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Thread: Anthology of Gender Normative Image Oppression™ NSFW | CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, SHITLORD

  1. #55601
    Venec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaztick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    There's a difference between sex (body) and gender (identity).

    Knowing the two can be different and at odds with each other is fundemental to understanding why conservatives and TERFs are just plain wrong.
    I think a lot of TERFs are aware of the fact and either don't care or take it as an affirmative that you aren't female if you're trans. TERFs would also get pretty mad if you lumped them in with conservatives in general, but I think there's very little real crossover between the two groups because they're so few in number and barely interact with each other.

    I was going somewhere with this but then I read back the thread and nobody's said anything specific yet so I have nowhere to go with it.
    From my experience with them it's that they treat sex as the definiting characteristic of one's gender (like conservatives do) so for the purposes of this dicussion I consider them the same when trans people are considered.

  2. #55602
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    Partly it's the fault of language.

    We don't have widely used, not awkward / bigoted language to describe the nuances.

    I can describe how much it's raining by degrees (mizzle, drizzle, spitting, showering, downpour, torrential) but with gender is, in common usage, still largely linguistically binary or has awkward qualifications (cis-, trans-). This leads to the push back where people go: "but your experience is not my experience but you sound like your purporting to speak for me / you're being considered like me".

    What we're talking about is the fact that Sex and Gender ARE different, but both are important and SEPARATE parts of identity. Conflating the two obscures the difference. A MTF trans-woman going "I'm a real woman!" is obscuring this difference just as much as a cis-woman going "No, you're not a real woman!". One is effectively saying "I'm gendered female", while the other says "Your sex is not female": both are only describing half the picture.

    Counting a MTF trans-women who achieved success as a man and then transitioned as effectively the same experience as a woman who fought tooth and nail against a boy's club for success is always going to cause a backlash. Pointing out that their experiences were both difficult, albeit in different ways and should both be valued is, to me, a better approach.

    This is also why you get those idiotic circumstances where doctors who are making decisions based on sex (rather than gender) get drawn into this.

  3. #55603
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    I don't think 'TERFs' are unjustified with some of their views.
    On the list of least surprising people to say this...
    Lark a bigot? Never
    Maybe read the whole quote you bigot.
    Like TERFs are to transgender people?
    But TERFs are correct...
    No they aren't
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  4. #55604
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    I don't think 'TERFs' are unjustified with some of their views.
    On the list of least surprising people to say this...
    Lark a bigot? Never
    Maybe read the whole quote you bigot.
    Like TERFs are to transgender people?
    But TERFs are correct...
    No they aren't
    Thing is... is everyone labeled a TERF actually intolerant of transgender people? It’s entirely possible to be enthusiastic about transgender rights and acceptance... while also holding a point of view that boils down to “transgender women/men aren’t really women/men because chromosomes/socialization/whatever.”

    That’s not a lack of tolerance, it’s just more liberal identity-hat politics. Everyone’s a fucking hufflepuff.

    Personally I have mixed feelings. You obviously have folks who are born intersex, or who have an unusual chromosome arrangement, etc., as well as people who have ordinary chromosomes/anatomy but, for whatever nurture/nature reason, a psyche or gender identity that is dysphoric.

    My question is “are we just now noticing the background level of gender dysphoria, the way we began to get a social awareness and acceptance of the prevalence of homosexuality 30+ years ago? Or are conditions causing an increase in gender dysphoria for some reason?”

    I can’t shake the feeling that there’s a certain type of individual with XY chromosomes and ordinary male genitals who more or less feels the urge to transition based on some perceived social favoritism towards women. Like, almost a variation on the blackpill/incel frame of mind that says “my life would be easier and I’d get more attention/affection/be more valued if I were a pretty girl than a guy.” And so rather than an internal locus of motivation based on genuine dysphoria, there is more of an extrinsic narcissistic or borderline motivation to transition. The former I see as unremarkable and unconcerning, but the latter worries me. Not because I’m intolerant, but more because it seems like there’s a potential for self-harm.

    Entirely possible I’m wrong about that, but it’s an impression I’ve gotten from a few friends who have transitioned in the past decade.

    Content:

    Last edited by Lachesis VII; December 29 2019 at 07:29:08 AM.

  5. #55605
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    It's not just the language it's the fact that so many people in the political space are acting in bad faith. Like everything else politics has poisoned the debate, and it is impossible for people to explain themselves in ways that will not either cause genuine offense or simply provide ammunition to the Culture War social media outrage mobs who are waiting eagerly to milk every possible faux pas for maximum benefit.

    The Trans community will also have to come to terms with the fact that - just like any other group of humans - their ranks will contain a number of bad actors as well as those who will use an assumed trans identity as cover for other behavior.

    Then you have the issue of what are physically biological males (never seems to be a problem with transmen) being present in women only spaces, or spaces where women take their children, places like toilets and changing rooms. A person can state that they are the opposite sex/gender without having to transition, so you can wind up with the proverbial six foot tall hairy man with a big cock - sorry, feminine penis - walking around naked in a women-only space, but no one can keep them out if they identify as a woman.

    So what do you do when a non-transitioned transwoman comes face-to-face with a rape survivor in a changeroom or tries to swim in a female only Islamic pool.

    The whole thing causes brains to melt, like Jo Swindon's who was unable to define what a woman was during a radio call-in.

    And it can make a mockery of feminist issues like the gender lifetime earnings gap - just have a few highly paid men say they are now women and the gap is gone.
    Last edited by Maximillian; December 29 2019 at 08:49:38 AM.

