Endless Space - New 4X Empire Building Game

[Paradox]

Ok this is a good fun game but I prefer Gal Civ 2. Maybe I just want more depth to a game than this one delivers. Maybe I'm just looking back with rose tinted glasses on a game I haven't played in a few years. Maybe I'm put off by the diplomacy system which seems to make no sense as summed up by my current game where I'm very powerful so no one will sign a peace treaty for me on reasonable terms. They all want me to give them lots of resources in exchange for signing a peace treaty because I'm powerful... that makes no sense to me. I have no interest in expanding outside of my spiral right now as I'm still consolidating my position so I have no interest in attacking them and would like to trade with them but I'm not giving up resources just because I'm stronger.

Hmm, I agree that the diplomacy could be better, the diplomacy in every 4x game could be better. Imo there's more depth here than in GalCiv 2 apart from the ship editor, which I like anyway. I'm looking forward to see what they do with an expansion or so.

[Cerzi]

I want to like it but this is kinda bad, despite the nice polish. Really doesn't seem to have any depth, by mid-game you just spam out units, spam every building in every star system, and have endless wars with the AI that take forever to resolve because the max fleet size is completely tiny compared with the volume of ships you can pump out. "Dust" seems to have bugger-all value, perhaps because theres no fleet upkeep costs, but I end up with hundreds of thousands of the stuff and have no idea what I'm supposed to spend it on. Heroes can't die, and it only costs a few hundred dust to instantly revive them after they lose a fight (which is nothing when you have 500k and counting), but at the same time you can only have a tiny handful of them compared to the number of fleets and star systems you control, which means that they only actually have an effect on 1 fight in every 20. Tech tree is dull, with most of it just being +betterer stuff, and ship customizing seems to just come down to spamming as many lazors as you can fit onto a million destroyers and sacking them endlessly into the enemy.

There are some nice ideas but the game just feels bland and repetitive far too quickly, unless I'm missing something major (seriously, what am I supposed to do with all this dust?).

[Logan Feynman]

I want to like it but this is kinda bad, despite the nice polish. Really doesn't seem to have any depth, by mid-game you just spam out units, spam every building in every star system, and have endless wars with the AI that take forever to resolve because the max fleet size is completely tiny compared with the volume of ships you can pump out. "Dust" seems to have bugger-all value, perhaps because theres no fleet upkeep costs, but I end up with hundreds of thousands of the stuff and have no idea what I'm supposed to spend it on. Heroes can't die, and it only costs a few hundred dust to instantly revive them after they lose a fight (which is nothing when you have 500k and counting), but at the same time you can only have a tiny handful of them compared to the number of fleets and star systems you control, which means that they only actually have an effect on 1 fight in every 20. Tech tree is dull, with most of it just being +betterer stuff, and ship customizing seems to just come down to spamming as many lazors as you can fit onto a million destroyers and sacking them endlessly into the enemy.

There are some nice ideas but the game just feels bland and repetitive far too quickly, unless I'm missing something major (seriously, what am I supposed to do with all this dust?).

Almost exactly what I'm feeling right now. Fleet combat and ship design is marginally more interesting than GalCiv II, and it was pretty bad there. Stemming from the same design choice, we also have the stupid "better rails/better lazers/better missiles" tech tree which provides no fun. Other parts of the tech tree are more interesting, but the concept seems to offer too much choice and not enough depth.

Diplomacy is not exactly stellar, colony management, although it claims to be streamlined is basically a chore and also lacks interesting options.

The game lacks good tradeoffs that impact the game in a meaningful way while retaining balance.

Also, entire game feels sterile ... :-/ Yes it's sleek and polished but I can't get immersed in it. Some charm is missing, it feels like it was designed by an AI, taking bits and pieces from other games without an overarching vision or goal.

I'm halfway through my second game and it already feels too easy and too repetitive.

Also, where are +fleet supply techs ... I can see three altogether, +2, +3, and +4. Is that all?

[Chrien]

Theres no way this game has more depth than Gal Civ 2. Its actually far more streamlined and shallow. As I said though its still a good game its just not great.

[Irrelephant]

Also, where are +fleet supply techs ... I can see three altogether, +2, +3, and +4. Is that all?

The +2 one is for each unlocked hull you got. Altough it doesn't make much sense to have such small fleet cap in something that futuristic i can see why they did it.

[Skeptic]

Remember when Civ5 got slated by some for the AI cheating..

They just spam you with fleets created out of thin air. Decent game on the surface but there are many annoying little bugs and happenings.

[Logan Feynman]

Remember when Civ5 got slated by some for the AI cheating..

They just spam you with fleets created out of thin air. Decent game on the surface but there are many annoying little bugs and happenings.

Twenty turns in a row I got attacked in the same system with an identical fleet. Destroyed it without losses each time, maxed the level of both my space leaders.

Ok, second play-through ... the game played faster, I understood most of it, beat all AIs even easier. Barely any fun was had. The fights really get tedious. I invade a system, AI comes with 12-20 fleets, leeroys all of them one by one on my hero-led fleet which emerges unscathed.

I am really dissapointed right now.

