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Thread: Fixing Bounty Hunting (and smuggling?)

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    I am the 99.99998% Tyrus Tenebros's Avatar
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    Fixing Bounty Hunting (and smuggling?)



    It's been so long since anybody has attempted to fix bounty hunting: I think everybody has simply assumed that the issue is dead.

    NO LONGER!! With the supposed focus on Eve again, perhaps crime and punishment deserve a second look. While there is no system that is completely immune to exploiting, changing the bounty system to a contract basis rather than a generic basis should reduce the ability of players to snag their own bounties

    The Basics (aka TLDR version)
    • Purchasable Kill rights - Ship and Pod - Players can create bounty contracts for any player with a negative security status, or that they have gained killrights on. The people who accept the contract gain standard killrights to the target. (not transferred killrights, it generates new killrights)
    • Multiple acceptances per contract - To encourage both competition and cooperation (particularly for pod contracts) the contract can be undertaken by multiple people simultaneously, decided by the player making the contract
    • Bounty hunters cannot go below -2 ... CONCORD does not want outlaws hunting outlaws. This also creates immersion in a "cops and robbers" sense. It also (mildly) restricts the ability of pirates to take their own bounties. See below for the counterpart "assassination contract" with slightly different rules.
    • Tracked bounty kills - Player character sheet statistic for amount of bounty claimed and number of successful hunts



    By Default, a player can create 0 hunts which are acceptable by up to 2 people simultaneously*. By default a player cannot accept any hunts. Three new skills will be introduced, one which will allow you to create bounty contracts, one which allows you to create them for more players at a single time, and one which allows you to accept multiple bounty hunts simultaneously. This last skill is designed to give the bounty hunter an investment in SP for the "profession".

    *Any player can ADD both bounty and simultaneous acceptances to existing contracts, there's no need to train skills to simply add to a criminal's bounty, see below for details



    New Skills
    Bounty Contracting (1x)
    Ability to navigate the legal framework of CONCORD in order to register bounty contracts. +2 active bounty contracts per level trained

    Explanation: Needing a skill and limiting the number of active bounties each player can have mildly restricts the ability to spam contracts

    Bounty Contract Management (2x)
    Each level of bounty management allows you to add 2 simultaneous acceptances to each contract (to a maximum of 12)

    Explanation: Making this a skill is important for the same reason as above. People who are interested in crime and punishment will find it trivial to get to IV. Players must invest at least marginally in order to spam kill rights

    Bounty Hunting (3x)
    Registers your interest in bounty hunting with CONCORD. Each level of skill increases maximum active bounty hunts by +2.

    Explanation: Requires minimal investment and provides "ownership" of the profession to the player. A 3x multiplier is low enough to be relatively easy to train, but high enough that only people who want to "be a bounty hunter" will train it to V, making it a point of pride for people who want to be identified as bounty hunters.




    Wall of text version
    Creating a contract - Buying kill rights
    A bounty contract is an extension of the existing contract system. Any player with a security status below -2 (or below 0?) is subject to having a bounty contract taken out on them. A contract will have the following features:
    • Target - The name of the player
    • Bounty Hunters requested - This is the number of players that can participate in the hunt, it goes down as individuals accept the contract
    • Bounty Available - The TOTAL payout, divided amongst players who accepted the contract AND are on the killmail. (that is, people who did not accept the contract do not count, and people who accepted but did not succeed in being in on the kill do not count)
    • Pod Kill Bounty - This option triggers an additional registration fee (moar isk sink, also reduces podkill contract spam). Additional bounty provided on podkill is provided here. Bounty Hunts need not require a podkill.


    Creating a contract allows bounty hunters to purchase the right to kill the target player. No pre-existing killrights are required, only that the target has a security status below zero or you have otherwise gained killrights to the target, and the accepting player has a status above -2. Noobships and shuttles do not count towards shipkill contracts, this prevents the target from erasing the contract by losing a shuttle. Contracts are considered complete only if the player loses his ship to somebody who is actively hunting him for bounty. This prevents random deaths and exploitation by self-killing to some extent.

