[PvP] Vargur

[sharptoast]

Well, all of this is true, but its still sexy.

[W0lf Crendraven]

In case you want to see your fit ( well a very similar fit) in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SIK6m-5Av8 (min 11:40 onwards)


(or https://forums.eveonline.com/default...=posts&t=90650 for the dl links)

[sharptoast]

Bawler.

[thebomby]

Just to compare it a mach with pretty much the same fitting. The mach tanks more, goes faster, deals more dps, has better range, has more drones space, aligns almost twice as fast, has more cap, has more sensor strenght, has twice the sensor resolution and has more ehp, the vargur gets a neut and a smartbomb and more cargospace!

It has one advantage over the Mach: People will engage it.

[Cue1*]

Was looking at a Marauder to PvE in as a trap. Was thinking this:

[Vargur, It's a TRAP!]

Damage Control II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II

Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Caldari Navy Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

Bastion Module I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Ammatar Navy Large EMP Smartbomb
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

Thinking it might be better with a web over the SBA and scram over longpoint.

Like this I guess:

[Vargur, Trap2]

Damage Control II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II


Stasis Webifier II
Caldari Navy Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Warp Scrambler II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800


Bastion Module I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Ammatar Navy Large EMP Smartbomb
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L


Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

[Warmenhoven]

Not much point in a 3rd RF gyro, switch one to T2 and spend the pimp money elsewhere; like a better scram for instance.

[Cue1*]

So I keep playing with this ship, it's really appealing to me. Unfortunately, I don't have Minnie BS, so all I'm really doing is making myself wish I could train skills faster. Anyway, I tweaked the fit a bit, but I'm still not certain on the highslots. Given it's got three, and I can easily do nearly anything with all three, I just can't decide what I want.

EDIT: helps if I hit paste doesn't it?

[Vargur, TRAP!]

Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
True Sansha Warp Scrambler
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

Bastion Module I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Ammatar Navy Medium EMP Smartbomb
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L

Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II

[Mizhir]

Skyflyer has had alot of success with Marauder pvp. Here is his most commong Marauder: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=21799320

And videos here: http://www.youtube.com/user/Wolfie2kaii9/videos

[Cue1*]

He's got some cool vids, although he's using it in a different way than I plan to. That said, maybe there is something to going propless. 9 seconds is plenty of time to get scrammed, and I like his idea of the dual boosters.

[Dot]

180mil for a scram but you dont want to pay the extra 60mil for a a-type booster (or the 230mil more for a x-type)?

[QuackBot]

In case you want to see your fit ( well a very similar fit) in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SIK6m-5Av8 (min 11:40 onwards)


(or https://forums.eveonline.com/default...=posts&t=90650 for the dl links)

So i've started teaching myself 3ds max and it got put back in the action.

[SardCaid]

Yeah, the X-type booster is cheap as chips for a 1 bil hull. Grab the better booster.

[Cue1*]

The X-type doesn't fit. The Gist would, but that's a bill for the booster.

[Baarhyn]

Crystal pimp vargur is beyond retarded, dual TE triple gyro gist xtype xlarge with fancy invuln, web, mwd, mjd and cap booster lets you fit 1x heavy neut 1x med neut 1x med nos

With links it goes 1500m/s before mjd, 1100 dps at 4+60 in bastion with close range ammo and it tanks 5600 dps.

All of that without overheat or drones or t2 ammo.

And it's cap stable with everything running....

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

[LordsServant]

Crystal pimp vargur is beyond retarded, dual TE triple gyro gist xtype xlarge with fancy invuln, web, mwd, mjd and cap booster lets you fit 1x heavy neut 1x med neut 1x med nos

With links it goes 1500m/s before mjd, 1100 dps at 4+60 in bastion with close range ammo and it tanks 5600 dps.

All of that without overheat or drones or t2 ammo.

And it's cap stable with everything running....

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

So uh.....

What does this have to do with a pvp vargur?

What you just described sounds like an overtanked bad pve vargur :P

Edit for bad, PVE vargur. Lederp

[Baarhyn]

Crystal pimp vargur is beyond retarded, dual TE triple gyro gist xtype xlarge with fancy invuln, web, mwd, mjd and cap booster lets you fit 1x heavy neut 1x med neut 1x med nos

With links it goes 1500m/s before mjd, 1100 dps at 4+60 in bastion with close range ammo and it tanks 5600 dps.

All of that without overheat or drones or t2 ammo.

And it's cap stable with everything running....

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

So uh.....

What does this have to do with a pvp vargur?

