Possible AF boost stats

[Tyrus Tenebros]

:not sure if serious:

I frequently roll a Huginn w/ Fed Navy webs..... 103km heated with bonuses.......

You can fit a Huggin on your tornado?

[OrangeAfroMan]

:not sure if serious:

I frequently roll a Huginn w/ Fed Navy webs..... 103km heated with bonuses.......

You can fit a Huggin on your tornado?

Your point? They were talking about two webs on target..... since when is a Tornado fitting two webs with 1400s shooting from 70-80km?

[OrangeAfroMan]

Wolf is actually.... a bit impressive if you don't plate it....

4x 150 IIs, Small Dim Nos

Limited MWD, J5B scram

SAR II, ANP II, Pseud DCU, 2x Gyro

Projectile Ambit I, Projectile Burst II

~355 DPS heated with Hail.... only 5k EHP though.


In my opinion all the AFs should be able to fit something like that which nets them around 250-300 non-heated DPS. Vengeance/Hawk with sub-200 non-heated, RAGE DPS is pretty lol :/

They should also be balanced around fitting a Nos in their utility high, IMO.

[n0th]

.. and now look at the Harpy - can put out the same amount of DPS while having three times the eHP.
Hawk can tank 600dps w/ a bit of faction and links, while still having sufficient tackle.

[Tsubutai]

In my opinion all the AFs should be able to fit something like that which nets them around 250-300 non-heated DPS. Vengeance/Hawk with sub-200 non-heated, RAGE DPS is pretty lol :/

They should also be balanced around fitting a Nos in their utility high, IMO.

The Hawk can do 240 unheated dps in a similar lightly-tanked gank fit with a nos, and the Vengeance can do 230 without a nos but with an insane base cap regen that pretty much compensates.

[Sudden]

Surely you have some juicy relateds ready to back up that statement.

http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...l&kll_id=62848
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...l&kll_id=63013
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...d&kll_id=63127
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...d&kll_id=63279

There is lots more but vOv

[Tsubutai]

Surely you have some juicy relateds ready to back up that statement.

http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...l&kll_id=62848
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...l&kll_id=63013
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...d&kll_id=63127
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...d&kll_id=63279

There is lots more but vOv

I have seen people use 1400mm tornadoes in actual fights, but... pretty much all of those links show massively one-sided ganks; the closest thing to an 'even' fight in that list has you outnumbering the other guys 28:19 (and losing the all-important isk war in the process thanks to some guy's snake pod going poof).

[Sudden]

Surely you have some juicy relateds ready to back up that statement.

http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...l&kll_id=62848
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...l&kll_id=63013
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...d&kll_id=63127
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...d&kll_id=63279

There is lots more but vOv

I have seen people use 1400mm tornadoes in actual fights, but... pretty much all of those links show massively one-sided ganks; the closest thing to an 'even' fight in that list has you outnumbering the other guys 28:19 (and losing the all-important isk war in the process thanks to some guy's snake pod going poof).

Well the problem with flying a 1400 Pest fleet is it is hard to get fights with them, we routed that abso gang, btw. Outside of Syndicate, who knows? But pilots do undock in fleets of these and leave their home system and roam instead of just camping, which noth implied noone does. The fact that we can't find a fight doesn't rule out the ships viability in a fleet.

[ry ry]

we engaged some vindis+neutral logi hisec faggots in who wardecced us at zero on a station in a mixture of tornados and orcas (orcas, not oracles) and we welped. conclusive proof tornados are shit if you ask me.

i also HILARIOUSLY lost one to a hisec plex, as i'm sure drealer will point out if he sees i posted in this thread >

I'm more bitter about combat inties - they were already being squeezed out by faction frigs, and now i just don't see a role for them anymore - with AFs you have high DPS, highly mobile frigates bridging the gap between light tackle and destroyers, most of which are perfectly capable of at least driving an interceptor off in the right configuration. faction frigs do that trading survivability for speed. combat inties should be next on the fix list (possibly marginally above EAFs, which actually work but aren't terribly good. suggested fix - make them covops cloaky and leave them shit)

but isn't this thread about assault frigates or something?

[TimNeilson]

Surely you have some juicy relateds ready to back up that statement.

http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...l&kll_id=62848
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...l&kll_id=63013
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...d&kll_id=63127
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...d&kll_id=63279

There is lots more but vOv

I have seen people use 1400mm tornadoes in actual fights, but... pretty much all of those links show massively one-sided ganks; the closest thing to an 'even' fight in that list has you outnumbering the other guys 28:19 (and losing the all-important isk war in the process thanks to some guy's snake pod going poof).

the absofleet one was actually about 25 or so strong, with 4 or 5 guardians. we were having some issues with some of the less tanky absos getting alphaed, but the rest of the stuff was holding reps okay when logis could get it locked (I seem to remember there being some issues with this or with broadcasts or something) but we couldn't actually catch up to the tornados/machs so we wound up having to bail like namamai said.

e: hell, the only reason we caught cass was some client fuckup where his claymore turned around and burned directly at my loki

[Cortess]

What are the current buffs for the Assault Ships at the moment btw? Are they confirmed and will be released as they are? I lost track in this thread about them.

[prometheus]

.. and now look at the Harpy - can put out the same amount of DPS while having three times the eHP.
Hawk can tank 600dps w/ a bit of faction and links, while still having sufficient tackle.

The Harpy can't really do *much* more than 260ish. The ship is still incredibly tight to fit and has huge resist holes like the Wolf.
As for fitting a nos, that's what I kinda intended, and they can all do it.