    EDIT: Raised the limit to ANY negative security status and added an exception for anybody who you have killrights on.

    Adding to a contract
    If a player wishes to create a bounty hunt for a player with an existing bounty hunt, he can instead add to the number of requested bounty hunters, and add to the bounty. He may also choose to add pod bounty to kills that currently do not have them. Note that this option does not require training any skills as by default you can add 2 more hunter requests to a contract and add bounty.


    No insurance payout for ships lost to bounty actions
    Criminality ceases to be rewarded by the insurance company


    Discussion - Restriction to shipclass or total ISK loss - Obsoleted by ability to use ingame loss values
    Bounty is awarded by payout based on the loss value of the ship/pod. Payout is split between pilots appearing on the mail who are part of the bounty hunt (that is, they accepted the contract).

    Discussion - Bounty awarded in part from the target's wallet
    To prevent exploitation and add burden to criminals and pirates, a successful bounty hunt kill will remove <some amount> of ISK from the targets wallet. This could be RP'd as some sort of CONCORD legal fees. The deducted ISK could either be added to the killer's wallet (final blow bonus perhaps?) or treated as an ISK sink.

    Discussion - Bribing officials to remove bounty
    Target players can bribe CONCORD by an amount equal to the bounty contract to remove killrights. Bounty total and the fine will be treated as an ISK sink. This function must have a material effect on player time AND wallet to be viable or else all bounties will be simply be bribed off. Limiting the locations where one can make a bribe (perhaps force them to travel to a CONCORD or DED Station?) and perhaps graduating the effects of bribes (full price only removes still-open hunt slots, pay double the anticipated bounty and remove the contract entirely, for example). Alternatively, if the faction war expansion is used, force pirates to hack a DED control module to gain access to the bounty system. Payments might be at a 2:1 basis if this is the case, since searching for, hacking, and holding the site will be difficult in itself.




    EDIT: Added smuggling, and assassination to OP

    SMUGGLING
    Customs' effectiveness will be drastically reduced. Players can change their cargo status from "open" to "concealed" in stations. "concealed" cargo will not be found by NPCs, however, A customs officer scanning smuggled cargo will incur a slight drop in faction standings. CONCORD will reward any player who discovers another player smuggling illegal items via ship scan. Player ship scanners will still be able to penetrate "concealed" status cargo on a relatively high chance basis. A cargo scan (player to player) which shows contraband will cause the faction navy to engage in their typical smuggling interdiction pattern, and the player will receive a standings increase and security status boost, and kill rights to the smuggler. Refusing to give up the illegal goods will cause the smuggler to become a flashy enemy of the faction and other players for 15 minutes. The player can dock, run, fight, etc. to get around this as usual. Two skills will be introduced, one which increases the concealment rating of your smuggled cargo, and one which increases a scanner's chance of penetrating the concealment. This way a very "skillful" smuggler against a "novice" antipirate will still have a good success ratio. Introducing modules which increase concealment rating, and differentiating the meta-levels of ship scanners by success ratio will increase the use of named scanners as well. Obviously the smuggling module will itself by illegal as well.

    To make this more interesting than simply drug running, some items will become regionally taxed. Regional gates will now have tax officers, who will act as current customs agents do (high rate of scan success). Goods deemed to be imports (generally, any item of the "opposing" faction, e.g. minmatar and gallente weapons in to amarr space) will be subject to a tax of roughly 3-5% of "base price" on jump. The mechanics of tax evasion and discovery will work identically to drug smuggling. Discussion: There's probably some better ways to come up with reasons to smuggle stuff. This could be up-to-and-including the introduction of new items (T3 modules or items which influence DUST 514) which are illegal on introduction due to, say, being illegal involvement in planetside war or too dangerous and experimental for approval in empire space. This will minimize the disruption suggestions such as new taxes on existing goods would have.