What you just described sounds like an overtanked bad pve vargur :P

Edit for bad, PVE vargur. Lederp

Neuts + webs with a partner sporting neuts + points.

Or you drop the invuln or the mwd for solo and fit a point instead. No-mwd you can fit dual heavy neuts.

You could drop the invuln and change one TE for a DCU.

Point is, except for massed neuts it's basically a maelstrom with a mjd, a buncha neuts, more dps, more projection and Bc speed and manoeuvrability.

It's obscenely good and it can do the maelstrom on gate thing but it can also kite shit around doing more damage than a mach with roughly the same projection and a lil' less speed.

It's by far the most versatile marauder, with same fit it tanks more than a golem and has neuts and speed and more dps.

I'm just sad it doesn't have glowing blue thingies sticking out in bastion like the other ones.

[LordsServant]

Crystal pimp vargur is beyond retarded, dual TE triple gyro gist xtype xlarge with fancy invuln, web, mwd, mjd and cap booster lets you fit 1x heavy neut 1x med neut 1x med nos

With links it goes 1500m/s before mjd, 1100 dps at 4+60 in bastion with close range ammo and it tanks 5600 dps.

All of that without overheat or drones or t2 ammo.

And it's cap stable with everything running....

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

So uh.....

What does this have to do with a pvp vargur?

What you just described sounds like an overtanked bad pve vargur :P

Edit for bad, PVE vargur. Lederp

Neuts + webs with a partner sporting neuts + points.

Or you drop the invuln or the mwd for solo and fit a point instead. No-mwd you can fit dual heavy neuts.

You could drop the invuln and change one TE for a DCU.

Point is, except for massed neuts it's basically a maelstrom with a mjd, a buncha neuts, more dps, more projection and Bc speed and manoeuvrability.

It's obscenely good and it can do the maelstrom on gate thing but it can also kite shit around doing more damage than a mach with roughly the same projection and a lil' less speed.

It's by far the most versatile marauder, with same fit it tanks more than a golem and has neuts and speed and more dps.

I'm just sad it doesn't have glowing blue thingies sticking out in bastion like the other ones.

Makes more sense. I saw the original post and you didn't talk about fitting a point and it seemed like you were talking about pve.

Still tho, for pvp I'm not sure 5k is enough tank on one of these. :S

Interesting thought for dual purpose tho.

[Cue1*]

Neuts + webs with a partner sporting neuts + points.

Or you drop the invuln or the mwd for solo and fit a point instead. No-mwd you can fit dual heavy neuts.

You could drop the invuln and change one TE for a DCU.

Point is, except for massed neuts it's basically a maelstrom with a mjd, a buncha neuts, more dps, more projection and Bc speed and manoeuvrability.

It's obscenely good and it can do the maelstrom on gate thing but it can also kite shit around doing more damage than a mach with roughly the same projection and a lil' less speed.

It's by far the most versatile marauder, with same fit it tanks more than a golem and has neuts and speed and more dps.

I'm just sad it doesn't have glowing blue thingies sticking out in bastion like the other ones.

Go check out the videos and killmails of people using Marauders in PvP. Most of them are propless, and those that do have a prop, are running an MJD solely for it's GTFO ability. This isn't by mistake, or because they're stupid, it's because the idea of moving around the field then Bastioning up is more wishful thinking that the scrips in porn. Tournament play not withstanding, for obvious reasons. The power of a Marauder is based almost entirely off of it's Bastion module, use it to its best advantage.

[Baarhyn]

Neuts + webs with a partner sporting neuts + points.

Or you drop the invuln or the mwd for solo and fit a point instead. No-mwd you can fit dual heavy neuts.

You could drop the invuln and change one TE for a DCU.

Point is, except for massed neuts it's basically a maelstrom with a mjd, a buncha neuts, more dps, more projection and Bc speed and manoeuvrability.

It's obscenely good and it can do the maelstrom on gate thing but it can also kite shit around doing more damage than a mach with roughly the same projection and a lil' less speed.

It's by far the most versatile marauder, with same fit it tanks more than a golem and has neuts and speed and more dps.

I'm just sad it doesn't have glowing blue thingies sticking out in bastion like the other ones.

Go check out the videos and killmails of people using Marauders in PvP. Most of them are propless, and those that do have a prop, are running an MJD solely for it's GTFO ability. This isn't by mistake, or because they're stupid, it's because the idea of moving around the field then Bastioning up is more wishful thinking that the scrips in porn. Tournament play not withstanding, for obvious reasons. The power of a Marauder is based almost entirely off of it's Bastion module, use it to its best advantage.

If you go full propless you get a second cap booster and a point.

