My version of a nano-ish Retri. I've had good experiences so far:
[Retribution, Retribution - Nano]
Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
[Empty High slot]
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Energy Locus Coordinator II
Actually an '06.
EVE: OrangeAfroMan
Dust514: Andrelommech
MWO: Northern Nomad
Are you useing ab? Also cynbal 2kms easy
Originally Posted by Bizmark
:notsureifretarded:
So what are your actual targets your proposed retribution fit? Industrials, shuttles and noob ships only.
You dont have enough DPS to break anything large, enough ehp to outlast light drones, enough speed to outrun the 'nano' ships you mentioned which will no doubt be on field.
All you seem to be doing is making yourself look like a dumb, un-informed, eft-warrior.
Explain what you want to do with it, I have already explained that its a shitfit but you seem desperate to defend it despite not actually saying anything besides, "HURR DURR NANOS COST BILLIONS".
IS-4, T110E5, T-54, E-50, IS-8, M103, T34, Type 59, M26 Pershing, AMX 13 90, KV-3, SU-122-44, AMX AC Mle. 1946, SU-101, T20, T71, T25/2, KV-1S, T21, Jgdpzr IV, Sherman E8, GW Panther, AMX 12t, M18, Stug III, T-50-2, T-34, PzIV, ELC AMX, Crusader, Covenanter, SU-26, T1, RenaultFT.
Things with pimped oversized ABs are not that fast without links and/or snakes. Even if they have nanos fitted they are not nano ships - see 20+ second align time, gimped dps range (except tengu ofc)
Also, TMA HACs: 2 nanos on a shield Zealot/the shield Deimos, etc. Throw in some cheap Quafe Zero and Zor's Hyperlink...
Thats EFT warrioring. 20 Second align times are only true when you have your AB switched on...Things with pimped oversized ABs are not that fast without links and/or snakes. Even if they have nanos fitted they are not nano ships - see 20+ second align time, gimped dps range (except tengu ofc)
Also, TMA HACs: 2 nanos on a shield Zealot/the shield Deimos, etc. Throw in some cheap Quafe Zero and Zor's Hyperlink...
Lets look at this - nearly 10k EHP... enough to survive light drones. 100dps up to 20km, thats as good as any kiting frigate. Goes up to 140 or so at closer range, which is perfectly acceptable against other frigates.
Please don't accuse people of EFT warrioring unless you understand the difference between ships fighting in optimal and fighting in falloff. i dont care that the incursus/taranis/thrasher/enyo/wolf does 250 dps, it has an optimal of about 1km and 3k-15k falloff - which means your doing no damage for 10 seconds while approaching a target (such as the retribution i have posted) meanwhile you are taking full damage. By the time you get in range, you already lost over a thousand EHP, which is a lot when you only have 4-8k to start off with.
Then you have your 250dps versus his 140, but the retri also has 10k EHP which means you will still die before killing it. Also it has a rep so things are getting worse by the second.
The Rapid Light caracal is generally considered to be a 'frig shredder' which is correct - but its 'paper' dps is only 140. Lasers and Missiles always operate within their optimal range - that's why the DPS on EFT is so low... because in the REAL WORLD (e.g. online space ships) that DPS is very reliable and very constant, with no falloff to worry about.
So yea, 100-140 DPS in optimal is just as good as a ship who uses falloff and does 200dps.
Please don't make wild accusations of EFT warrioring when you yourself are using stats on a page to justify something. Fights don't happen under 1 set or circumstances, the circumstances change during the fight constantly, and the retribution can take advantage of that - which is exactly why my fit is about.
Look, I'm no frigate pilot, and your fit has reasonable EHP and speed, but:
You can't kite and shoot and rep, you have no where near the cap.
Rails Enyo might be 250dps, Blasters it's 340+ (400 with Void, and you won't give them tracking issues when scrambled). And even 7k EHP vs your 10, you lose the race.
You make no account for dual-prop scram frigs that will run you down and fuck your tracking.
Or dealing with cheap nano BCs, you're not that fast or agile and have no range control but flying. Never mind you won't achnowledge cheap fast HACs, how about nano Harb/Cane/Drake/Talos?
