I suck at job interviews/I hate my job and everyone sucks[MEGATHREAD?]

[Joe Appleby]

In an ironic turn of events, I - who label myself as an antitheist aka "hardcode atheist" - yesterday had a job interview with a company whose products and customers exclusivley are the German protestant and catholic church.

That (first) interview was quite long (almost 2 hours) and I seem to fit their dire needs (aka "outdated, not well-documented codebase + the maintainers rapidly approach retirement age though that software is supposed to be suppoted 'til the end of this decade") pretty well. So purely from a job perspective, that makes g(o)od sense. Let's see if they're willing to almost literally make a pact with the devil.

Just describe yourself as religious but not into organised religion. No one ever seems to argue with that.

While describing the part of their product I would work on, which is the financial overview of which people in a priest's parish are members of their respective church and hence church taxpayers, the interviewer asked in a side sentence "are you a registred chruch member?", to which I simply replied "no" and left it at that. It didn't seem to bother them insofar as that was asked round the 1st quarter of that interview and by the end of it, we agreed on a follow-up session with the actual developers.

But if I'm not mistaken, German law doesn't allow them to actually ask that question "for real" in job interviews any longer, with the exception of the employer actually being the church, e.g. a kindergarden run by the church. I might be wrong though, IANAL...

If the company is 100% owned by the church, they MAY have a leg to stand on. But even then chances are that they don't care. My ex worked for the Catholic Church in Bavaria, in a very religious area even. They didn't care about us not being married and shit. "Rome would like us to care."

NINJAEDIT: The church has awesome benefits on par with Beamtenstatus if you work for them long enough. Just saying.

[Lallante]

Doesnt sound like they care much then. Even that question is more 'does this context make sense to you' than an actual test.

[Rodj Blake]

It's not a dick move. You don't owe your employer loyalty and should always look out for your own career interests first and foremost as no-one else will. Much less someone who isnt even your employer yet

Imagine the reverse scenario - an employer isnt going to throw away a massive advantage or profit just to be less impolite/inconvenient to you, some employee.

The reverse scenario is being offered a job, quitting your current one, and then being told by your new employer that they didn't want you after all.

I don't know about you, but I'd be very angry indeed if that happened to me.

[Keckers]

The reverse scenario is different because the balance of power isn't reversed.

[El Capitano]

The reverse scenario is being offered a job, quitting your current one, and then being told by your new employer that they didn't want you after all.

I don't know about you, but I'd be very angry indeed if that happened to me.

That's why you don't quit until you have a contract. Even then, it's not unheard of for companies to let go of somebody very early in their probation for a number of reasons.

[Lallante]

It's not a dick move. You don't owe your employer loyalty and should always look out for your own career interests first and foremost as no-one else will. Much less someone who isnt even your employer yet

Imagine the reverse scenario - an employer isnt going to throw away a massive advantage or profit just to be less impolite/inconvenient to you, some employee.

The reverse scenario is being offered a job, quitting your current one, and then being told by your new employer that they didn't want you after all.

I don't know about you, but I'd be very angry indeed if that happened to me.

And yet it happens all the time. You shouldnt resign a job without a new signed contract that will ensure you get at least some months paid notice, anyway

What keckers says is also true. The impact of that on a person is vastly greater than the impact on the company of the person doing it to them

[Shaftoes]

Got my promotion panel next month, with another one guaranteed next year.

Movin' up in the ranks bois.

I'll be knocking on the door of the Senior Civil Service after 6 years in, and only be in my mid thirties.

My personal life is essentially smoking wreckage at this point though. At some point I'll need to stop and smell the roses.

[Equium Duo]

Thats cool dude! Congrats!

[Lallante]

Got my promotion panel next month, with another one guaranteed next year.

Movin' up in the ranks bois.

I'll be knocking on the door of the Senior Civil Service after 6 years in, and only be in my mid thirties.

My personal life is essentially smoking wreckage at this point though. At some point I'll need to stop and smell the roses.

Nice!

You have to switch teams every promotion (i.e. cant go up a grade in same job) and departments every few promotions right? How come you are guaranteed two steps up in two years? Good boss batting for you?

[Shaftoes]

Got my promotion panel next month, with another one guaranteed next year.

Movin' up in the ranks bois.

I'll be knocking on the door of the Senior Civil Service after 6 years in, and only be in my mid thirties.

My personal life is essentially smoking wreckage at this point though. At some point I'll need to stop and smell the roses.

Nice!

You have to switch teams every promotion (i.e. cant go up a grade in same job) and departments every few promotions right? How come you are guaranteed two steps up in two years? Good boss batting for you?

I'm on the Fast Stream which moves you jobs/departments every year until you hit G7. My panel next month is my SEO grade one (should be a formality) and I do my G7 panel in Spring next year. This year in particular has been really successful for me in the Scotland Office, as my Director has given me some really tough jobs that I have delivered on.