[n0th]

Not sure if i have the latest pyfa - this is what i came up with after a bit of theorycraftig

[Harpy, test]

Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[Empty High slot]

Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium Shield Extender II

Internal Force Field Array I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II


Does 338 heated dps with Void (lolvoid i know) while having 12.7k eHP.

http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...l&kll_id=62848
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...l&kll_id=63013
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...d&kll_id=63127
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...d&kll_id=63279

There is lots more but vOv

3/4 of those qualify directly as "gatecamp faggotry". The one actual related, mmh ok - guess you should thank those guys for engaging. Wouldnt call that "using Arty Tornados all the time on TQ"

Well the problem with flying a 1400 Pest fleet is it is hard to get fights with them

And you know why? because all this fleet can do is snypa from edge of Lach point range and hope that people engage you on your terms.
You cant tackle really, you certainly cant jump in on stuff, you cant take damage.
Thats as much of a "gang/fleet concept" as welpcanes are (who blob you at least 2:1, wont engage until they have a warpin, and should you actually commit happily trade a recon/mach/tengu of yours for a couple of BCs, then proceed to GTFO and claim victory)

Artymachs at least are reasonably expensive (so gangs may be interested in engaging/chasing) and have an actual tank.

[Sudden]

M8 you didnt ask me to provide a viable meta you just said that noone uses the damn things

Edit: also I said nado fleet not pest fleet

[Mfume]

http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...l&kll_id=62848
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...l&kll_id=63013
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...d&kll_id=63127
http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...d&kll_id=63279

There is lots more but vOv

3/4 of those qualify directly as "gatecamp faggotry". The one actual related, mmh ok - guess you should thank those guys for engaging. Wouldnt call that "using Arty Tornados all the time on TQ"

I don't have a dog in this fight either way, but I will say that there vast differences in typical gangcomps between USTZ Syndicate and RU/EUTZ Curse (you guys still there?).

[n0th]

Derailing the thread, like a bawws~

Now i obviously dont know much about whats going on in US-tz roaming-wise.
The point i was originally trying to make is that the Tornado isnt OP at all. Yeah i admit, you can probably setup a roaming around 1400mm tornados and score ganks + blap away at bigger gangs Artymach-style but its nowhere near overpowered.
We tried AC Tornados , and p much found out that they're ok if you go balls deep and just brawl it out close-range (see http://kb.ds-alliance.com/battle/b3018/), but also nowhere near overpowered.
In fact inferior to Oracles/Nagas w/ proper support (http://kb.ds-alliance.com/battle/b3241/)

And yeah we're still in Curse, but thinking about moving, just not sure where a good spot could be.
The south is a fucking wasteland right now apart from Provi and maybe RA ~homedefence~ fleets (they also moving away though)
Geminate/Drone Region entrances are p much CTA-size blobs, and North... not sure whats up there, but Goons are not particularly known for giving ~goodfites~ to roaming-size fleets.

[Sudden]

Derailing the thread, like a bawws~

Now i obviously dont know much about whats going on in US-tz roaming-wise.
The point i was originally trying to make is that the Tornado isnt OP at all. Yeah i admit, you can probably setup a roaming around 1400mm tornados and score ganks + blap away at bigger gangs Artymach-style but its nowhere near overpowered.
We tried AC Tornados , and p much found out that they're ok if you go balls deep and just brawl it out close-range (see http://kb.ds-alliance.com/battle/b3018/), but also nowhere near overpowered.
In fact inferior to Oracles/Nagas w/ proper support (http://kb.ds-alliance.com/battle/b3241/)

And yeah we're still in Curse, but thinking about moving, just not sure where a good spot could be.
The south is a fucking wasteland right now apart from Provi and maybe RA ~homedefence~ fleets (they also moving away though)
Geminate/Drone Region entrances are p much CTA-size blobs, and North... not sure whats up there, but Goons are not particularly known for giving ~goodfites~ to roaming-size fleets.

Speak of the devil:

http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard...883&adjacent=1

[Malcanis]

Derailing the thread, like a bawws~

Now i obviously dont know much about whats going on in US-tz roaming-wise.
The point i was originally trying to make is that the Tornado isnt OP at all. Yeah i admit, you can probably setup a roaming around 1400mm tornados and score ganks + blap away at bigger gangs Artymach-style but its nowhere near overpowered.
We tried AC Tornados , and p much found out that they're ok if you go balls deep and just brawl it out close-range (see http://kb.ds-alliance.com/battle/b3018/), but also nowhere near overpowered.
In fact inferior to Oracles/Nagas w/ proper support (http://kb.ds-alliance.com/battle/b3241/)

And yeah we're still in Curse, but thinking about moving, just not sure where a good spot could be.
The south is a fucking wasteland right now apart from Provi and maybe RA ~homedefence~ fleets (they also moving away though)
Geminate/Drone Region entrances are p much CTA-size blobs, and North... not sure whats up there, but Goons are not particularly known for giving ~goodfites~ to roaming-size fleets.

Syndicate? Easy hi-sec access, and you're close to Fade, Cloud Ring & Fountain.

[Dante]

I understand the reasons for not giving an AB boost to AFs, but what about giving a modest AB speed bonus to inties? This could give combat inties a role as one of the best ways of keeping up with and dogfighting harder to kill tackle inties?

It seems to me that it wouldn't be as FUBAR due to lower tank/dps and would spice things up a bit.

[prometheus]

Not needed.
Inties are already damn nippy with AB fits, and significantly faster than anything else that may be AB fit.
Heck, they're nearly as fast as MWDing Destroyers.

Just because the ships don't receive as much damage doesnt mean they should be immune to incoming damage.