Snipah. Are you playing EVE again Frug?
Snipah. Are you playing EVE again Frug?
Damn Frug, your brave on the internet.
I think your looking in the mirror mate.Originally Posted by Frug
Look how stupid you are.It's basically, the "it's your fault for getting raped argument" which I suppose in some nations justifies women getting lashed or stoned to death(?).That may or may not be a valid argument, but its hardly the most important point coming out of these events.Not in the least. Eve is not the place for people who are a danger to themselves or others. The focus needs to be on them if they make claims like the miner in this case. You can't expect the community of random people, children, drunken fools, and other gamers to properly handle someone who has a psychological condition and if your goal is actually to remedy these situations you should stop splurging about Mittens and instead look at what to do about people like the miner.
(not lall)
Seriously no better than republicans blaming Sandra Fluke for Limburgh going full retard...
"omg, we must think the wis is a douche or else more dick alliance leaders will fall to the same dastardly tactic."
Actually, we had a thread like this before on SHC. Around the time of the Great Southern War there was a lot of nasty stuff going on outside of the game. Similar stuff in fact. Didn't the Goons not also send shit to Sir Molle's employees or something. The whole lady scarlett thing happened around that time as well. And more shit like that. To be fair, none of the sides were completely innocent from it.
And the discussion went pretty much the same as it does now. Plenty of the 'faggots' crowd were represented then, just as they are represented now. But plenty of others said the same thing then as they are saying now: 'Let's just stick to the game, shall we, all the out-of-game shenanigans are crap.'
Ofcourse nothing happened with that, and things have just become worse. The hacking of the Evolution (?) website and dumping all kinds of personal and private information all over the internets was then still something to shout about. Nowadays it is practically common practice, not even for Alliance warfare but for the bloody Alliance tournament even. And its not just the Goons either, I have the feeling everyone does it now to some extend. Only the Goons are the most open about it, brag about it the most, and are probably the most vicious in what they do.
It is a question whether this can even be reversed. I doubt it frankly. But the discussion is not new, and neither are the reactions to it. And in the end EVE has a justified reputation for this thing, and so has CCP for turning a blind eye to it, even placarding it as a unique feature of EVE.
Heh. No. Why? I can give you friends' character names if you want people to shoot at. Also idk what to think about the brave comment.
i dunno that's an exaggeration I think, or an outright misstatement. Look at it this way, if someone's talking suicide when they get ganked in eve what's the best course for CCP? Ban them and alert local authorities to the possible suicide, or try to change the entire culture of the eve community to protect a small minority of players? I'll bet you whatever you want to wager that banning for suicide threat would be cost effective, while policing several hundred thousand gamers 23/7 would be impossible, and the attempt would probably kill the goose laying the golden eggs anyway.I think your looking in the mirror mate.Look how stupid you are.It's basically, the "it's your fault for getting raped argument" which I suppose in some nations justifies women getting lashed or stoned to death(?).That may or may not be a valid argument, but its hardly the most important point coming out of these events.Not in the least. Eve is not the place for people who are a danger to themselves or others. The focus needs to be on them if they make claims like the miner in this case. You can't expect the community of random people, children, drunken fools, and other gamers to properly handle someone who has a psychological condition and if your goal is actually to remedy these situations you should stop splurging about Mittens and instead look at what to do about people like the miner.
(not lall)
Seriously no better than republicans blaming Sandra Fluke for Limburgh going full retard...
"omg, we must think the wis is a douche or else more dick alliance leaders will fall to the same dastardly tactic."
I'm not really sure on the morality there, but from a practical standpoint, if CCP wants to keep making money and keep eve going then it's in their best interest to simply put out that using their services to threaten suicide = ban, in much the same way they do for people threatening real life violence. Basically take the position that if you want to play eve, leave real life at the door and have fun, if you can't handle that you probably shouldn't be playing anyway.
(and no that's nothing like the 'asking for it' argument, stop being stupid)
A ban can be a week or a day. You can call it a timeout to avoid implying they're being punished. It's not just about the best course for CCP, it's about the best course for the suicidal person. If a person is actually on the verge of suicide and they DO get attacked/scammed/humiliated in Eve in perfectly legitimate ways, what do you think they'll end up doing? Anyone who thinks eve is a safe place for people like that is delusional.
