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Thread: [Article] "Management still don't get it" - insider says

  1. #41
    Leboe's Avatar
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    the only reason I still have an active second account, is because its more effort to unanchor the POS that the character runs, than to keep paying RL cash every 6 months. If CCP fixed POS mechanics it would lose them my money

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    While an attentive and wise ccp employee might have watched this year's drama unfolding (I think $99 dorrah and Forumgate would have been good indicators of the level of fucked-up-ness after :18 months and then wisely thought twice about doling out wads of cash that was dependent on a company whose management is eccentric to say the very least, a lot of people simply didn't follow the drama that closely, concentrated on their jobs and RL and believed the sickly sweet words coming from head office. They're now paying the price, as have many millions of other people who used to believe in trickle down economics. It is fucking sad.
    Agreeing with Xiang Jiao here... when you're practically on the other side of the planet from the drama... and your CEO is heaping a steady course of :awesome: and :stay the course, damn the customer: it's awfully easy to get complacent. Now if the employee in question was part of the Customer management team that's awfully damning, but joe average employee isn't going to be paying a ton of attention to how his company is doing.

    That's the sort of thing management tends to do, but grunts on the floor don't typically spent time on it until after the first wave o' layoffs.

    Betcha money folks will be paying a LOT more attention if there's threats of a second wave in December though.

  3. #43
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    Yeah, I assume there was a fairly constant amount of :awesome: coming out of head office, right until the day Ginger rocked up at the door to start letting people go.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobgainsfield View Post
    Betcha money folks will be paying a LOT more attention if there's threats of a second wave in December though.
    A second layoff so soon means that the first cut was insufficiently planned.

    Also, a 20% cut is fairly serious and should have removed all* the fat already.















    * i.e. everyone that can be removed, politically speaking.
    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

    "You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."


  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    - Higher ups slagging off the players internally, blaming them for not seeing the :awesome:
    Fuck, if the media is finally at the point where they can call a spade a spade, i.e. see that Incarna/Nex was a very badly done moneygrab, you would think that the whale catchers in Reykjavik would finally be getting it too.
    To be fair, the author of this article has been playing the game since early 2004, and has never really hidden his opinions on this particular issue, so I'm not sure if he's a good thermometer of what the "gaming media" thinks. Otherwise I have no objections to what you're saying.

  6. #46

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    probably devs are in a frenzy coding mode right now.
    cm team scanned the forum for every bit of small feature requested easy to implement, and they are working overtime to do them.
    wonder if/when they announce that are working on the unlimited local save for fittings aswell .
    Last edited by fr0ggy; October 24 2011 at 06:30:48 AM.

  7. #47

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    One thing that worries me a bit is that now that they try to please everyone they'll start implementing some of the stupid ideas a lot of people have been requesting.

    Making the game much worse in the end than it is now...

  8. #48
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    I think they'll prioritise roughly based on Trebor's wishlist (exclusing all the stuff they need to do for the actual expansion) so the immediate backlog is at least partially vetted against stupidity.
    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

    "You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."


  9. #49

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    Nice write up Nyphur.

    As for CCP leadership, fuck them. I went from 3 accounts to zero. I recently re-subbed my main (1 account only) because of the shift in priorities and I wanted to hang with my buddies again.

    If they start sliding back towards "awesome" with their actions, I'm gone for good next time.
    Last edited by Serric; October 24 2011 at 10:55:28 AM.

  10. #50
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    Since Nyphur seems to be posting, I'd be curious to know just what kind of vetting process you have for this 'insider' source? It's all very dramatic and interesting, but how do you know this is the real deal?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seleene View Post
    Since Nyphur seems to be posting, I'd be curious to know just what kind of vetting process you have for this 'insider' source? It's all very dramatic and interesting, but how do you know this is the real deal?
    Let me put it this way, I've heard the exact same "it's rebellious players that do not understand out vision" internal partyline from two different people BEFORE this article was posted already. And I'm quite positive they do not normally interact with eachother.

    Therefore, like everything else that has landed in my lap upto now, I'm inclined to believe this is really how it is. Hilmar has learned nothing, and is in severe denial and still thinks "it's not really our fault".

  12. #52
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    I dont care what he thinks, as long as he does the right thing for long enough.
    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

    "You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."


  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiang Jiao View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    While an attentive and wise ccp employee might have watched this year's drama unfolding (I think $99 dorrah and Forumgate would have been good indicators of the level of fucked-up-ness after :18 months and then wisely thought twice about doling out wads of cash that was dependent on a company whose management is eccentric to say the very least, a lot of people simply didn't follow the drama that closely, concentrated on their jobs and RL and believed the sickly sweet words coming from head office. They're now paying the price, as have many millions of other people who used to believe in trickle down economics. It is fucking sad.
    I'm going to take a wild guess and say the employee worked in Atlanta. They probably had no clue about any of this drama. You figure if your little table-top RPG company gets bought out by a successful video game studio, you don't have to worry about job stability.
    I was talking to a guy I know who works for the publishing wing (basically, White Wolf That Was): apparently the folks still in that section all stayed on. Quite a few people who'd taken the chance to move on to the software side and work on nWoD have gone, including some long-serving WW luminaries.

    And yeah... they new very little of what was going on in EVE: the contract/freelancer types that do the bulk of WW's work knew even less.