    Assassination (pirate -> antipirate bountyhunting)
    How about increasing the "cops and robbers" sub game by allowing criminals to create contracts referred to as "assassinations"? This would function identically to bounty hunting with the following differences:

    1) Players on an assassination contract will be identified and marked as outlaws by faction navies unless they travel in concealed mode as described above for smuggling. Players who successfully scan assassins identify them as such and make them temporary enemies to players and the system-controlling faction for a standard aggression timer. The player may be rewarded as well.
    2) Attempting to assassinate makes you flashy to all players as if you had GCC in low-sec, i.e. CONCORD doesn't show up and faction navies will not interfere (possibly gate guns will still automatically open fire though?). Additionally, players get the option to "tune in to the police band" and get pop-ups of "assassination in progress" with an option to warp to the originating distress call. This will drastically decrease the problem of suicide ganking in mission hubs given a few white-hat types.
    3) Players who have completed an assassination contract in the last 24 hours can be targeted for a bounty hunt regardless of security status. Furthermore, the number of players eligible to accept the contract is doubled to reflect CONCORD supporting the assassin being brought to justice.
    4) While you are the target of an active assassination contract you AND YOUR WHOLE CORP will have killrights on the assassins. This essentially allows for a miniature war-dec, and allows for White Knight players to band up in Motsu to defend rich carebears. (it also allows for extortion and "protection money" by convincing people to be part of a corp of people who will not be the target of assassinations in exchange for tax money)
    5) Assassination contracts can only originate and be accepted within low security non-empire stations (perhaps nominate a particular corporation from each faction with a good lowsec presence for this purpose) and NPC 0.0
    Last edited by Tyrus Tenebros; October 1 2012 at 03:46:09 AM.
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  2. #2
    Donor Mike deVoid's Avatar
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    I've only read a couple of bounty hunting ideas before, but I kinda like this one. I guess once a char has an open bounty contract on them you can see it from their info, or on overview/local? That way can quickly snatch up contract if you see them, and also is a way to add to their bounty contract without having to attempt to make one and then have it fail first.
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  3. #3
    I am the 99.99998% Tyrus Tenebros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike deVoid View Post
    I've only read a couple of bounty hunting ideas before, but I kinda like this one. I guess once a char has an open bounty contract on them you can see it from their info, or on overview/local? That way can quickly snatch up contract if you see them, and also is a way to add to their bounty contract without having to attempt to make one and then have it fail first.
    I believe there's already a method to display people with active bounties in local (shows up as a black skull or something?), so yes. Bounty would continue to display as it does now too as a point of pride for pirates.
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    Not being able to make bounties for targets above -2.0 is kind of boring. The people below -2 are generally going to be -5 as well, and located in lowsec where killrights aren't needed anyway. Any bounty as isk-incentive to hunt them will just be ignored if small or collected by alts if large.

    So if low sec status is not a requirement for being a target, then you can:
    1. Locate carebear in shiny ship
    2. Create bounty contract with alt for 1 isk
    3. Accept contract
    4. Kill carebar, collect X-type

    To prevent this abuse, there needs to be a 24-hour period before a bounty contract goes live (like wardecs), ample notifications sent to the target, and the target should be able to bribe his way out of the contract for the same price as the contract (and get 7-days bounty contract immunity for doing so).
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  5. #5
    I am the 99.99998% Tyrus Tenebros's Avatar
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    deleted stuff I compounded in to the OP.

