Someone give me a decent guide on vayne, I am aware of the generalness but I want a competent Vayne player from here to let me know as I'm sure theres a couple here.
I ask because I just did a game as her, died four times in lane and still just raped through the enemy team (lol)
So brokenly OP its funny
Last edited by FUzziBabes; January 25 2012 at 10:42:11 PM.
Standard seems to be wriggles -> zerker -> Zeal -> Cleaver -> PD -> Then whatever you want, because you are the Goddamn Vayne.
R>W>Q>E is the skill order I prefer. I've seen some guides say maxing E before anything else, but that's probably out of your skill range atm, considering what you said in the OP.
How I Vayne, a story by Zekk Pacus.
Standard carry 21/0/9 or 21/9/0, whatever you feel happier with. I like the movement speed mastery, so I generally go 21/0/9.
Standard carry start - if you have a heal in lane and can play agressive, get a Doran's. If not, boots + 3 pots.
Skills is R>E>Q>W. W is a lategame spell, it scales off enemy max health and thus won't be much good until lategame. People get all herp derp about it but really, it's a tiny amount of Vayne's total damage. The key to Vayne's damage is the E burst against a wall and the Q crits, plus the free AD on ult.
I generally go BF Sword into zerkers greaves and Infinity Edge, Phantom Dancer, then whatever because honestly I'm two-shotting people by that point. But Vayne has a lot of free AD on ult, so more attack speed is always reasonable early on. A build that is increasingly popular is a rushed Black Cleaver - the attack speed helps you really hurt someone and the damage is insane with your Q. But honestly, the most broken part of Vayne is tumble - it's an autoattack reset with a hefty AD buff that also applies on hits and scales with crits. This is why I like rushed Edge so much - Tumble crits are gg, easy 1000 damage. As with all other carries, get Lantern if you're going to need it to survive the lane or you want to threaten early dragons.
Apart from that, it's pretty standard. Always be looking to line up the E on a wall - it does SO MUCH damage if you line it up right and the person is a free kill because of the stun.
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I do 24/6/0 on vayne, she is not mana hungry. Just get standard ad masteries + havoc and both resistances from defense. Doran's blade unless you got janna, than boots 3 pots. I tend to max Q early for harass and burst power, than E for obvious reasons. W only when you build some items. First item goal is 2 doran's (vayne starting hp is 360, kogmaw for comparison is 450 graves is 420 etc), boots - if you doing well farm till zerks 2 doran's + vamp scepter (1750g app). Wriggles is no longer good enough to justify postponing your real items pretty much on all ad carries; wamp scepter 2 doran's and lifesteal masteries is enough not to get bt anyway as well. Bf sword, streight into inifinity + zeal than pd. res is obvious, i tend to favour qss and GA on vayne over banshee. If enemies are not building armor midgame fuck them, get another PD.
Yes, you leave that wamp scepter, or not get him anyway if you feel like but 12% lifesteal is pretty much for 450g, no need to upgrade it anysson. Might get bt from it after IE/PD.
When to play Vayne - your team got great fight control, many tanks / bruisers - kennen, galio, amumu, cass you know what i mean. Good pick if enemies are not using caitlyn / kogmaw. She can deal with graves.
What just shits on Vayne - caitlyn.
Since this is an AD carry thread, which carry/carries counter Tristana? Seen her getting real popular lately, not used to dealing with them.
In fact if somebody could cobble together a list of which carry counters which, it'd be really helpful imo.
Edit: I remember reading in a Solomid guide recently that closer ranged carries like Vayne benefit more from BT than they did IE, and longer ranged ones benefitted more from IE than they did BT. Example: Ashe.
That true or what?
Last edited by Omega Supreme; December 10 2011 at 08:23:15 AM.
I am not a big fan of Havoc. 1.5% damage buff is almost nothing. literally - let's be generous and presume you have 400 AD. Havoc makes that into 406.
I would much rather go 21 / 0 / 9 or 21 / 9 / 0 and pick up some more useful stuff like buff duration, movespeed, or HP5 (3hp5 adds up to quite a lot in the long run)
You could make a bit more of a case for Executioner, but I often find myself passing that one up as well and only going as far up as the flat armor pen in that tree, with stuff like crit damage and lifesteal. (crit damage, once you get more than 15% crit, is more added autoattack DPS than havoc)
imo havoc only exists because an AP hero in the offense tree would otherwise have to put points into AD masteries - which is something i'd do anyway because I think havoc is just that shit
I watched alot of doublelift lately, and I've since adopted a similar style.
Masteries: 21/9/0, the extra health from defense. Havoc vs lifesteal is debatable, I prefer havoc and executioner.
Flat AD quints and reds, for farming. Armor MR seals and glyphs to hopefully survive burst. This also means you start boots pots in almost every lane. For Vayne 2 Dorans, zerker greaves into BT. The reason to get BT over IE on Vayne is that due to her short range she's more vulnerable, so you need more sustain.
I used to max w and build fast seal/pd, but lately I've been rushing bf and maxing q. I think both works, but the extra mobility from maxing q is actually really good.