What I don't like is people pretending that the poor miner is why they're championing this issue when if that was the case they would be pushing for a system to address such situations. I have no idea what drugs pattern is smoking but he's retarded like this on occasion.
The victim is a macro miner (allegedly*) with at least 20 accounts. He's asking to get ganked and trolled out of the game. CCP is forced to set him up with all new accounts. Somehow, I find it delightfully ironic that while they are banning accounts and confiscating ill-gotten ISK at an unprecedented level right now, they must also launder this player's assets to give him a new identity due to Mittani and the Goons targeting him, and the public outcry surrounding it.
*If he's not macroing then he must be a mighty specimen of industrial prowess, indeed!
Edit:
On the topic of unstable people and video games, wouldn't you rather have said mental cases playing Eve in the privacy of their own home rather than out in public interacting with real people? Eve is a game that allows people to vent their frustrations. Where else can you murder, extort, ransom, pillage, and suicide all in the name of space pixels and get away with it? I'd much rather have the crazies derping around in New Eden than around other people. That's where the shooting sprees happen. And yes, I'll give most people the benefit of the doubt and assume they know Eve isn't real and everything that happens there is virtual entertainment.
Last edited by Xiang Jiao; April 3 2012 at 08:18:07 PM.
No, the difference is, if someone threatens suicide, they can simply ignore the email. Notify CCP if you want, but his actions give you no right to do what Mittens did. Cold harsh universe or not, getting people to harrass anyone for any reason to the point of suicide REGARDLESS of there initial mental state or any other context is wrong and probably a felony. That's the fundamental problem many seem not to have grasped.
And yet if they're that unstable and invested in it a "ban" for a week could push them over the edge as easily as the ganking. People in that situtation need a trained counselor to listen to them, not one size fits all knee jerk reactions.
And this is completely orthogonal to what should be done about people who like making presentations on how much they've upset others, or who make wiki pages with RL pictures of people, or who mail people's workplaces with game fluff. Even if all that should be done is frowning on that kind of thing.
I knew goons were scum but I thought they kept it on the forums at least. Mailing workplaces and setting up webpages for people is just wrong. I think CCP must take action or this behaviour will continue to escalate until it causes problems for the company. But you know, maybe just frowning on it will stop that.
Last edited by TheManFromDelmonte; April 3 2012 at 08:11:23 PM.
My point exactly. You don't care about the miner in question or solving future issues, your primary concern is punishment. It's not going to work, nobody's going to get it any lighter in the future. They're going to get their ships blown up and mocked in game just as badly as before. The only difference is when a guy like Mittens is on a public stage, they'll be afraid to make stupid jokes - which is fine but something that makes me roll my eyes.
But if you want to sound like you have aspergers or something splurging about how I'm limbaugh and something about rape that's totally cool, you show me man. Good job. Durf blurf.
The kneejerk reaction is all yours - i don't know how many times I said it has to be handled properly. I also said that it didn't need to necessarily be the case, but that the option needs be on the table and that my main point was that you need to focus your attention on this side of things, not punishment for those who react to mails they get.
Honestly I don't know how many different permutations of the same statements I have to repeat for you to read everything I actually wrote. This is not orthogonal to who to punish for offenses - it's the same issue. A remark like mittens' that you will pay attention to comes once a year. People with psych issues getting tortured legitimately in game happens all the goddamn time.
edit: can't really blame you if you haven't read everything here though, it's getting long and full of stupid
Last edited by Frug; April 3 2012 at 08:14:37 PM.
I read you initial post first as a troll, and then as a pathetic attempt of equivalence between what the miner did and what mittens did. There isn't any, full stop. And thus, it was fucking retarded.My point exactly. You don't care about the miner in question or solving future issues, your primary concern is punishment. It's not going to work, nobody's going to get it any lighter in the future. They're going to get their ships blown up and mocked in game just as badly as before. The only difference is when a guy like Mittens is on a public stage, they'll be afraid to make stupid jokes - which is fine but something that makes me roll my eyes.
But if you want to sound like you have aspergers or something splurging about how I'm limbaugh and something about rape that's totally cool, you show me man. Good job. Durf blurf.
And no, I don't also agree with the notion that Eve is, or should be a game only sociopaths play. But
Then again apperently im the one with aspurgrers so what do I know.