Once you are a G7, the only real way up is to transition into a Deputy Director role which drops off the regular Civil Service pay scale. That'll take years though!

[Lallante]

Nicely done!

[Hel OWeen]

In an ironic turn of events, I - who label myself as an antitheist aka "hardcode atheist" - yesterday had a job interview with a company whose products and customers exclusivley are the German protestant and catholic church.

That (first) interview was quite long (almost 2 hours) and I seem to fit their dire needs (aka "outdated, not well-documented codebase + the maintainers rapidly approach retirement age though that software is supposed to be suppoted 'til the end of this decade") pretty well. So purely from a job perspective, that makes g(o)od sense. Let's see if they're willing to almost literally make a pact with the devil.

Just describe yourself as religious but not into organised religion. No one ever seems to argue with that.

While describing the part of their product I would work on, which is the financial overview of which people in a priest's parish are members of their respective church and hence church taxpayers, the interviewer asked in a side sentence "are you a registred chruch member?", to which I simply replied "no" and left it at that. It didn't seem to bother them insofar as that was asked round the 1st quarter of that interview and by the end of it, we agreed on a follow-up session with the actual developers.

But if I'm not mistaken, German law doesn't allow them to actually ask that question "for real" in job interviews any longer, with the exception of the employer actually being the church, e.g. a kindergarden run by the church. I might be wrong though, IANAL...

If the company is 100% owned by the church, they MAY have a leg to stand on.

I tried to figure that one out, but couldn't find out the actual owner.

But even then chances are that they don't care. My ex worked for the Catholic Church in Bavaria, in a very religious area even. They didn't care about us not being married and shit. "Rome would like us to care."

My cousin tried to started her career as a kindergarten teacher in roman-catholic one back in the day in Baden-Würrtenberg. Although raised catholic, she had quit the church by that time. And she was denied the job. But yeah, as of now, they either don't seem to care or they are in such desperate need that they're willing to ignore it.

NINJAEDIT: The church has awesome benefits on par with Beamtenstatus if you work for them long enough. Just saying.

Yeah, he mentioned that in the interview. They pay 6% of your wage into a pension fond, that is they pay for it, i.e. not deducting it from the actual wage. And I could still continue my previous/current tax-incentivized pension fond.

Meanwhile I got the 2nd interview scheduled for next week. This time with one actual developer showing me the project that I would work on. Considering my unemployment now already lasts for half a year and that my stated desired wage didn't shy them away - although that would be a pay raise over my previous job even when negotiated down a bit, I'd be willing to take the job. Even if only to "reset" my unemployment status in order to be eligible to the full unemployment payment next time again. Which requires 2 years of employment, IIRC.

[Keckers]

Good luck Hel, hope it goes well!

I got an offer for Uni, just need to finish off a couple of open learn courses I'm doing and I'll be starting in September. Also time to start scouring second hand book shops for text books.

[Lallante]

Good luck Hel, hope it goes well!

I got an offer for Uni, just need to finish off a couple of open learn courses I'm doing and I'll be starting in September. Also time to start scouring second hand book shops for text books.

This is awesome. Hope you are excited. You staying in London?

[Keckers]

More anxious at the moment since I need to figure out the financials but I'm sure I can make it work. I just need clarification from student finance that I can take out a second student loan because it's a degree for an NHS allied health professional course.

I'll be at Essex uni so will move to Colchester, my girlfriend will able to commute into London but hopefully she'll only be in the office a couple of days a week otherwise that might make things a bit more difficult.

[Equium Duo]

More anxious at the moment since I need to figure out the financials but I'm sure I can make it work. I just need clarification from student finance that I can take out a second student loan because it's a degree for an NHS allied health professional course.

I'll be at Essex uni so will move to Colchester, my girlfriend will able to commute into London but hopefully she'll only be in the office a couple of days a week otherwise that might make things a bit more difficult.

What are you trying to do? until this post I was going to ask why not continue with the open uni learning. its so much cheaper. Also the remote learning is much much better than what I've seen with "real Uni"

[Keckers]

Physiotherapy, not entirely sure how much of that can be done remotely via open uni. I want to be part of the structure of a university as well again since I had a pretty awful time of it before. Being inside a sports science department and connected with NHS treatment settings is where the value lies, I can learn about anatomy and treatment modalities for free online (as I have been doing anyway).

[Lallante]

Yeah that kinda needs a big chunk to be in person!

[Equium Duo]

Makes sense to me

[Shiodome]

Congrats Keckerino. Definitely need a practical study environment, you're not gonna learn therapeutic people skills from a website, nor recognise different 'pains' without poking someone and watching them go 'ow!' :P

Probably would hold off on the text books unless specifically instructed to buy them, you would have access to everything through uni library online resources anyway.