    To prevent this abuse, there needs to be a 24-hour period before a bounty contract goes live (like wardecs), ample notifications sent to the target, and the target should be able to bribe his way out of the contract for the same price as the contract (and get 7-days bounty contract immunity for doing so).
    Agreed that there must be a notification period of some sort.
    Last edited by Tyrus Tenebros; November 28 2011 at 12:29:02 AM.
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    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrack View Post
    the target should be able to bribe his way out of the contract for the same price as the contract (and get 7-days bounty contract immunity for doing so).
    Obv, both the bounty fee and bribe will go to concord and be lost in that case.
    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

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    I am the 99.99998% Tyrus Tenebros's Avatar
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    EDIT - Everything in this post is now in the OP
    Last edited by Tyrus Tenebros; November 28 2011 at 12:32:43 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrack View Post
    To prevent this abuse, there needs to be a 24-hour period before a bounty contract goes live (like wardecs), ample notifications sent to the target, and the target should be able to bribe his way out of the contract for the same price as the contract (and get 7-days bounty contract immunity for doing so).
    1. Create minimum ISK contract by alt.
    2. Bribe out of it.
    3. Enjoy 7-day bounty immunity.
    4. Repeat.
    5. Whine on forum about stupid mechanics.

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    what about corps that would like to be bounty hunters? maybe add a slot or two for whole corps to get into the hunt (as an option at higher price level)

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    I am the 99.99998% Tyrus Tenebros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mona View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrack View Post
    To prevent this abuse, there needs to be a 24-hour period before a bounty contract goes live (like wardecs), ample notifications sent to the target, and the target should be able to bribe his way out of the contract for the same price as the contract (and get 7-days bounty contract immunity for doing so).
    1. Create minimum ISK contract by alt.
    2. Bribe out of it.
    3. Enjoy 7-day bounty immunity.
    4. Repeat.
    5. Whine on forum about stupid mechanics.
    Fix: Instead, scale price to place a new bounty based on the bribe. E.g. if you pay a substantial amount, there is a substantially raised fee to place another bounty, if you pay minimum the fee does not increase. This increased fee decays exponentially over time.
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    Wrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mona View Post
    1. Create minimum ISK contract by alt.
    2. Bribe out of it.
    3. Enjoy 7-day bounty immunity.
    4. Repeat.
    5. Whine on forum about stupid mechanics.
    Hmm, designing unabusable systems is hard. Maybe that's why wardecs and bounties are still terrible systems.

    1. Create minimum ISK contract by alt.
    2. Bribe out of it.
    3. Enjoy 7-day immunity to bounties, except those with a value greater than what you bribed your way out of

    Or something
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrack View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mona View Post
    1. Create minimum ISK contract by alt.
    2. Bribe out of it.
    3. Enjoy 7-day bounty immunity.
    4. Repeat.
    5. Whine on forum about stupid mechanics.
    Hmm, designing unabusable systems is hard. Maybe that's why wardecs and bounties are still terrible systems.

    1. Create minimum ISK contract by alt.
    2. Bribe out of it.
    3. Enjoy 7-day immunity to bounties, except those with a value greater than what you bribed your way out of

    Or something
    1. Place bounty on griefing target for X Isk
    2. Carebear bribes their way out of it
    3. Place bounty on carebear for X+1 Isk
    4. Carebear quits game out of frustration

  13. #13
    I am the 99.99998% Tyrus Tenebros's Avatar
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    Or don't allow simple bounties on non-negative players and use the significantly more restrictive rules for assassination I outlined above
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  14. #14
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    Some good ideas in there Tyrus, I like it.

    Bounty Hunting is a huge opportunity for EVE Small PvP, and really should be the focus of an Expansion itself (maybe in combination with a Lowsec and Faction Warfare Update?).

    Iteration on all three would be good, but I like your ideas.

  15. #15
    I am the 99.99998% Tyrus Tenebros's Avatar
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    Bumping this because people keep talking about it in the booster thread.
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    Finally found it!
    Cowboy Bebop here I jizz.[Done]

    Hope you added:
    - that Locator agents will service official Bounty Hunters free of charge, x times per day, per BountyHead. And one of them is RT updates on your Map.
    That way you can track 4 targets nearby systems, but have realtime feed as one guy travels to a DED station to bribe his contract off.