Hell, how would you cope against
[Merlin, yo]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Medium Shield Extender II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
125mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
125mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
125mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator II
It will run you down, it will hold you outside MF range, it has almost the same EHP and dps, and it's a fraction of the price.
What ships do you expect to kill? Yes projectile ships aren't doing the dps, but they can GTFO vs you. Hybrid weapons will match your ehp & dps, or far out-dps you if they get a tackle. IDK missile ships but maybe that's your only target, rocket ships that are slower?
That merlin would kite out of MF range, so swap to scorch - and scorch WILL track him - remember his MWD will be turned off.
And btw when you said you didnt fly frigs, that was all you needed to say. I fly in RVB and frigates are the norm, it's widely accepted that the retribution is the best frigate in the game for its ability to do these things. Dual prop fits on frigate take up A LOT of fitting and as such either sacrifices EHP or DPS, which still leaves you with the advantage.
There is no dual prop, 8k EHP, 350 dps frigates out there.
Speed
DPS
EHP
Range
Tackle
Basically pick 2, and get 50% of a third. The retribution however gets EHP by default and about 80% of the range, That means you can plug 2 other holes and the range issue and end up with 4/5 instead of 2.5/5.
The vengeance is exactly the same except it NEVER gets range.
----------P.s.
That fit only does 110 DPS and needs hyrbid rigging level 5 to even fit. The retribution would EAT that thing without even going into half armor.
Last edited by Bizmark; June 8 2012 at 12:35:05 PM.
Closest thign i could get was this:
[Enyo, Dual pro]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Limited 1MN Afterburner I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
[Empty High slot]
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Hobgoblin II x1
10k EHP, 300 DPS, 2km opti, 2100 m/s
Its only like 70m/s faster than the retribution, any fight that doesnt start on 0 the retri will kite and melt him easily.
See above Checklist:
DPS: Yes
EHP: Yes
Tackle: 50%
Range: No
Speed: No
Overheat its guns, load decent ammo for the range, and remember it's capable of 2.8km/s before heat, 4km/s with, with full tackle, so starting from 9km away it only has to burn out of your long point while you start at 40% of your base speed. How would you kill it? 3seconds before it's gone, and you could never keep up with it anyway. As for fitting, cheap implants, and/or downgrade the MSE.
The Enyo I was looking at was something like
[Enyo, new? cheap MAPC]
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
1MN Afterburner II
Light Neutron Blaster II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Light Ion Blaster II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Hobgoblin II x1
Fractionally faster, dps is 300 at 4+4 with Null, 374 at 1+3 with fAM, 416 at 2+1 with Void. Before cheap implants. The key point being I wouldn't expect the pilot to try chase you from the edge of your point range and thus never get into optimal but instead engage closer or warp off, and you can't chase him down becase of no real speed diff+no tackle, and that they'd turn back in your face and have you held in optimal in a second or two. Remember too your thermal hole.
How do you handle scram+web+rails Ishkur? Actually how do you handle any AF that can do >2km and has a scram? To keep them you must chase directly after, do so and can't they just drive-by scram and be off before you've turned & starting moving from 350m/s again?
This (your Retribution) is an AF, what other AFs can it keep & kill? Of course it'll take out some T1 frigs.
I think he is trying to do an upgrade of this
Bizmark, stop being so blind, the retribution doesnt have enough DPS or speed with that fit to kit and kill anything before it gets welped.
It doesnt have enough speed to outrun tackle, enough DPS to burn them down or enough EHP to outlast them. It has nothing going for it, yet you still viciously defend it without actually saying what its good for?
The slicer does better DPS at better range with better speed, less EHP but if you are needing the extra EHP you are probably dead anyways.
Lost that slicer thanks to the remote sensor boosting on the cane. warp into bubble with another frig, instantly scrammed, dead. sucks :<
And yea the fit isn't amazing at any one thing, but it does well at a lot of things. It makes it an excellent ship for unexpected encounters.