  14. #54

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    To play devil's advocate here, their "vision" was not so much the problem here. It's that they never gave those "visions" the fun gameplay and implementation they needed.

    If PI had been a fun city-building mini-game, and Incarna had proper multiplayer environments with fun gameplay, the rage wouldn't have reached these levels.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Dant View Post
    To play devil's advocate here, their "vision" was not so much the problem here. It's that they never gave those "visions" the fun gameplay and implementation they needed.

    If PI had been a fun city-building mini-game, and Incarna had proper multiplayer environments with fun gameplay, the rage wouldn't have reached these levels.
    it's too late. they can't make any part of eve fun without completely removing player interest in doing anything else.

    imagine mining was suddenly awesome and everybody was doing it - mineral prices would go all Zimbabwean dollar and the economy would fall out of it's arse. far better to maintain a uniform level of tedium an and keep the equilibrium.
    Last edited by ry ry; October 24 2011 at 12:35:18 PM.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlona Sky View Post
    They just have to make sure they can see through the meta game bullshit that some of the CSM's are trying to pull. Yes the CSM is there to call bullshit on CCP, but CCP needs to be able to call bullshit on the CSM when it needs to.

    Checks and balances.
    The checks and balances are the players, not CCP. And especially the CEO can go fuck himself with a narwhale horn.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    So it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that starting from before all that, some of those layoffs were getting mortgages and setting up residence in Atlanta. First they get told everything is fine (we're hiring people), but you have to move here to work here, next thing they know things are in the deep shit, and they're laid off. It's really a rough deal some are getting here, I can see why they're upset, and my sympathies go out to them. I just hope that CCP/WW is trying to help these people beyond a spot of PR words, because: "They should have known" doesn't really cut it if you ask me ...
    Having to live nearish to where you work so that you can actually travel there is hardly an outlandish employment requirement, so of course they had to move there to work there, the same way I have to live within commutable distance of where I work in order to get to work.

    Additionally, it's a tough market out there. The world's economic system has been in crisis for over 4 years now, with Western countries particularly badly affected so they should have known that no one's job is really secure. I know my job isn't secure despite not having been given any specific information about the performance of the company I work for because I don't need that information, I can figure it out just by looking at the world around me.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlona Sky View Post
    They just have to make sure they can see through the meta game bullshit that some of the CSM's are trying to pull. Yes the CSM is there to call bullshit on CCP, but CCP needs to be able to call bullshit on the CSM when it needs to.

    Checks and balances.
    The checks and balances are the players, not CCP. And especially the CEO can go fuck himself with a narwhale horn.
    This!








    Shit! I agree with Rakshasa The Cat, things must be even worse than they seem! The end is near!

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Seleene View Post
    Since Nyphur seems to be posting, I'd be curious to know just what kind of vetting process you have for this 'insider' source? It's all very dramatic and interesting, but how do you know this is the real deal?
    It's only fair to question the validity of the story I agree, but frankly, if I look at the actual statements from the 'insider source', they basically match up with what I'm hearing as well. Two differences I noticed: I've heard a higher percentage mentioned, but I don't think many actually 'know' the exact numbers (and it depends on what they are related too), so I take everything with a sizeable grain of sand; and I haven't heard about a second round of layoffs being threatened for December, just that there's a lot of presure 'to sort things out' for the Winter expansion on the workforce. Who, it deserves to be said, are currently not just scared for their own jobs, but are working their arses off taking over from the guys that left as well as trying to get something done under a very tight deadline. Don't forget: the old release planning is out of the window, so a lot have been scrambling like mad to get some sort of planning and work done, basically from scratch.

    Seleene, you've worked there yourself, and you obviously still have some contact with some of those who still work there (or not). Are you saying that you've heard stuff that doesn't add up to basically the same story?
    Oh yeah, I've talked to more than a few folks but it's one thing to chat with some friends about it all, quite another to publish direct quotes in a news article. Don't get me wrong, I tend to lean toward Brendan doing his homework and I enjoy his column, I'm just curious is all.

    As an aside, while there is quite a lot of angst and no small share of wtf/anger/sadness amongst CCPers (any of which is evident from a variety of public sources like Facebook or Twitter), among the people I've talked too there is also a cautious sense of optimism for the future of EVE. This is due to the fact that... well, it's pretty much ALL about EVE now. With this 're-organization', Arnar (Zulu) is basically being handed a mandate to go balls to the wall on spaceships in a way that hasn't existed in the better part of the last four years. Even with the 20% layoffs, CCP is still much bigger than it was in the past when the company was solely focused on one product. (I don't really count DUST so much because Shanghai has always seemed like a closed loop.) With no Incarna or MT bullshit to distract them, and with ALL of the remaining resources devoted to EVE development? Even bad math says that the number of people / teams working on EVE is about to triple or quadruple. That equates to the potential for an Apochrypha-like expansion every 6 months.

    Personally, I want to see EVE go back to being the game that made me stop playing other games. The next CSM summit is from November 30th to Dec 2nd, all nine primary members have confirmed they are going and it's not going to be a love-in. That being said, we do want to see something good come out of all this and I believe CCP knows there is a lot riding on it.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomToon View Post
    Shit! I agree with Rakshasa The Cat, things must be even worse than they seem! The end is near!
    Reverse-trolling at its best~
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

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