ECM replaced and turned into resistance debuff

[Marlona Sky]

So instead of adjusting an aspect about the current ECM mechanic like duration of jam or a ships jam strength; the entire ECM mechanic is to be scrapped completely in favor of something new. My idea would be a resistance debuff.

There are some concerns I have. Like should there be specific damage debuffs or just an omni version?

Another goal is for Caldari to have two different new EW modules just like the other races. One of the reasons why ECM is completely OP is because all the skills and ship bonuses are packed into one super module.

So before I (we) dive in crunching numbers and debating hard, please take the poll.

[Raz]

At first glance, I'm pretty okay with the sound of this. I'm not sure offhand how it would scale with fleet combat sizes.

[Shin_getter]

You rape T2 and T3 ships that survive off high resists. You also seriously hurt RR chains and make also make alpha soooo much easier. It would also be 100% mandatory for any sizable gang if it have any reasonable (not blaster) range but would be rather weak in small numbers. (10% increase in damage for a 200 ship fleet is like bringing another 20 ships, 10% increase in a 5 ship fleet is just half a ship)

For a ship with 90% resists, dropping them to 80% means they lose HALF, 50%, of their tank. For a ship with 60% resists, dropping them to 50% means a 16% drop in tank, which is far less serious.

and I'd totally throw it on my paladin so I can finally kill elite angel cruisers, if it doesn't have comic base ranges. /carebear

[Celedris]

Horrible idea, especially in respect to medium/large fights (20v20+) which already revolve around logistics vs. dmg/alpha contests. All this proposed change would do is make it so that ships which get their EHP from high resists (mainly HACs & T3s) are less viable compared to canes/drakes/battleships. It also completely fucks up active tanking, as if that needed another counter.



The best solution I've seen is to change the ECM mechanics so that sensor strength additionally provides a percentage reduction to jam duration. This would also make ECM less binary and make fitting ECCM much more compelling than it already is:

10-point jammer vs. 10 sensor strength ship = 100% chance for a 20-second jam
10-point jammer vs. 20 sensor strength ship = 50% chance for a 10-second jam
10-point jammer vs. 40 sensor strength ship = 25% chance for a 5-second jam

This would also have the side effect of making ECM drones only have 1-2 second jam durations (basically just a lock break) against most ships, so you could still lock them up and kill them if there aren't too many on you.

If that went through I would want Logistics to have their sensor strength lowered down to the level of a regular T2 cruiser though, as ECM is one of the very, very few counters to logi-stacking, and pretty much every logistics already fits at least one ECCM mod as is.

[Stormscion]

other games ( wow ) have solved problems liek this by introducing diminishing returns that lead to temporal invulnerability

however i do agree that it is simple and crude solution for what is in essence bad combat desgin.

[Tyrus Tenebros]

I think adjusting the cycle time vs. effective time, or making ECM function as a lockbreaking mechanic instead of a lockout mechanic (like burst does now) is better.

Resistance debuffing would be aboslutely mandatory to bring with you very quickly, since it provides an immediate, reliable, and powerful buff to your direct damage done. The best e-War is killing your opponent's ships, so an eWar module that directly contributed to killing them would be by FAR the most used.

[Shade Millith]

The best solution I've seen is to change the ECM mechanics so that sensor strength additionally provides a percentage reduction to jam duration. This would also make ECM less binary and make fitting ECCM much more compelling than it already is:

10-point jammer vs. 10 sensor strength ship = 100% chance for a 20-second jam
10-point jammer vs. 20 sensor strength ship = 50% chance for a 10-second jam
10-point jammer vs. 40 sensor strength ship = 25% chance for a 5-second jam

This doesn't fix anything. ECM is too powerful against unECCMed ships, and too much of a deal breaker when it hits, and is random chance.

ECM is the only Ewar that can immediately render ships to the verge of uselessness. Neuts take time, TD's and RSD's can be dealt with by piloting. ECM is just too absolute.

Personally I like the idea of scrambling a ships sensors. Overview and brackets.

For example the overview might supposed to be:

Blue | 5km | Jack | Thanatos | 25m/s
Red | 20km | Evilguy | Rapier | 1340m/s

But when hit with ECM (That succeeds with a good ECM strength) it becomes scrambled, leading to:

Red | 32km | lkefad | Raptor | 72043m/s
Yellow| 59km | feafnd | Leviathan | -503m/s

The pilot can still lock, shoot and repair. However it becomes much more difficult to do so. The higher the ECM compared to ECCM strength, the more scrambled the overview/brackets becomes. No locks are broken.

It's also a boost to solo PVP. ECM would no longer be a simple death sentence.

[Mike deVoid]

No matter how you try to balance your idea, Marlona, a resist debuff is equivalent to a fleetwide damage output boost. Reminds me of ideas to make gallente links into damage buffs. The outcome would be mandatory ECM in every fleet. Unworkable.