Remember that your goal in lane is to farm. Harass a bit if you can, get a kill if you can but never never miss cs. If you beat their carry to bf you can dominate and with a good team take advantage of early baron fight.
Cleanse flash best summoners on most carries atm. Cleanse is strong in lane and super strong in team fights. There are so many champions that can close the gap and fuck you up.
On a more general note, Caitlyn counters most other ad carries in lane. You have to be a really good caitlyn to take advantage of it though, especially when game transitions into tf. She doesn't have the sick damage that vayne has, or the mobility of trist. I've been playing lots of cait lately too, and she's fun but really hard to maximise your damage.
Last edited by Serious Bob; December 10 2011 at 08:36:46 AM.
Every time I play AD carry, I always get three-shotted in team fights and and do absolutely nothing of any value. I've tried Vayne, Ashe, Graves, and Cait, and they all feel retardedly squishy to me. I'm great in lane phase, but I hit like level 12 and a couple final-build items, and then I'm only useful for anything more than a speed bump if the enemy team is retarded or I'm backdooring towers. How do I fix this?
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Originally Posted by Wall
Positioning, cleanse and flash. Try to ask your team to protect you aswell. Once an AD carry has some items they do the most damage in game (hence why you pick them). Thus you win teamfight by keeping them alive. Many players want to have focus targets and stuff, but you can win teamfights by just protecting your carry and letting them deal damage. If the enemy team full on dives your carry, then your team should just protect the carry and kill the divers. What often happens though is your bruisers will counterdive and it's a clusterfuck, with you left alone vs a irelia/trynd/cho whatever and you will lose that fight if they can hug you.
Protect carry, kill whatever is close to carry, carry lives fight and wins game.
v0v 1.5% also adds up to a lot in the long run. That's the thing with masteries they don't do much in one hit but they add up over an entire game to do a lot.
6 armour is also bugger all but every tank will take it even though he'll probably end up with 200+ armour by the end of a match. Assuming 200 armour those 3 points in masteries only gave you 3% more.
Yep, this.
i still think ashe is the best AD carry in game
I...agree with Edna? At least for the level of play I'm at, her arrow initiation is enough to win games. Wait for one of their carries to wander off, gank, win.
she really needs to lane with sona and play SUPER passive/safe early game, even if it means getting behind a bit on cs. then at lvl 6 youre a double stun lane, call the jungler in and get a certain kill every time your ults are up.
of course then later on if you can land good arrows it makes all the difference and can turn games. thing is most people dont want to play that passively, at least in low elo. everyone tries to make the pro plays and ashe doesnt work like that
At lvl 1 you can actually just dominate a lane with Ashe and Sona.
Ashe 100% crit and Sona Power Cord set to Q will hit the enemy carry for over half their health and put you in complete control of the lane for the first few levels. This is pretty much what you have to do with Ashe since in a straight up lane Ashe can't compete.
Ashe is the only AD carry I'm any good with so I'd probably agree. In low level crappy games it's hard to find safe farm after the lanes break down (which can happen very early) and her E and W let you get some opportunistic far quickly and safely.
Also that arrow is one of the most fun skills in the whole game.
the thing is that some of those masteries actually DO do a lot early game. on a hero with low base armor (let's say ashe for example) that 6 armor is more than 50% more on top of the base. all champs start with 30 base MR, so +6 isn't as much but it's still a comfortable +20%v0v 1.5% also adds up to a lot in the long run. That's the thing with masteries they don't do much in one hit but they add up over an entire game to do a lot.
6 armour is also bugger all but every tank will take it even though he'll probably end up with 200+ armour by the end of a match. Assuming 200 armour those 3 points in masteries only gave you 3% more.
imo masteries aren't for lategame (except for certain specific ones like movespeed and crit dmg), they're to buff whatever's weak about your early game.
Fair point. The main issue is that they are % based, if they are enough of a percentage to be noticable early game (say 10% or something) they'd be stupid op late game, and conversly as they are where they do a bit late game they don't do much at all at the start.the thing is that some of those masteries actually DO do a lot early game. on a hero with low base armor (let's say ashe for example) that 6 armor is more than 50% more on top of the base. all champs start with 30 base MR, so +6 isn't as much but it's still a comfortable +20%v0v 1.5% also adds up to a lot in the long run. That's the thing with masteries they don't do much in one hit but they add up over an entire game to do a lot.
6 armour is also bugger all but every tank will take it even though he'll probably end up with 200+ armour by the end of a match. Assuming 200 armour those 3 points in masteries only gave you 3% more.
imo masteries aren't for lategame (except for certain specific ones like movespeed and crit dmg), they're to buff whatever's weak about your early game.
I just had a look and I don't use it on my AD page and tbh I can't see anything I'd drop for it.
Spoiler:
That's pretty much what I have, except I take 2 points in offensive mastery (for jungling) instead of executioner and go 3 in mres, 3 in armor, and 2 in hp regen
i tend to struggle with vayne when playing vs some aoe ad like graves.
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