And people REALLY need to grasp that this things has like 20km optimal. Rail gun fits just wont trouble it...
P.S.
Daneel, you have literally no EHP on that fit compared to a plated AF, which is where the retri would have its advantage.
1+3+3.4 says PyFA. Gal hulltank ftw. Seems comparable to your 1+6+3, 7.5 vs 10, hardly 0.
125s, 1 TE, Spike S = 40km optimal, 8 falloff. I think even without the TE and T2 ammo, 125s or 150s can rival your range, and track you when mwding.
Think I like this more than my old kiting setup... faster, not quite as agile and a little less range (though 17+2.5km is quite good). Lots more EHP with the addition of the DCU.
[Retribution, Retribution - Nano copy]
Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Internal Force Field Array I
Overdrive Injector System II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
[Empty High slot]
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Since TQ is down, here are the specs:
229 | 263 DPS w/ IN MF @ 5.63+2.5km
183 | 210 DPS w/ Scorch @ 16.9+2.5km
7.74k EHP
2708 | 3857 m/s
4.11s no-mwd align time
45.2mil isk at time of posting
Last edited by OrangeAfroMan; June 10 2012 at 11:03:47 AM.
Actually an '06.
EVE: OrangeAfroMan
Dust514: Andrelommech
MWO: Northern Nomad
From some analysis my buddies in TeamLiquid did, it turns out that a Nanofiber > Overdrive UNLESS if you burn in a straight line for ~20 seconds, at least for a Rifter. Plus, considering how much of a Retri feels like when kiting, I would strongly recommend swapping Overdrive with Nanofiber. Also gives you more m3 for loot.
I don't fit nanofibers to ships whose primary source of EHP is their structure - frigates and Gallente ships in particular.
Actually an '06.
EVE: OrangeAfroMan
Dust514: Andrelommech
MWO: Northern Nomad
Just to toss this out there...
[Retribution, pr0]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Fourier Transform Tracking Program
Fourier Transform Tracking Program
Gistii B-Type 1MN MicroWarpdrive
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
[empty high slot]
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Energy Burst Aerator I
Seems kinda silly to fly after experiencing my harpy, but it isn't bad, and I suppose it would shake things up if ppl are used to seeing a harpy raping stuff.
Similar dps (219@21km optimal, so ~8 more dps with heat), 5.2k EHP (.2 less than the harpy, but it's in armor so nonregenable..). It has more cap stability - 4m 19 as opposed to 2m 28 on the harpy; just prop, tackle, and guns running in heat. Aligns in 5.4, 2428 m/s pre heat, both marginally better than the harpy, but u lose the extremely sexy "STOP RIGHT THERE" that the dual webs of the harpy has.
Retribution does have one tangible benefit tho - if/when something does manage to scram you and get close, you can instaswap to IN MF for 274 heated dps, or conflag for 306 heated dps. (conflag has 7km optimal, so works even if they try to semi kite u). This + your superior tracking (literally 3x + better) does help to slightly make up for your lack of dual webs, but I'd still rather have the better range the harpy is capable of + regenable buffer + dual webs.
I may buy a few just to have a look-see at how effective they may be. An old m8 of mine from Raiden flies a similar setup (this setup was partially inspired by his) so it has been confirmed to work ingame.
Just as a side comment, someone asked me about the whole heating/mod placement on my EFT fits - I prefer to be able to easily see whats ON a ship in my EFT fits. I fit mods according to heat placement in game. Placing them a certain way on EFT only makes it harder to see what's on the setup.
Counterpoint: importing fits to save everyone time & heat damage.
Mind you, when they change them to include ammo loaded & in cargo, along with restoring the rig fitting feature, we'll see if the format needs changing.
T2 collision would be better imo as it means less cap consumed.
I build my fit manually the first time, then save it ingame. I only import fits so others can easily click link to see fits.
@Warmenhoven - True, but ur cap stability is generally fine as-is, tho it isn't a huge dps difference between the two. (Also I seem to have derped, u have 7m 17s of cap, not sure how I got the lower cap amount). I just auto fit burst to all my fits :P
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