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Thread: CSM 7 General Gabbery

  1. #41

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    Wow, okay so people here obviously didn't read the thread as the whole 'WHY AINT TWO STEP CHAIRMAN' got repeated three times. (and answered 3x)

    I really appreciate the effort to get out there and do things like answer Q's in this thread, other forum threads and be interviewed for podcasts, etc. It's my opinion that the CSM would be best served by pointing everyone to a single webpage or forum post somewhere that had links to all the various communications that you have put out. The only reason I know this thread exists is because I saw a thread on reddit, which lead to your blog, seleene, which lead here. So maybe you guys are already using Seleene's blog for this?

    As you said earlier Seleene, it is hard not to tinfoil over the whole situation of chairmanship. Not just because you are in PL, but because you used to work for CCP. Think about it. Although you claim unbiased interaction, it smells fishy when CCP is forced to get rid of mittens because they don't want to anger partners such as Sony or Nvidia with mittens' raw politically incorrect terribleness and who should take his spot? An ex-employee of CCP. If that doesn't smell like massive PR spin, I don't know what does. Yeah yeah, the CSM all voted Seleene in without coercion is the party line.

    I just want to point out that while I may be able to reasonably conclude that this is all tinfoil hat based horseshit, many more have probably concluded that CSM7 is nothing more than a marketing sockpuppet for CCP's ::awesome vision:: So do you as a CSM recognize this as a issue of player perception? Care to talk about how CSM/CCP feels about it? I get the feeling that CCP itself is largely ignoring the issue and trying to sweep it under the rug as they went completely silent about it during and after mittens' ban.
    Last edited by Kleus; April 11 2012 at 01:45:11 PM.

  2. #42
    Donor Mike deVoid's Avatar
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    Mittens deserved some sort of action, and the temp ban he got led to a CSM ban. As for the people who think that the CSM achieves nothing or is a mouthpiece? Well they clearly have no idea of the influence that actually meeting people has, and will ignore any piece of evidence that contradicts their assumption.

  3. #43
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    with inferno will come the last v3 subcaps, did you saw some prototype of paintjobs ? or does they want to v3 capitals first ? did you even talked about that recently btw ? ^^

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seleene View Post
    I'm not going to speak for why people voted the way they did; folks can do that if and when they wish. Hans and Alek have done so in the comments of one of Jester's blogs. Trebor has also said a few words on it. As for why me and Two Step? Well, there was more than just us but after a bit of discussion it just came down to me and him and a vote was taken. I'm assuming you know a bit about myself and Two Step but if not we can elaborate a bit more.
    I do indeed, and I know why you and other CSMs voted for you. But that's only half the question. The other half, the half I've not seen anyone address, is, why not support two step for chair? What changed between you arguing in support of two step for chair and the CSM vote on the matter? Obviously there was some discussion among the CSM, what points were raised that changed your mind?

    EDIT: This question could also be directed at Trebor, but Idunno if he's watching the thread.
    Last edited by Steph; April 11 2012 at 07:56:21 PM.
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  5. #45
    Donor Mike deVoid's Avatar
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    That question is a personal question. I'd still like to see all the answers.

  6. #46
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    Wow, let the tinfoil hattery begin. We are already beginning to see a "PL metagamed the CSM away from the Goons (and AHARM)" whine starting up in here, and you guys thought my posts were absurd.

  7. #47
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    That's not at all where I was going with my question, actually. The sudden about-face just caught me by surprise and I'd like to hear what prompted it.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    That's not at all where I was going with my question, actually.
    It's okay, just ignore me. It was another post (or two) that triggered my troll reflex.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kleus View Post
    I really appreciate the effort to get out there and do things like answer Q's in this thread, other forum threads and be interviewed for podcasts, etc. It's my opinion that the CSM would be best served by pointing everyone to a single webpage or forum post somewhere that had links to all the various communications that you have put out. The only reason I know this thread exists is because I saw a thread on reddit, which lead to your blog, seleene, which lead here. So maybe you guys are already using Seleene's blog for this?
    My blog is my blog; it's not really 'supposed to be' the official source of stuff but I'm still going to try to keep it updated as ~things~ happen. As for a more official one stop shop for info, I agree with what you're saying and we're discussing that as well right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kleus View Post
    As you said earlier Seleene, it is hard not to tinfoil over the whole situation of chairmanship. Not just because you are in PL, but because you used to work for CCP. Think about it. Although you claim unbiased interaction, it smells fishy when CCP is forced to get rid of mittens because they don't want to anger partners such as Sony or Nvidia with mittens' raw politically incorrect terribleness and who should take his spot? An ex-employee of CCP. If that doesn't smell like massive PR spin, I don't know what does. Yeah yeah, the CSM all voted Seleene in without coercion is the party line.
    Dude, I dunno what to say? I was a player for several years and am again now. I love this game and there's really nothing else out there I could replace it with (SWTOR?! LOL!!). The mess with Mittens is done and if folks wanna tinfoil on about it, fine, but it doesn't change anything. Beyond that, me being on the CSM or in the Chair doesn't really give CCP any advantage, not that they are looking for one anyway. What I CAN do is, due to having been in the middle of these development cycles several times, is break down how best to use the very real leverage the CSM has as player liaisons to push a common agenda or specific issues. I'm not much on subtlety, am damn near 40 years old and pretty happy with my RL these days. Sooo, yeah, the idea that CCP (or PL or whoever) has any actual influence over me is kinda silly IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kleus View Post
    I just want to point out that while I may be able to reasonably conclude that this is all tinfoil hat based horseshit, many more have probably concluded that CSM7 is nothing more than a marketing sockpuppet for CCP's ::awesome vision:: So do you as a CSM recognize this as a issue of player perception? Care to talk about how CSM/CCP feels about it? I get the feeling that CCP itself is largely ignoring the issue and trying to sweep it under the rug as they went completely silent about it during and after mittens' ban.
    Experience is the best counter to what most people say. The CSM does play a part in how the story of EVE plays out. Myself and the other delegates have nothing personally to gain in game or out of game by putting our RL time into all this. v0v

