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Thread: The official "wah wah not on PC/Hate on CCP thread"

  1. #21
    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    Pretty sure you're not gonna take it any more.

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  2. #22
    Donor Mike deVoid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Simmons View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike deVoid View Post
    Pretty sure the OP was deliberate flamebait
    Pretty sure you're mad as hell.
    Confirming mad~. Can you let me know what about too?
    Quote Originally Posted by CCP Cmdr Wang on patchnote feedback
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  3. #23
    Mr Marram's Avatar
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    This thread is relevant to my interests (but not aligned with my views).


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  4. #24
    Al Simmons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike deVoid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Simmons View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike deVoid View Post
    Pretty sure the OP was deliberate flamebait
    Pretty sure you're mad as hell.
    Confirming mad~. Can you let me know what about too?


    Someone who has a different opinion than you is not a troll.

  5. #25
    Donor Mike deVoid's Avatar
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    lol.

    Oh, you mean the post where you build up your opinions of the basis of 'facts' which have already been demonstrated as false in even just the dozen or so threads about Dust on this very forum. I've no need to attempt to convince someone who has already made up their mind, and in fact clearly made up their mind before they saw any evidence and so decided which evidence to pay attention to and which to not.

    Now, I don't know if Dust will fail or succeed. But if it fails it won't be for any of the reasons you've identified.

    So yeah. If you genuinely believe what you wrote then my opinion of you is that you are an idiot. And if you don't believe it them you are trolling. I can't be sure which, hence the negrep comment.

    Go cry some more about not being taken seriously~ Al Simmons.
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  6. #26
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    I am partly trolling, but only partly - CCP have clearly stated that they're not aiming Dust at Eve players - it's aimed at PS3 players and console FPS players. Whilst that doesn't exclude Eve players, and CCP are obviously acknowledging that a lot of Eve players will play, they're not the intended audience <insert venn diagram here>.

    Therefore, as soon as you're an "Eve player who doesn't own a PS3 and doesn't play console FPS games", your opinion on Dust becomes incidental - you're not the target market. The comparison would be with a car manufacturer designing a car for wealthy people who live in the city, and then making changes based on what farmers said about it. Farmers may be wealthy in some cases, and some may even sometimes live in the city, but they're not the core market.

    QED, your moaning about "it's not on PC CCP sux and are wrong" is irrelevant. That of course doesn't mean Dust won't fail miserably for exactly the reason that they're aiming at the WRONG core market, but it does mean that as it stands your whines are largely inconsequential.

    Till it all goes tits up and they come running back into your PC-gaming-rig-having, Eve-playing, console-hating arms crying about how they were wrong to ignore you and please forgive them and help their game not die horribly
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  7. #27
    Marlona Sky's Avatar
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    Something tells me that no matter how well or how poor DUST 514 does; no one in this thread will change their opinion on the matter.

  8. #28
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlona Sky View Post
    Something tells me that no matter how well or how poor DUST 514 does; no one in this thread will change their opinion on the matter.
    ORLY?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Simmons View Post
    Console FPS games don't have very long lifespans outside of the few blockbuster games that all the Xbros buy like COD, Halo etc. Whereas people play PC multiplayer games for years.
    Pretty much this. Outside of the few blockbusters the other FPS titles have been pretty lukewarm. Then there's the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about. Casual gamers. Dust is a persistent thing with actual losses and gains. Successful FPS's on the other hand start with equal standing and the tangible gains that are available like unlocks or red, orange, and blue tiger stripped and gold plated AK's can not be removed from a loss. The casualness has been lowered a notch and a broke merc corp is going to get outmatched really quickly by those with their heads switched on. This removes the large base that blockbuster FPS's really on for revenue.

    So what is there to compare? Look at MAG for the PS3. http://ps3.ign.com/articles/106/1065655p1.html
    Similar in that wins grant a PMC faction, passive bonuses if they've won several matches. Guess what the biggest complaint in the game is about? Yup, unfair advantage due to small passive bonuses. It gives one team a leg up over the rest. Guess what's going to happen in Dust. Yup, successful teams are going to have a starting advantage with T2 gear and vehicles. Can you see where the complaints will start? Then there is the anti-BF3 syndrome. The successful FPS's have small maps. Like literally a few backyards in size (see MW3). Console kids complain about having to do any real travel in BF3. It puts them off that they have to :effort. And the whining just gets worse if they had to travel any real distance only to get fragged right as they arrive. Again, just more strikes about it going to console in this kind of form. But whatever. /rant off

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JForce View Post
    Therefore, as soon as you're an "Eve player who doesn't own a PS3 and doesn't play console FPS games", your opinion on Dust becomes incidental - you're not the target market. The comparison would be with a car manufacturer designing a car for wealthy people who live in the city, and then making changes based on what farmers said about it. Farmers may be wealthy in some cases, and some may even sometimes live in the city, but they're not the core market.
    Nice analogy The venn diagram comment is apropos.