Or more resist.

So you're giving up gtfo if no scram AND 1500m/s before overheat for more tank ( doesn't need more tank) or more neut resistance ( it's already real resistant and an arma/bhaal will cap you with dual injectors anyway).

I mean in a fit like this it tanks like a maelstrom, moves like a mach, dps more than a mach, neuts more than a mach and has an mjd. It means that you can kite anything with bonused heavy neuts out of bastion and facefuck anything that doesn't have bonused heavy neuts in bastion.

I'll post some eft screenshots when I get back home, this is the penultimate solo battleship/battlecruiser.

Edit: heck, it's a better shield mach without any of the already limited downsides. It does have a tad less speed but that's it.

[Cue1*]

Neuts + webs with a partner sporting neuts + points.

Or you drop the invuln or the mwd for solo and fit a point instead. No-mwd you can fit dual heavy neuts.

You could drop the invuln and change one TE for a DCU.

Point is, except for massed neuts it's basically a maelstrom with a mjd, a buncha neuts, more dps, more projection and Bc speed and manoeuvrability.

It's obscenely good and it can do the maelstrom on gate thing but it can also kite shit around doing more damage than a mach with roughly the same projection and a lil' less speed.

It's by far the most versatile marauder, with same fit it tanks more than a golem and has neuts and speed and more dps.

I'm just sad it doesn't have glowing blue thingies sticking out in bastion like the other ones.

Go check out the videos and killmails of people using Marauders in PvP. Most of them are propless, and those that do have a prop, are running an MJD solely for it's GTFO ability. This isn't by mistake, or because they're stupid, it's because the idea of moving around the field then Bastioning up is more wishful thinking that the scrips in porn. Tournament play not withstanding, for obvious reasons. The power of a Marauder is based almost entirely off of it's Bastion module, use it to its best advantage.

If you go full propless you get a second cap booster and a point.

Or more resist.

So you're giving up gtfo if no scram AND 1500m/s before overheat for more tank ( doesn't need more tank) or more neut resistance ( it's already real resistant and an arma/bhaal will cap you with dual injectors anyway).

I mean in a fit like this it tanks like a maelstrom, moves like a mach, dps more than a mach, neuts more than a mach and has an mjd. It means that you can kite anything with bonused heavy neuts out of bastion and facefuck anything that doesn't have bonused heavy neuts in bastion.

I'll post some eft screenshots when I get back home, this is the penultimate solo battleship/battlecruiser.

Edit: heck, it's a better shield mach without any of the already limited downsides. It does have a tad less speed but that's it.

[Vargur, baar's]

Tracking Enhancer II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II

Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Gist X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Large Micro Jump Drive
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800

Bastion Module I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L

Large Polycarbon Engine Housing II
Large Polycarbon Engine Housing II

Warrior II x5

You didn't specify rigs, but it's the only way I could get the speed numbers up to what you were talking about. The only way I could make it cap stable was running the nos, heating the booster, and having the X-Type MWD. It's not cap stable running the neuts in any config I could find.

First, don't compare a linked and implanted ship to a unlinked, unimplanted ship. That's Wolf level of retarded. A linked, crystaled T2 fit Cyclone will tank more than a unlinked unimplanted Bastioned Vargur. This isn't complicated, if you've got a collection of force multipliers, ships get much better. Compare ships without links or implants on both.

Machariel:
You are actually significantly slower than a Mach, 1.1k/1.6k vs 1.7k/2.5k. You don't do 1k DPS, you do 900, and it's not hitting at 60k, it's hitting at 50k; you have the exact same projection as the Mach. If you plan to be mobile, you can't consider your projection while in bastion. Mach actually does the 1k DPS, and has a bigger drone bay to boot. The only advantage in DPS you have over the Mach is slightly better tracking. You barely out tank a similarly pimped Mach, getting only 100 or so DPS more tank.

Maelstrom:
You tank 225 DPS than the Mael does when you're out of Bastion, 800 or so more when you go into Bastion. The Vargur does project it's DPS better, but both hulls do the same DPS. Dropping into Bastion obviously skyrockets your tank, but let's be fair here, you're comparing a 300m ISK fit to a 4b ISK fit, it damned well be better in some way.

The Vargur is a great ship, don't get me wrong, but it's not a end all do all hull. The Machariel thing is dumb, because the reason the Mach is such a good ship is it's speed, which the Vargur just doesn't have. If you want to immitate the Mach onto some other hull, the Typhoon FI is a better option than the Vargur.

(EDIT: changed these numbers as I realized I still had bluepill in on the Vargur)