    I think that some people will never be convinced that the CSM is anything other than a marketing ploy. What I'd recommend to them is that they rally some of their fellow haters and get one of the 14 CSM seats and see for themselves. Of course, if they change their tune their supported would probably tinfoil that CCP game them 50 free PLEX's or something too.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by raiden55 View Post
    with inferno will come the last v3 subcaps, did you saw some prototype of paintjobs ? or does they want to v3 capitals first ? did you even talked about that recently btw ? ^^
    The plan that we're aware of has them completing the v3 on everything before they start to enter the realm of paintjobs and logos, etc... I'm sure they are working on that stuff in parallel though but bear in mind that anything they ever eventually do will fall under the guidelines of making sure it stays "EVE-like". No, you won't ever see pink ships in EVE.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    ...But that's only half the question. The other half, the half I've not seen anyone address, is, why not support two step for chair? What changed between you arguing in support of two step for chair and the CSM vote on the matter? Obviously there was some discussion among the CSM, what points were raised that changed your mind?
    Seleene, I'm sorry to be the gadfly buzzing around your head chirping the same inane question into your ear, but I would really appreciate a direct answer. Trebor, if you're watching feel free to chime in as well.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    Seleene, I'm sorry to be the gadfly buzzing around your head chirping the same inane question into your ear, but I would really appreciate a direct answer. Trebor, if you're watching feel free to chime in as well.
    Hmmm... I guess the easiest way is to just answer each question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    Why not support two step for chair?
    Well, when you run for an elected seat against other people, you tend... not to support them? I wanted the job and went for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    What changed between you arguing in support of two step for chair and the CSM vote on the matter?
    We were told there had to be an election. Simple as. Once that reality kicked in, several members took a step back and considered their options, myself included.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    Obviously there was some discussion among the CSM, what points were raised that changed your mind?
    I'm not really sure this is a question for me to answer as I was one of the guys being voted on.

  13. #53
    Donor Mike deVoid's Avatar
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    Great, we have the controversy out of the way. Onwards with the actual content.

    I got the impression from Fanfest that the new marketing actually *gets* eve and no longer will you have a marketing dept wanting to highlight/develop eve in a wow-like manner to get the subscriptions rolling in - but that eve in a hardcore game for hardcore gamers. Eve is hard and we all like it that way. This obviously doesn't preclude removing False Difficulty but it means that we keep Eve tough and it get better, not 'easier'. What is your personal take on this guy and also on the marketing steer he is applying?

    What about the Jon Lander? I know you've already written about him in your blog Seleene a few months ago. But this guy just comes across to me a immensely competent but also approachable. I get the impression he wants the expansion to have those large gameplay elements which showcase SPACESHIP development, but he'll also invest in the longterm future of eve too - revisiting the codebase and improving it, 1 year on DX11 to have uber-details spaceships, etc. Is this impression accurate?

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike deVoid View Post
    Great, we have the controversy out of the way. Onwards with the actual content.

    I got the impression from Fanfest that the new marketing actually *gets* eve and no longer will you have a marketing dept wanting to highlight/develop eve in a wow-like manner to get the subscriptions rolling in - but that eve in a hardcore game for hardcore gamers. Eve is hard and we all like it that way. This obviously doesn't preclude removing False Difficulty but it means that we keep Eve tough and it get better, not 'easier'. What is your personal take on this guy and also on the marketing steer he is applying?