    Consoles don't seem like the right market for a slow burner sales model (i.e. like Eve), either CCP get the casuals buying it in droves straight out of the gate or it's just going to be eclipsed by Halo 4, GoW 4 or whatever else that is guaranteed by virtue of traction to steal players away from DUST no matter what. Though being only on PS3 would help there I guess?

    The thing I think I'm most interested in wrt DUST (I hate console FPS as a rule, the default joypad control method and built-in auto-aim assistance just screams "wrong platform") is how tight the integration is with Eve, and how wide the impact is. What happens if (when?) DUST dies a death on the PS3? Are we left with game mechanics in place which can only be accomplished by playing DUST, or will CCP admit defeat and remove whatever DUST-based requirement there is in the Eve universe? The flip side of course is that if DUST didn't affect Eve in a noteworthy way, would it stand on its own two feet as "just a FPS from an unknown studio"?

    It certainly seems prescient that Eve will exist beyond DUST, so it's something CCP will have to factor in at some point I think.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keorythe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Simmons View Post
    Console FPS games don't have very long lifespans outside of the few blockbuster games that all the Xbros buy like COD, Halo etc. Whereas people play PC multiplayer games for years.
    Pretty much this. Outside of the few blockbusters the other FPS titles have been pretty lukewarm. Then there's the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about. Casual gamers. Dust is a persistent thing with actual losses and gains. Successful FPS's on the other hand start with equal standing and the tangible gains that are available like unlocks or red, orange, and blue tiger stripped and gold plated AK's can not be removed from a loss. The casualness has been lowered a notch and a broke merc corp is going to get outmatched really quickly by those with their heads switched on. This removes the large base that blockbuster FPS's really on for revenue.

    So what is there to compare? Look at MAG for the PS3. http://ps3.ign.com/articles/106/1065655p1.html
    Similar in that wins grant a PMC faction, passive bonuses if they've won several matches. Guess what the biggest complaint in the game is about? Yup, unfair advantage due to small passive bonuses. It gives one team a leg up over the rest. Guess what's going to happen in Dust. Yup, successful teams are going to have a starting advantage with T2 gear and vehicles. Can you see where the complaints will start? Then there is the anti-BF3 syndrome. The successful FPS's have small maps. Like literally a few backyards in size (see MW3). Console kids complain about having to do any real travel in BF3. It puts them off that they have to :effort. And the whining just gets worse if they had to travel any real distance only to get fragged right as they arrive. Again, just more strikes about it going to console in this kind of form. But whatever. /rant off
    Thank you. It's the wrong game for a console, I mean expanding the Eve universe with a big budget FPS was already a gamble for CCP, and they're making it a bigger one by putting it on PS3 only.

    To the people who keep pushing the PR line that CCP are doing this for any reason other than whatever deal they made with Sony, you're deluded. "Oh yeah, we're targeting a different market of gamers than people already playing Eve". Uh, bullshit, and why are you doing that? If they were really targeting a different market, they would not have the game be related to Eve, and be a standalone game to branch out a bit and not just be an MMO company.
    This halfway approach does nobody any favours. If you put it on consoles, at least put it on both 360 and PS3. But I still haven't seen any rational reason for not releasing it on PC. All their fans playing Eve obviously have decent PCs, and I bet a large proportion of them would want to try it. Yet why would Joe Public consolegamer give a shit about Dust over BF3/MW3/Prototype 2 or whatever else he's playing?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Simmons View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keorythe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Simmons View Post
    Console FPS games don't have very long lifespans outside of the few blockbuster games that all the Xbros buy like COD, Halo etc. Whereas people play PC multiplayer games for years.
    Facts n stuff
    Thank you. It's the wrong game for a console, I mean expanding the Eve universe with a big budget FPS was already a gamble for CCP, and they're making it a bigger one by putting it on PS3 only.