So many words over people telling other people to kill themselves on the internet.
But not enough, so let me add a few more. If the dude is NOT a macro miner and manually runs 20 miner accounts, well that's just sad then. While I don't support acting like a cunt because the internet makes you anonymous it's just something you have to deal with. You'd think a ragequit would happen before you'd get cyber-bullied enough to trigger a suicide, but I'm not a psychologist (internet or other wise).
Your inability to read is probably what you should notice. No equivalence was made or implied.
By all means continue your self righteous witch hunt and fighting back against the 'sociopaths' of Eve. You are truly a force of goodness in the world and will save many from the grief they are in with your carefully thought out responses to events.
No, no. We must correct everyone in Eve to fix the problem. It will work. Let us start by going after the only example that's been loud enough for us to notice and any other examples we happen to see.
Last edited by Frug; April 3 2012 at 08:24:47 PM.
Can we continue beating this horse please? There's still a few solid bits of his flank over there.
I've got this.
Alright, just checking. Need this horse beaten into a good 50 page long bloody soup. Thanks!I've got this.
Yeah, right. Just frowning on this doesn't make a difference, it certainly never had in the past. This sort of behaviour from the Goons (and others as well, just to a lesser degree) was known to quite a number of people in EVE. Especially if your on their hitlist for some reason. That some are just finding out about it surprises me actually. I always thought it was common knowledge. But even having said that, it wasn't unknown that the Goons were up to this sort of OOG shit, even if not everyone knew about how far they went. And a great many players looked down on the Goons for doing it. Anything change? No, nothing. In fact it has only gotten worse. That's what bullies do. If you don't stand up to them, they just keep pushing the boundary.And yet if they're that unstable and invested in it a "ban" for a week could push them over the edge as easily as the ganking. People in that situtation need a trained counselor to listen to them, not one size fits all knee jerk reactions.
And this is completely orthogonal to what should be done about people who like making presentations on how much they've upset others, or who make wiki pages with RL pictures of people, or who mail people's workplaces with game fluff. Even if all that should be done is frowning on that kind of thing.
I knew goons were scum but I thought they kept it on the forums at least. Mailing workplaces and setting up webpages for people is just wrong. I think CCP must take action or this behaviour will continue to escalate until it causes problems for the company. But you know, maybe just frowning on it will stop that.
At the end of it, players individually can't do anything about it really, except ofcourse leave the game. There are probably quite a number of have indeed been hounded out of this game because of all the OOC shit. And who can blame them, really. No, the only one who can do something about this is CCP. There is little they really can do about it happening, but perhaps, in some cases they can attach consequences to this sort of behaviour. Something that goes a little bit beyond just frowning on it. But thus far, lets face it, CCP has done nothing except arguing from the most narrow of positions: "It happens outside the game so it has nothing to do with us." Cheap if you ask me, in more ways than one.
But the end result is there. EVE has a justified reputation not for depicting a dark and harsh universe, that's all fine and dandy. But also has a reputation of a place where all the nasty OOG shit and shenanigans are all allowed. With CCP powerless or, more serious, unwilling to do anything about it. So this is what you get: ever more serious and nasty shit being pulled OOG. No wonder that at one point it came to something like this. And believe me this is a very minor thing if you contemplate what could have happened already.
But this is just a shot before the bow if nothing continues to be done about this. Players frowning on other players for stunts like this? Doesn't make a single difference as long as retards like Lall can just keep coming back with more retarded variants of HTFU. But don't worry, next year with the CSM election we'll have this same discussion all over again. Well done CCP. Unless something doesn't happen before that is.
You state that "The reason this all happened is because HE brought his RL issues into the game with his evemails and THAT is what should be bannable and investigated." - To then say "No equivalence was made or implied." is pretty fucking special even for you.Your inability to read is probably what you should notice. No equivalence was made or implied.
By all means continue your self righteous witch hunt and fighting back against the 'sociopaths' of Eve. You are truly a force of goodness in the world and will save many from the grief they are in with your carefully thought out responses to events.
And Eve is a better game when people actually want to play with you. Allowing attitudes such as "I'm literally entitled to be a dick here, so HTFU" and "I can only win when the other stops playing." to dominate all policy is pretty shortsighted one and I will always argue against it. It's ultimately one the CCP or any games developer can't support, so get over yourselves.
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