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Thread: PROM4CSM7

  1. #41
    ry ry's Avatar
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    You fluffed the first half of your stay on the CSM, but once you were getting more involved the Game Balance platform produced some great results.

    I'll give you one of my votes, just don't fuck it up. :P

  2. #42
    Donor Lorkin Desal's Avatar
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    want an interview with podgoo.com?
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo
    The evolution of the meme. From shipspinning to meatspinning.

  3. #43
    prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorkin Desal View Post
    want an interview with podgoo.com?
    sure, when?
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Prom is right and you're dumb.
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  4. #44

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    What is your view on clone costs for hi sp players?

  5. #45
    prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inora aknaria View Post
    What is your view on clone costs for hi sp players?
    ISK sinks are needed. Until another mandatory sink is developed, there's no reason to remove clone costs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Prom is right and you're dumb.
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  6. #46
    Takon Orlani's Avatar
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    Dinner table logic incoming:
    What if ecm were re designed to target high mid or low slot modules through the use of scripts?

    What do you think of such an idea and has it been discussed already?

    ...posted from a potato.

  7. #47
    prometheus's Avatar
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    I believe the idea of ECM jamming modules has been thrown around already.
    As for your take on it, I think it's still fairly crap and would still be (by far) the most powerful ewar module.
    You'd now have a module that would work as something that's more effective than TDs, Defenders, & Neuts combined.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
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  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    ...irrelevant at any rate, as redesigning all ewar isn't something i'm looking into, just balancing ecm.
    so youre cool with the same module fitting both a supercarrier and a t1 frig and having the same effect on target regardless of the massive disparity in available power?

    let alone choking the possibilities of risk vs reward if ewar mods were redesigned for differing sized hulls like rigs, and staggering their effectiveness based on the ship using it.

  9. #49
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    I'm not saying I'm cool with it, I just haven't heard or though of a solution that I'd be comfortable backing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Prom is right and you're dumb.
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  10. #50

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    I'll be resubbing to give you my vote m8.

    Also that lowsec questionnaire was a good read
    My latest PVP video: Freestyle III

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    I believe the idea of ECM jamming modules has been thrown around already.
    As for your take on it, I think it's still fairly crap and would still be (by far) the most powerful ewar module.
    You'd now have a module that would work as something that's more effective than TDs, Defenders, & Neuts combined.
    ECM have a miss chance built into it by default.

    So are you against modules that have high variance (sometimes no effect, sometimes massive effect)?

    I consider ECM the great equalizer myself, since some n00b in a rupture could get lucky and jam out a mach and kill it. Without such unpredictable factors, the incentive to engage for weaker forces is even lower then it is today. This is of course a slap in the face for elite pvp and folks that consider themselves superior to their opponent and have stacked many expensive advantages on top of another.

  12. #52
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    It's moreso that while it is intended as a force multiplier, that is not how it actually works right now.
    The fact that ECM currently removes people from a fight entirely is what bothers me to no end.
    It currently functions as a (questionably) random mechanic that people can mass and grossly overwhelm people with relative ease.
    It's moderately ease to use, simple to train, and relentlessly effective to the point where all other forms of ewar are vastly inferior.

    Why TD when you can jam?
    Why damp when you can jam?
    Why TP when you can... okay tp isn't really offensive..
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
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  13. #53

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    Why Ewar when you can 1400mm people's asses? As it stands, disabling Ewar must be more effective then damage in its ability to remove players for it to get fielded.

    I think ECM/Ewar have following properties:
    1. Ewar functions like logi in some types of big-vs-small engagements. If it gets fielded it, it lowers effective damage which allows larger groups to lower variance and win harder, however ECM have high variance in default. If other types of ewar becomes effective in itself, say damps, the conditions are far worst. Damps are totally blob friendly, if it actually works then the tears is going to be bad. Logi also have extremely low variance.

    2. If there is anything particular about ECM is that it gets applied to opponent force multipliers and in some sense more lazy then logi and TD that works relatively distributed. I would say ECM would be considerably worst if specialist ships like logi or recon don't work so well.

    That said, in a ECM free environment, smaller groups are further nerfed due to insufficient numbers to field force multipliers and no cheap counter to them. The calls for on grid links and more specialist ships is going to make groups too small to field much of them less and less viable.

    ----
    If there is a logistics ship that can covops cloak and whore every KM without effort, I'm not sure it is less "broken" then falcons from a balance perspective. Suddenly guardians is probably more annoying without the occasional upside, if we look at the highsec neutral logi issue. In semi-consensual combat where both sides scout each other, the removal of cloaks would probably end a lot of annoyance.

    -----
    If it is merely the problem of ease of use and training, then we can add a 14x skill and tighter application rules (eg. ewar works like turrets and have tracking). Like ANYONE would accept that as a solution.