    To the people who keep pushing the PR line that CCP are doing this for any reason other than whatever deal they made with Sony, you're deluded. "Oh yeah, we're targeting a different market of gamers than people already playing Eve". Uh, bullshit, and why are you doing that? If they were really targeting a different market, they would not have the game be related to Eve, and be a standalone game to branch out a bit and not just be an MMO company.
    This halfway approach does nobody any favours. If you put it on consoles, at least put it on both 360 and PS3. But I still haven't seen any rational reason for not releasing it on PC. All their fans playing Eve obviously have decent PCs, and I bet a large proportion of them would want to try it. Yet why would Joe Public consolegamer give a shit about Dust over BF3/MW3/Prototype 2 or whatever else he's playing?
    In general I agree with you two, especially this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Simmons View Post
    Also, even among consoles the PS3 is not the console of choice for shooter fans. It didn't get the Halo or Gears of War games, it got some of the multiplatform games but most people bought them for 360 since they had one for Halo and all the other stuff, and preferred the online implementation in Xbox Live. PS3 has crappy alternatives like Killzone. Whatever exclusivity deal CCP made with Sony, I don't think it will be worth it in the long run.
    It's possible CCP thinks Dust will be :awesome: enough to become the PS3 flagship shooter title but that'd be pretty fucking arrogant/absurd. Of all the friends I have that play console shooters (which is a lot of people btw), hardly any even own a PS3. I've heard good things about PS Online, especially that it's free, but XBox Live is still vastly more popular. I really can't explain it, but that seems to be the reality of console shooters.

    However where I disagree is this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Simmons View Post
    "Oh yeah, we're targeting a different market of gamers than people already playing Eve". Uh, bullshit, and why are you doing that? If they were really targeting a different market, they would not have the game be related to Eve, and be a standalone game to branch out a bit and not just be an MMO company.
    My impression of what CCP thinks about their game (EVE) is that there are lots of different professions available that are fundamentally different from each other. The way they see it, many people have different reasons for playing EVE, and you only have to enjoy one trade/profession/aspect of the game it make it worth playing. HOWEVER, almost every single person who plays EVE puts value into "the sandbox". What unites EVE players is our participation in the universe CCP created, as opposed to Halo/CoD/Gears players who are united mostly by shooting stuff. What I think CCP is doing with EVE is saying "Ok, some people want to participate in the EVE universe, but they like running around and shooting things better than being in a spaceship or docked in a station somewhere. We're going to let them affect the EVE universe in a way that is meaningful but also fun according to their preferred playstyle".

    Frankly, I think that's great.

    (that obviously doesn't explain why they aren't putting it on PC too, but I don't have an answer for that)

  13. #33
    pr0lurker's Avatar
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  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by ValorousBob View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Simmons View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keorythe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Simmons View Post
    Console FPS games don't have very long lifespans outside of the few blockbuster games that all the Xbros buy like COD, Halo etc. Whereas people play PC multiplayer games for years.
    Facts n stuff
    Thank you. It's the wrong game for a console, I mean expanding the Eve universe with a big budget FPS was already a gamble for CCP, and they're making it a bigger one by putting it on PS3 only.

    To the people who keep pushing the PR line that CCP are doing this for any reason other than whatever deal they made with Sony, you're deluded. "Oh yeah, we're targeting a different market of gamers than people already playing Eve". Uh, bullshit, and why are you doing that? If they were really targeting a different market, they would not have the game be related to Eve, and be a standalone game to branch out a bit and not just be an MMO company.
    This halfway approach does nobody any favours. If you put it on consoles, at least put it on both 360 and PS3. But I still haven't seen any rational reason for not releasing it on PC. All their fans playing Eve obviously have decent PCs, and I bet a large proportion of them would want to try it. Yet why would Joe Public consolegamer give a shit about Dust over BF3/MW3/Prototype 2 or whatever else he's playing?
    In general I agree with you two, especially this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Simmons View Post
    Also, even among consoles the PS3 is not the console of choice for shooter fans. It didn't get the Halo or Gears of War games, it got some of the multiplatform games but most people bought them for 360 since they had one for Halo and all the other stuff, and preferred the online implementation in Xbox Live. PS3 has crappy alternatives like Killzone. Whatever exclusivity deal CCP made with Sony, I don't think it will be worth it in the long run.
    It's possible CCP thinks Dust will be :awesome: enough to become the PS3 flagship shooter title but that'd be pretty fucking arrogant/absurd. Of all the friends I have that play console shooters (which is a lot of people btw), hardly any even own a PS3. I've heard good things about PS Online, especially that it's free, but XBox Live is still vastly more popular. I really can't explain it, but that seems to be the reality of console shooters.