    -Criminals who keep they high bounties will be on billboards weekly, name and face. But they also have to be active more than 10 mins a day or something.

    -Criminals will have some financial advantages in Lowsec[it needs love so badly, keeps more baddies out of Nullsec, keeps goodies going into Lowsec]

    -Criminals can attack all Bounty Hunters' SHIPS on his[ALL in Local?] contracts, no penalties other than dock agg/gate agg.[Assassinations get the ones in Highsec] BHs will have neither. Goodies in the wrong area, will get slaughtered by cartels.

    -Bounty Hunters will also have an icon in Local and Overview.

    -Clients of BountyHunter Contracts can rate them on execution time/satisfaction?

    -Self-destruct will void insurance.[I can see this being abused...more...]


    Comments so far:

    Discussion - Restriction to shipclass or total ISK loss---ROCK HARD!

    Discussion - Bounty awarded in part from the target's wallet---RLtrollface, first time ever...if they have no ISK, negative wallet time!

    "concealed" cargo will not be found by NPCs, however, A customs officer scanning smuggled cargo will incur a slight drop in faction standings. ---what?? Don't we want some routes, perma scanned, or is this leniency so that booster supply is not interrupted, how popular will boosters be if CCP does not up supply drastically?

    Obviously the smuggling module will itself by illegal as well.---typo

    2) Attempting to assassinate makes you flashy to all players as if you had GCC in low-sec, i.e. CONCORD doesn't show up and faction navies will not interfere (possibly gate guns will still automatically open fire though?). Additionally, players get the option to "tune in to the police band" and get pop-ups of "assassination in progress" with an option to warp to the originating distress call. This will drastically decrease the problem of suicide ganking in mission hubs given a few white-hat types.---GCC in highsec on a gate...Won't whiteknights still suicide on your ship?
    That option is for Bounty Hunters right?

    4) While you are the target of an active assassination contract you AND YOUR WHOLE CORP will have killrights on the assassins.---'discovered assassins', I presume, but their WHOLE Corp, even if they did not accept contract?

    Excellent work, lots of coding, but looks like resub material.



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    Last edited by Lusulpher; November 28 2011 at 01:14:29 AM.
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  17. #17
    I am the 99.99998% Tyrus Tenebros's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Lusulpher;298247]
    - that Locator agents will service official Bounty Hunters free of charge, x times per day, per BountyHead. And one of them is RT updates on your Map. That way you can track 4 targets nearby systems, but have realtime feed as one guy travels to a DED station to bribe his contract off.
    Hm, perhaps some sort of remote locator agent service for registered BHs. For the remote stuff I'd actually say charge a bit more than usual, as an ISK sink, and have it only available to people who have Bounty hunting IV or V. Alternatively, allow players to use a locator agent to track time logged in / logged out by a player, say, regular 45m updates for 48h or something. Again, make this ability restricted to people actively assigned to a bounty hunt. This will give them an activity graph and is the sort of thing I'd expect a "real life in eve" BH to do.

    -Criminals who keep they high bounties will be on billboards weekly, name and face. But they also have to be active more than 10 mins a day or something.
    Sure, just as successful Bounty Hunters will be identified. I like the idea of making a certain amount of playtime a requirement. That would at the least kick off people who just don't play anymore. Alternatively, allow the player to sort / filter by activity.

    -Criminals will have some financial advantages in Lowsec[it needs love so badly, keeps more baddies out of Nullsec, keeps goodies going into Lowsec]
    I'm thinking of working this in to a broader expansion that somehow gives economic benefit. I'm writing up an "expansion idea" thread for Eve: Judgement. An expansion focused on the changes in this thread and an "iteration" on faction warfare which will allow players to support DED or the pirate factions.