[Marlona Sky]

Being jammed for twenty seconds would not be so bad if it only disabled turrets and launchers during that time. Not being able to lock anything and then add the fact it takes time to relock is retarded.

[CastleBravo]

Just make is so that when jammed you can still lock and fire upon anyone that has used an offensive module on you in the last 60 seconds (ie has "red-boxed" you). That way you can still be temporarily removed from the fight (unless you can reach the ECM ship that is jamming you) but as soon as someone actually fires on you then you can fire back.

Also make is so that when jammed you can not activate any remote assistance module regardless of if you have a lock or not.

Then buff ECM ships so that they can tank and jam at the same time, and nerf logistic cruiser sensor strength.

[Cortess]

Just bring it inline with the other caldari-"ewar" ... Defender Missiles. If activated, the ECM-using ship has a chance of not being able to be targeted anymore.

[Rynnik]

One of the better suggestions I recall seeing was having Jams reduce the max number of lockable targets. Have jammers work 100% of the time and have them reduce the number of locks a ship can achieve by 60% or some CCP determined number. Make it stacking penalized and the number of locks achievable ALWAYS rounds up and you have something that works fairly effectively to shut down logi and other EWAR ships, but doesn't really nerf damage dealers as much. Decent-ish scalability through conflict sizes and doesn't hurt solo at all.

ECM drones become as useless as other EWAR drones - yay?

[CastleBravo]

One of the better suggestions I recall seeing was having Jams reduce the max number of lockable targets. Have jammers work 100% of the time and have them reduce the number of locks a ship can achieve by 60% or some CCP determined number. Make it stacking penalized and the number of locks achievable ALWAYS rounds up and you have something that works fairly effectively to shut down logi and other EWAR ships, but doesn't really nerf damage dealers as much. Decent-ish scalability through conflict sizes and doesn't hurt solo at all.

ECM drones become as useless as other EWAR drones - yay?

I could live with that, but I would add another effect that makes a lock attempt have a chance to fail once the lock timer completes. Something like a 50% chance for lock attempt to fail when a bonused ECM module is active on a ship, regardless of how many ECM are stacked on it and regardless of if the jam hit or not.

My only concern is that it would do very little against small gangs being supported by a couple onerios or scimitars; what if being hit with a jam made remote assistance modules non-functional?

[Rynnik]

I could live with that, but I would add another effect that makes a lock attempt have a chance to fail once the lock timer completes. Something like a 50% chance for lock attempt to fail when a bonused ECM module is active on a ship, regardless of how many ECM are stacked on it and regardless of if the jam hit or not.

My only concern is that it would do very little against small gangs being supported by a couple onerios or scimitars; what if being hit with a jam made remote assistance modules non-functional?

Might work, but to be honest I think the chance to fail lock is what damps are for isn't it? Not an identical mechanic but having the relock be a PITA? I would be all for promoting the synergy of scan res damps with jams. The idea is to make it difficult and intensive to switch targets as you move your damage around. One concern is that it of course nerfs armour logi just that little bit harder then shield logi with the rep delay.

The whole remove remote assitance modules is interesting as well and could work, but I see it as more of an either / or thing.

[Marlona Sky]

I suggested that "reduce lockable targets" change a couple years ago, but the Falcon alt owners derailed it fast.

Anyways, I do suggest that personal repair modules add a passive +75% to the ships sensor strength and if the repair module is overloaded, the bonus applies to sensor strength as well. This would be a nice boost to solo and small fleet fights.

Tripple rep Hype/Myrm freak of nature solo boats are now a go!

[Steph]

Personally I like the idea of scrambling a ships sensors. Overview and brackets.

For example the overview might supposed to be:

Blue | 5km | Jack | Thanatos | 25m/s
Red | 20km | Evilguy | Rapier | 1340m/s

But when hit with ECM (That succeeds with a good ECM strength) it becomes scrambled, leading to:

Red | 32km | lkefad | Raptor | 72043m/s
Yellow| 59km | feafnd | Leviathan | -503m/s

The pilot can still lock, shoot and repair. However it becomes much more difficult to do so. The higher the ECM compared to ECCM strength, the more scrambled the overview/brackets becomes. No locks are broken.

It's also a boost to solo PVP. ECM would no longer be a simple death sentence.

Would be fucking awesome, but I think a lockbreak could still work with the above.

"Shit, I lost my lock! Which one do I target!?"

Would it scramble S/A/H target readouts as well? Icons of targetted objects? Rearrange the order they appear on the UI?

EDIT: Or instead of a lock break, what about a lock switch? Lose lock on current targets, automatically lock an equal number of random targets on the field? Modules would have to switch off, of course, or it'd be too much fun to fight empire wars in Jita.

[Rebelike]

Have a ccp employee outside every stasion, and ban every ecm-boat pilot. Eve would be a 200% better place for all. A shame they would have to ban half of all the active accounts witl all the falcons these days (