    However where I disagree is this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Simmons View Post
    "Oh yeah, we're targeting a different market of gamers than people already playing Eve". Uh, bullshit, and why are you doing that? If they were really targeting a different market, they would not have the game be related to Eve, and be a standalone game to branch out a bit and not just be an MMO company.
    My impression of what CCP thinks about their game (EVE) is that there are lots of different professions available that are fundamentally different from each other. The way they see it, many people have different reasons for playing EVE, and you only have to enjoy one trade/profession/aspect of the game it make it worth playing. HOWEVER, almost every single person who plays EVE puts value into "the sandbox". What unites EVE players is our participation in the universe CCP created, as opposed to Halo/CoD/Gears players who are united mostly by shooting stuff. What I think CCP is doing with EVE is saying "Ok, some people want to participate in the EVE universe, but they like running around and shooting things better than being in a spaceship or docked in a station somewhere. We're going to let them affect the EVE universe in a way that is meaningful but also fun according to their preferred playstyle".

    Frankly, I think that's great.

    (that obviously doesn't explain why they aren't putting it on PC too, but I don't have an answer for that)
    That is where I have an issue, if you're trying to do that you are still trying to aim your game at people that do/have played Eve all these people own PC's but not all of them own a PS3.

    The idea of salvaging/looting they are trying to keep in with Eve mechanics something most PS3 FPSer (especially those that haven't played EvE) won't give two shits about, I'm sure it doesn't apply to all people but most will play a FPS because it is something they can login have a quick game shoot shit and logout and not care about the bigger picture.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Simmons View Post
    To the people who keep pushing the PR line that CCP are doing this for any reason other than whatever deal they made with Sony, you're deluded. "Oh yeah, we're targeting a different market of gamers than people already playing Eve". Uh, bullshit, and why are you doing that? If they were really targeting a different market, they would not have the game be related to Eve, and be a standalone game to branch out a bit and not just be an MMO company.
    Hasn't it been well established already that the reason it's not appearing on 360 is because of Microsoft's restrictions when it comes to free patches, etc. Valve talked about it when they were developing cross-platform Portal 2, and CCP said the same thing.

    I vaguely recall reading about MS imposing restrictions on how cross-platform or third-party (i.e. outside of Live) systems could be integrated as well.

    Not anti-360 at all but it seems pretty obvious that a game like DUST514 would need to be patched/iterated upon fairly regularly AND would need to talk to CCP's servers.
    Last edited by Durzel; May 9 2012 at 01:01:08 PM.

  16. #36
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    Yes but Al can't accept that as a reason.
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  17. #37

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    MMOFPS is a natural for PC.

    The persistant gameplay really favours hardcore poopsocking.

    Do console FPS guys play like that?

  18. #38
    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    Two words.
    Tea bagging.

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  19. #39
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    Firstly my whine, How can CCP do this to me they are locking me out of MY game I pay them there fore give me every thing... crappy console fps ftl as well.

    However I can see much logic behind this, new audience (completely new that is), ground breaking, headline making console game with the chance of becoming the new HALO if it works and they get sony behind them pushing to give their console a foot in to the fps console market. Now for the rest of us and the future, well CCP seem to be planning this to be around for the reminder of eve's life we will see ports in the future I am certain of that both to Pc and the PS3's replacement. Right now they are essentially limiting the number of folks who pick this up and giving them some breathing room away from eve bitter vets and EMO, starting small will simplify every thing and reduce the risks / overheads.

    All in I will be patient and wait for Dust514 for PC with added exploration, FiS (Fighting in Stations) and drop podding down the ground to shoot console idiots in a few years.

  20. #40

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    I used to have a Mac way back in the dawn of time and my friends had PC's. A new game would come out, they'd get it, be part of the whole strategy discovery thing then move on before it got ported. Then I'd eventually get the game or just skip it and get the latest thing by Blizzard which was normally a reasonably simultaneous release that we could all play together.

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