that a lot of PC gamers also have a console, but I'm not entirely sure the reverse is equally true. There are a number of casual gamers who only have a console, they may have a PC but it may be pure shit for gaming and/or they may never have heard of Eve and if they have may not be want to be paying a subscription to play it. If you've just won a CTF game in DUST would you care that this translated to Goonswarm losing level 5 in a military index somewhere? Who are Goonswarm to you? You've quite possibly never heard of them and what they do doesn't affect you in the slightest.
DUST will therefore imo need to have strong accomplishments & achievements (god knows console boys love them) that are confined to the game itself. It will have to stand alone as a meaty FPS game that encourages repeat playing. The idea that what people do in it will have implications in Eve is an interesting conceit and certainly one that will earn it some more attention than your average FPS (e.g. Resistance, Killzone, etc), but there is great risk imo in making that integration tight and significant - not least of which because if/when DUST dies a death, what is going to fill that void for Eve? It also assumes that your average console gamer even cares about what happens in Eve, or even knows what Eve is beyond what the box inlay tells them.
Last edited by Durzel; May 13 2012 at 01:37:24 PM.
My take on it is that the Dust matches are meaningful for the Eve universe as so there is your incentive to pay dust mercs to turn up.
Also, it does seem apparent that once you own territory then your dust corp benefits from once you install infrastructure. Details haven't been forthcoming about that aspect much though.
Make isk with PICountries do not exist where I am from. The discovery of the Higgs boson led to limitless power, the elimination of poverty and Kit-Kats for everyone. It is a communist chocolate hellhole and I'm here to stop it ever happening.
The Great Tracking Nerf v0.1
My fav ECM alternative
Corps (note, no such thing as "dust corps") will get a passive income of materials, possibly moon mats, fuel etc, its not obvious exactly yet, from controlling districts.
Al Simmons you are hilarious, mad and incredibly bad. "At least I've made an argument!" - lol - "the fact remains I am right" is not an argument. At least when I do it I am trolling.
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