    What about the Jon Lander? I know you've already written about him in your blog Seleene a few months ago. But this guy just comes across to me a immensely competent but also approachable. I get the impression he wants the expansion to have those large gameplay elements which showcase SPACESHIP development, but he'll also invest in the longterm future of eve too - revisiting the codebase and improving it, 1 year on DX11 to have uber-details spaceships, etc. Is this impression accurate?
    For the marketing thing, it is hard to tell. We don't talk directly to David Reid, and we haven't seen any huge new campaign or something, so I think it might be too early to tell.

    For Jon Lander, he is a really good dude. A lot of the devs are actually working on internal tools and long term projects right now, from the launcher to stuff like the Crimewatch rewrite. A lot of that stuff is stuff that should have been done long ago, and CCP is finally getting to it, which is a really good thing.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike deVoid View Post
    Great, we have the controversy out of the way. Onwards with the actual content.

    I got the impression from Fanfest that the new marketing actually *gets* eve and no longer will you have a marketing dept wanting to highlight/develop eve in a wow-like manner to get the subscriptions rolling in - but that eve in a hardcore game for hardcore gamers. Eve is hard and we all like it that way. This obviously doesn't preclude removing False Difficulty but it means that we keep Eve tough and it get better, not 'easier'. What is your personal take on this guy and also on the marketing steer he is applying?
    I have no idea if he knows the difference between a Brutix and a Hurricane, but he makes me want to play EVE. Before FanFest, all I had seen of the guy were a few videos about DUST where he seemed to be just yammering on and saying buzz word type stuff. When I saw him onstage at FanFest though... what can I say? The guy had an infectious energy about him that really surprised me. I like the style he seems to be throwing onto EVE's marketing but it's still too early to see how that is going to translate into what it means for the game's overall image. I'm dissapointed that I didn't get a change to meet up with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike deVoid View Post
    What about the Jon Lander? I know you've already written about him in your blog Seleene a few months ago. But this guy just comes across to me a immensely competent but also approachable. I get the impression he wants the expansion to have those large gameplay elements which showcase SPACESHIP development, but he'll also invest in the longterm future of eve too - revisiting the codebase and improving it, 1 year on DX11 to have uber-details spaceships, etc. Is this impression accurate?
    Jon Lander is a fucking boss, and not just in the internet meme sense of the words. I had very vague memories of him from right before I left the company a couple years (wow, that long??) ago but his appointment as Sr. Producer was a surprise for a few reasons. First of all, he's not Icelandic. Even he acknowledges the import and significance of that fact. He comes from a previous professional background; he didn't just grow up in CCP and get promoted because he was a cool bro. He actually plays the game. He's active ~somewhere~ in null sec and he also understands industry and the economic underpinnings of EVE. What he is unsure about, he asks after with a focus that lets you know your words won't be wasted. If you can catch him, he's very easy to talk to and doesn't mind answering questions. At the December CSM summit and again at FanFest, I got a chance to talk to him extensively and I'm really happy that this guy is leading the charge in EVE now.

  16. #56

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    How much input and overview does the CSM have in the upcoming Tiercide? If it's really done as ambitiously as presented during the fanfest it's going to be one of the most crucial Inferno features that MUST be done in full communication with the community, while still cutting through all the threadnoughts on the forums about it.

    A perfect task for the CSM, but then isn't the whole NDA-nonsense going to handicap the CSM's ability to communicate back to the players?

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    The other half, the half I've not seen anyone address, is, why not support two step for chair? What changed between you arguing in support of two step for chair and the CSM vote on the matter?
    It was a simple matter of who I thought would be best for Chair and for Secretary. I felt that Seleene and Two step needed to take those two leadership roles, and that Seleene as Chair and Two step as Secretary was the best fit for their particular talents.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by two step View Post
    3) I don't like the message that having someone with a PL alliance tag sends about the CSM. I think if anyone actually looks into what Seleene says, it is quite clear that he isn't just pushing PL agenda items on the CSM, but I felt that the CSM as a whole would be better off with a more neutral chairman, especially on issues like titans and tech.
    This is a terrible 0/10 troll and you should feel bad

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluemajere View Post
    This is a terrible 0/10 troll and you should feel bad
    cause obviously noone ever said the goon had the CSM while mittens was chair ?
    he's not saying it's the truth, only that people will think like that. those who don't know seleene will think he's a PL agent, that's all.

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluemajere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by two step View Post
    3) I don't like the message that having someone with a PL alliance tag sends about the CSM. I think if anyone actually looks into what Seleene says, it is quite clear that he isn't just pushing PL agenda items on the CSM, but I felt that the CSM as a whole would be better off with a more neutral chairman, especially on issues like titans and tech.
    This is a terrible 0/10 troll and you should feel bad
    I am not sure Two Step knows how to troll honestly. But hey, your entitled to that stubby 1 sentence opinion of yours. I doubt most will share it unless they are blue to PL or in it though.

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