    I think the REAL problem with ECM is that getting locked out while in a fight is so zomg frustrating experience. This is very different from strategic balance issues.
    Last edited by Shin_getter; March 5 2012 at 07:11:27 AM.

  14. #54
    Super Moderator DonorGlobal Moderator whispous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin_getter View Post
    I consider ECM the great equalizer myself, since some n00b in a rupture could get lucky and jam out a mach and kill it.

    That reasoning is so retarded I think some of my organs just jumped ship for a less angry body

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by whispous View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shin_getter View Post
    I consider ECM the great equalizer myself, since some n00b in a rupture could get lucky and jam out a mach and kill it.

    That reasoning is so retarded I think some of my organs just jumped ship for a less angry body
    Could not have said it better myself. As usual shin getter's argument's don't make sense, sometimes I wonder if he even actually plays the game
    My latest PVP video: Freestyle III

  16. #56
    HEY LOOK AT ME I HAVE A TITAN LordsServant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiroi Okami View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by whispous View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shin_getter View Post
    I consider ECM the great equalizer myself, since some n00b in a rupture could get lucky and jam out a mach and kill it.

    That reasoning is so retarded I think some of my organs just jumped ship for a less angry body
    Could not have said it better myself. As usual shin getter's argument's don't make sense, sometimes I wonder if he even actually plays the game
    I think some noob beating a mach should be down to how good that noob is at flying his rupture. No 'true' noob should beat even a half decent mach pilot. With that said however, Garmon should be able to omgwtfpwn the everliving shit out of a semi-nooby mach in a rupture.

    Skills should > isk.

    Shitty mechanics should NOT be the deciding factor.

    Also, numbers should NOT > isk/skill combined tbh, at least not easily. 100 extremely skilled and badass players should walk all over 1k terribru players with no skill(sorry mittens, but FUCK your blobbing game).

    I am a Lamborghini tractor.

  17. #57

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    Variance does not lower the skill cap, and instead raises it. Without random factors, players can choose the path the a fight progresses down, and both sides would converge to a small set of dominant strategies which generates a finite number of situations. With random factors, fights can progress down paths that both sides did not prepare for and the amount of knowledge and skill required to respond to all those situation greatly increases. In games where players have many viable choices at many points in the game, which translates to massive number of possible game states, random factors is not necessary, however eve is not one of those games.

    If everything is predictable, you can very much have flow chart PvP, while random factors can throw a wrench into such plans and players will have to improvise when strange things happen.
    -----
    Variance does lower the chance of the stronger force winning. I do not consider that a problem, since any fight that is 100% predictable is pointless, and every fight should give the underdog some chance of winning, skill or no skill. This is a MMO and having a point in each interaction is more important then absolute convergence of results to strength. Eve does not have an effectuve matchmaking function and mismatches are too common, making it pointless fights even worst.

    Now the greater gaming community always wanted more skill in they game and I understand that sentiment, but I don't view Eve as any other game.

    Eve is probably the THE WORST game for "skillful competitive fighting" since it is a RPG (oh skillpoints) with seriously scarce, consumable items (oh pirate BS, oh caps), and a sandbox (oh bring 1000 friends). Pretty much ever other game on the market is better at being a test of skill then Eve is. "Eve is real" and real war is not a short test of skill between well matched opponents, and I don't particularly demand it to be so.

    My vision for Eve isn't a club of elite PvP guys fighting each other backed by armies of money alts. My vision is a war of all against all, where the weakest and the strongest can (and must) get mixed up in unpredictable combat while everyone throws their own piece of dice to influence the world.

  18. #58
    Raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin_getter View Post
    Stuff.
    You seriously shit up every thread you touch.
    Quote Originally Posted by joe space View Post
    burning straight up when surrounded by bad guys... when you explode you will be a rising beautiful testament to el33t pvp escaping into the ether above those beneath you and they will immediately realize, upon viewing your bold presence above them, their inferiority and they will feel bad for what they done.
    EVE: Raz Lictor
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  19. #59
    prometheus's Avatar
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    In other news:
    So, how does all that affect you? Starting with EVE Online: Inferno, we will begin revamping ship classes one after the other, making sure obsolete hulls serve a purpose. This is still in the research phase and constructive feedback is most appreciated while we wait for the next ship balancing blog to come out, dedicated to how such changes will impact the Amarr Empire fleet.
    source: http://community.eveonline.com/devbl...blog&nbid=9129

    CCP is looking to start rebalancing ship for the next expansion.
    There is nobody better for aid in this than myself []
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Prom is right and you're dumb.
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  20. #60
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    You got my vote as long as you promise to (try to) make the navy osprey awesome (or less terrible). And other tier1 faction cruisers as well.



    (oh and nerf the ugly piece of wood, tainting the name "hurricane", into the ground)

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