[shaewyn]

Ladies and Gentlemen, on July 8, this thread has now jumped the shark.

From this point forward, you can expect to see almost nothing but complaining about the game, as the people who like the game are playing the game, but the people who don't like the game have nothing better to do.

:P

That being said, I do enjoy the game.

[Adam C]

even tho its kind of shallow right now. Amplified* has said they have a long way togo with this game. i think their really smart and know they must deal with ES current issues. Fingers crossed.

[Aramendel]

What really annoys me is the planet/system management screen. There you have like 95% PRETTY GRAPHICS and 5% list whith queued build orders. Thats not exactly good UI design. It is faster to rebuild a whole queue than to put an item from the bottum to the top.

I find it kinda shallow too - I really miss the complexity of MoO2 with the assault shuttles, tractor beams, inertia destabilzers, cloaking devices, etc etc. It's kinda sad that a 16 year old game is leaps and bounds more complex than what we get today.

[Irrelephant]

What really annoys me is the planet/system management screen. There you have like 95% PRETTY GRAPHICS and 5% list whith queued build orders. Thats not exactly good UI design. It is faster to rebuild a whole queue than to put an item from the bottum to the top.

I find it kinda shallow too - I really miss the complexity of MoO2 with the assault shuttles, tractor beams, inertia destabilzers, cloaking devices, etc etc. It's kinda sad that a 16 year old game is leaps and bounds more complex than what we get today.

Yea pretty annoying, the galaxy map is also almost useless when you zoom out. Did not even want to try a bigger map due to that.

[Logan Feynman]

What really annoys me is the planet/system management screen. There you have like 95% PRETTY GRAPHICS and 5% list whith queued build orders. Thats not exactly good UI design. It is faster to rebuild a whole queue than to put an item from the bottum to the top.

I find it kinda shallow too - I really miss the complexity of MoO2 with the assault shuttles, tractor beams, inertia destabilzers, cloaking devices, etc etc. It's kinda sad that a 16 year old game is leaps and bounds more complex than what we get today.

So much this.

Also - Moo2 tech tree was the most brilliant 4X innovation and no one even tried copying it. Not too much tech, each tech brings something new and useful, and miniaturises something old, and each time you choose a tech you are making a difficult and interesting choice, as you can only get one effect - do I need planetary shields or ship shields or a long-range weapon? Do I need research computer or targeting computer? The interesting part was that, to choose one, you had to abandon others. I hate GalCiv tech tree "marginally better guns x20" with a passion and this one seems to be copy-pasted from there.

It is so sad that no game has come even close to Moo2's game design. UI design is another matter, of course, but the underlying game remains unsurpassed.

And when they already copied GalCiv's stupid tech tree and retarded not-even-rock-paper-scissors combat and ship design, together with simple black and white alignment (what is it for, anyway?), why didn't they at least copy the good parts of GalCiv, like multiple choices on random events - at least they make you feel involved and give you options to choose from, not just "your economy was boosted 20% by some guy" or "your administrators were corrupt, -20 to economy".

It is so frustrating to see another company have the resources and the desire to make a new turn-based 4X game and then make this bland soulless game.

There are other victory conditions except military, right? But if I want AI to stop suiciding its fleets on my choke I have to exterminate them, and then I have all these fleets and nothing to do...

[Mavolio]

Is there any way to make the maps bigger and more spread out? Currently playing against 3 AI and i'm at war with them all. I've got all the choke points into my area covered but they keep sending huge numbers of fleets against me across the void (not along travel lines) and i can hardly keep them at bay as i have to defend every single one of my systems as i cant intercept them before they arrive.

It is faster to rebuild a whole queue than to put an item from the bottum to the top.

I found out that if you select an item in the queue but dont move the mouse you can still use the middle mouse button to scroll. So you can select an item at the bottom scroll to the top move the mouse a bit and the icon appears.


edit: i rly liked Imperium Galactica 2 shame the 3rd was never finished and they just ripped out the combat part and made "nexus: the Jupiter incident" which was quite good so not a complete loss.

[Chrien]

I hate the whole lane system too. Its such a dumbed down mechanic aimed to make it easy to turtle. I miss Gal Civ's starbases too, so great for creating synergies.

[Steph]

You know there's a mid-level tech that lets you travel off the strings right?

[Joshua Foiritain]

Is there any way to make the maps bigger and more spread out? Currently playing against 3 AI and i'm at war with them all. I've got all the choke points into my area covered but they keep sending huge numbers of fleets against me across the void (not along travel lines) and i can hardly keep them at bay as i have to defend every single one of my systems as i cant intercept them before they arrive.

The only options you have are in the map settings when creating a game. Iirc dense galaxy + distant constellations + average wormhole connections spreads out various constellations reasonably well but the enemy is still going to lob ships at you across the void at the same rate. All it will do is buy you some time before the first wave arrives.

Theres a topic on the Endless forum about modding out the ability to travel outside lanes, the modding itself is easy as its changing some 0's in an xml but the topic doesnt explain how to find the xml's

http://forums.amplitude-studios.com/...tside-of-lanes

Apart from that; make sure not to build anything beyond destroyers, everything after that is shit and a waste of resources. Fill destroyers with 2/3 or 1/2 defensive systems + rep system and the rest weapons. Works best but if your enemy tends to focus on a single weapon system, though the ai does adapt after a while. (cravers for example tend to roll 100% missile fits until you start kicking their asses by bringing a butload of flak). An even split across defensive systems also works but is obviously slightly less effective.