    -Criminals can attack all bounty Hunters on his[ALL in Local?] contracts, no penalties other than dock agg/gate agg. Even in Highsec. BHs will have neither. Goodies in the wrong area, will get slaughtered by cartels.
    I'm not sure i agree with this. The BH will have killrights to the target so that's no problem, but I don't agree that we should allow the target to "counter hunt" the bounty hunters. Check the "assassination" idea for a way around this.

    -Bounty Hunters will also have an icon in Local and Overview.
    Bounty claims will be publicly recorded. Again being a criminal should be "harder" than being a "good guy", based on the fact that the Police are so powerful ingame (CONCORD). Make them do research to watch out for good Bounty Hunters. (They will be NOTIFIED that they are being hunted by specific pilots via evemail notifications, but it's up to them to set standings)

    -Clients of BountyHunters can rate them on execution time/satisfaction?
    I don't see why not but this is definitely a "nice to have" not a "need to have"
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  18. #18
    Gibberish Generator Lusulpher's Avatar
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    The RealTime session updates should cost more. The current 45min stuff is like warmer/colder guesswork, AND takes too long to help, before they log off, AND needs 1 player in a MISSIONHUB station. Sooo bads.
    Have a skill reduce the Map update interval for the data and presto, better bountyhunting at lvlV.[Specialization good, actual utility better]

    But the logged on activity graph should be freebie, it's a tool of the trade.
    The daily update on the other targets should show a dot-by-dot line on your Map as a filter, System/Station activity for the entire 24hrs/ last week.
    That should point out the busy bees from the lame ducks.[Stalking is gameplay]

    I was thinking Criminals get better standings gains with NPCs and no reduction with Empires. So they will stay near NPC Lowsec. Make drugs, faction LP, make combat implants, camp gates. Get rich on piracy/smuggling. Anything besides pure ISK bonus.

    Updated my post to reflect assassination. But CONCORD can let them slug it out if it took BountyHunting as a wardec. The Baddies gets satisfaction of blind violence. The Goodies get training. And they signed up for the violence too. If they have a problem they can team-up for no bounty as they FW it out in Jita.
    But FW is much unloved...this is not a necessary feature until Baddies are too rare.[incentive for casual-playing assholes to become criminals] Smuggling income for Goodies might make it redundant, have to see TQ activity.

    In Highsec, that BH icon will be a symbol of fear for Baddies. It probably should only be visible there, stops them from staying docked in Lowsec. Keeping Criminals on their toes is part of the contract.
    Also smugglers have to use gates, and the icon will let them know when it's relatively clear in Jita.[if they even need Jita]

    EvE: Judgement.
    Paging CSM.
    Last edited by Lusulpher; November 28 2011 at 01:38:14 AM.
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  19. #19
    I am the 99.99998% Tyrus Tenebros's Avatar
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    RE: the GCC thing, basically I figure that it makes sense that somebody "discovered" to be on an assassination mission should become targetable and killable unless they run away, at least for a 15 minute cooldown period (though forcing them to go back to lowsec to restart the trip would be fun too). What I didn't want, however, is scanning them to produce a CONCORD or totally unwinnable response. Player interdiction + some bonus DPS from the guns if the assassins are stupid enough to get caught on the gate seemed like a sufficient compromise.

    This option would be open to anybody with a ship scanner who wants to enforce the law. On the other hand, players who sign up to serve DED (as an expansion to faction war) may get higher rewards for interdicting assassins. Or perhaps get better intel tools (for example raiding a pirate complex in lowsec allows the whiteknights to get a list of people who have accepted assassination contracts recently). But the point is assassinating should BE HARD. If it's too easy everybody with a pith-x setup would be dead in a couple of days. I want it to be very difficult for a pirate to get all the way to a mission hub and kill a target.
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  20. #20
    Gibberish Generator Lusulpher's Avatar
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    Oh, I thought assassins were only killing Goodies...you can kill ANYONE...now that's...neat.

    Yeah, let the shitstorm rain from on high.[Wish I could gamble on their success or lack thereof, ingame, y you no like emergent CCP?]
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