As for the game, its petty interesting, obviously well polished but at the same time quite lacking in many areas.
The actual combat system isnt terribly interesting and im fairly certain my fleets tend to do better when i autoresolve combat
Planet management is a bitch on huge maps, the ai builder does okay but i dont really trust it
Ai seems to spam infinite ships regardless of what its planets can actually produce.
Ai is kinda retarded when it comes to declaring war. Who the fuck owns 4 planets and wardecs someone with 30+ planets?
Diplomacy is largely uninteresting. Ai's are bitchy about various trade offers and flatout refuse to sell planets. Plus they keep demanding absurd things to end a war which theyre losing hard.
The victory status overview is pretty shit, theres no way to see if an enemy is about to score a victory.
The music is gets really fucking annoying after a while.
Fleets all use the same icon on the map regardeless of the ships in it which makes managing 30+ fleets of various ships types a bitch to manage during invasions.
Horatio is hilariously overpowered, being able to clone that one good hero a buttload of time is just silly.
The research screen is quite useless the first time around, most of the descriptions dont really tell you much.
All the races are rather identical apart from a few small points.
No idea why some heroes have a stealing/spying/etc trait, pretty sure thats not in the game.
The overlays on the planets in the map dont really have all that much info, the mouseover thingie helps but requires mouseovering obviously.
Weapon choices are rather limited, same with defensive systems.
Ship modules are plain uninteresting.
Using anything beyond a destroyer is pointless as theyre wildly overpowered.
Dust becomes kinda overpowered once youre making +2k a turn, you can just insta heal heroes and buyout all your production.
Max fleet sizes dont really match the amount of ships you can field. Fighting with 30+ maxed fleets against 30+ fleets is a fucking chore.
Random events that nerf you ship speed by 50% permanently are fucking annoying.
Only two types of heroes are useful, the corp + industry and the fleet commanders. The half corporate half fleet command ones after fucking trash.
Trading is vague and kinda hit and miss, theres no way to tell if a system will be able to trade when you build the upgrades so you end up having to remove them again if it turns out you cant.

Just a few things

Still its an interesting game, played two huge universes as custom sowers. Turning 40% of production into food and being able to colonize everything from the start is pretty awesome. Saves a load of time on upgrades and allows you to snag good systems/chokepoints right away. Got bored both times about 200 turns in, npcs kept lobbing fleets from all directions and i kept blowing them to shit. Actually grinding down their empire takes for fucking ever though as a lot of resources go into keeping the defense fleets intact. Since chokepoints no longer work every single fucking planet needs a full fleet, at the latest tech level preferably with health and xp bonuses. Fortunately i was crapping out so much dust i could just buy several fleets per turn.

Rolled custom horatio on a small galaxy today, being able to clone the corporate+industry (lol +25 production, +20% production, +50 food, +30% everything) hero 3 or 4 times makes the early game absurdly easy. Literally claimed half the galaxy while the npcs was crapping out their third of fourth system. +3 or +4 system influence is hilarious as well as it helps lock npcs out of a bunch more systems. Steamrolled the other three factions fairly easily after that.

I like the game but it still needs a lot of work tbh.

[Chrien]

You know there's a mid-level tech that lets you travel off the strings right?

yes but by then if you've turtled right the game is over...

[Ralara]

What really annoys me is the planet/system management screen. There you have like 95% PRETTY GRAPHICS and 5% list whith queued build orders. Thats not exactly good UI design. It is faster to rebuild a whole queue than to put an item from the bottum to the top.

I find it kinda shallow too - I really miss the complexity of MoO2 with the assault shuttles, tractor beams, inertia destabilzers, cloaking devices, etc etc. It's kinda sad that a 16 year old game is leaps and bounds more complex than what we get today.

So much this.

Also - Moo2 tech tree was the most brilliant 4X innovation and no one even tried copying it. Not too much tech, each tech brings something new and useful, and miniaturises something old, and each time you choose a tech you are making a difficult and interesting choice, as you can only get one effect - do I need planetary shields or ship shields or a long-range weapon? Do I need research computer or targeting computer? The interesting part was that, to choose one, you had to abandon others. I hate GalCiv tech tree "marginally better guns x20" with a passion and this one seems to be copy-pasted from there.

I always played as Psilons Get ALLLL the tech!

[cheeba]

Will the developers being doing any more work on the game or now that it has released they are just going to cash in and move on?

[Overspark]

It's kinda sad that a 16 year old game is leaps and bounds more complex than what we get today.

To be fair, this is true for the vast majority of games that are made these days. And it's not a bad thing either, streamlining games usually means more people enjoy them.

There is some hardcore sperging going on in the last few pages that isn't entirely deserved imho. Sure, there are still several issues, but afaik the developers intend to continue working on it, and if the alpha -> beta -> release progress is an indication of how things continue to go I have high hopes for this game.