  6. #55606
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    It's not just the language it's the fact that so many people in the political space are acting in bad faith. Like everything else politics has poisoned the debate, and it is impossible for people to explain themselves in ways that will not either cause genuine offense or simply provide ammunition to the Culture War social media outrage mobs who are waiting eagerly to milk every possible faux pas for maximum benefit.

    The Trans community will also have to come to terms with the fact that - just like any other group of humans - their ranks will contain a number of bad actors as well as those who will use an assumed trans identity as cover for other behavior.

    Then you have the issue of what are physically biological males (never seems to be a problem with transmen) being present in women only spaces, or spaces where women take their children, places like toilets and changing rooms. A person can state that they are the opposite sex/gender without having to transition, so you can wind up with the proverbial six foot tall hairy man with a big cock - sorry, feminine penis - walking around naked in a women-only space, but no one can keep them out if they identify as a woman.

    So what do you do when a non-transitioned transwoman comes face-to-face with a rape survivor in a changeroom or tries to swim in a female only Islamic pool.

    The whole thing causes brains to melt, like Jo Swindon's who was unable to define what a woman was during a radio call-in.

    And it can make a mockery of feminist issues like the gender lifetime earnings gap - just have a few highly paid men say they are now women and the gap is gone.

    Actually its pretty simple.

    You have a penis, then you go to Menīs locker rooms and/or a neutral toilet to change (if available). If this is not ok with you there is always private and/or resort pools that are more then likely to help you out (for a price), or you just have to get a new hobby.

    See, easy.

  7. #55607

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    "TERFs" don't believe that trans women can escape male privilege and toxic male behavior patterns. Otherwise they're just as woke as anyone else.

  8. #55608
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    It's not just the language it's the fact that so many people in the political space are acting in bad faith. Like everything else politics has poisoned the debate, and it is impossible for people to explain themselves in ways that will not either cause genuine offense or simply provide ammunition to the Culture War social media outrage mobs who are waiting eagerly to milk every possible faux pas for maximum benefit.

    The Trans community will also have to come to terms with the fact that - just like any other group of humans - their ranks will contain a number of bad actors as well as those who will use an assumed trans identity as cover for other behavior.

    Then you have the issue of what are physically biological males (never seems to be a problem with transmen) being present in women only spaces, or spaces where women take their children, places like toilets and changing rooms. A person can state that they are the opposite sex/gender without having to transition, so you can wind up with the proverbial six foot tall hairy man with a big cock - sorry, feminine penis - walking around naked in a women-only space, but no one can keep them out if they identify as a woman.

    So what do you do when a non-transitioned transwoman comes face-to-face with a rape survivor in a changeroom or tries to swim in a female only Islamic pool.

    The whole thing causes brains to melt, like Jo Swindon's who was unable to define what a woman was during a radio call-in.

    And it can make a mockery of feminist issues like the gender lifetime earnings gap - just have a few highly paid men say they are now women and the gap is gone.
    idk about where you live, but "big hairy men with big cocks" is not really a regular sight in toilets here. One, there is a much higher than zero chance the perp gets shot, or at least tased, and Two, most people aren't fucking weirdo perverts.
    meh

  9. #55609
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boltorano View Post
    "TERFs" don't believe that trans women can escape male privilege and toxic male behavior patterns. Otherwise they're just as woke as anyone else.
    Yeah but somehow they invariably seem to express that belief in being every bit as shitty to trans women as any other alt-right fuckhead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  10. #55610
    NoirAvlaa's Avatar
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    Sent from my Potato using my fingers

  11. #55611


  12. #55612
    evil edna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    I don't think 'TERFs' are unjustified with some of their views.
    On the list of least surprising people to say this...
    Lark a bigot? Never
    Maybe read the whole quote you bigot.
    Like TERFs are to transgender people?
    But TERFs are correct...
    No they aren't
    Thing is... is everyone labeled a TERF actually intolerant of transgender people? It’s entirely possible to be enthusiastic about transgender rights and acceptance... while also holding a point of view that boils down to “transgender women/men aren’t really women/men because chromosomes/socialization/whatever.”

    That’s not a lack of tolerance, it’s just more liberal identity-hat politics. Everyone’s a fucking hufflepuff.

    Personally I have mixed feelings. You obviously have folks who are born intersex, or who have an unusual chromosome arrangement, etc., as well as people who have ordinary chromosomes/anatomy but, for whatever nurture/nature reason, a psyche or gender identity that is dysphoric.

    My question is “are we just now noticing the background level of gender dysphoria, the way we began to get a social awareness and acceptance of the prevalence of homosexuality 30+ years ago? Or are conditions causing an increase in gender dysphoria for some reason?”

    I can’t shake the feeling that there’s a certain type of individual with XY chromosomes and ordinary male genitals who more or less feels the urge to transition based on some perceived social favoritism towards women. Like, almost a variation on the blackpill/incel frame of mind that says “my life would be easier and I’d get more attention/affection/be more valued if I were a pretty girl than a guy.” And so rather than an internal locus of motivation based on genuine dysphoria, there is more of an extrinsic narcissistic or borderline motivation to transition. The former I see as unremarkable and unconcerning, but the latter worries me. Not because I’m intolerant, but more because it seems like there’s a potential for self-harm.

    Entirely possible I’m wrong about that, but it’s an impression I’ve gotten from a few friends who have transitioned in the past decade.

    Content:

    This whole thing is basically my feelings about the whole trans thing. However that apparently is enough to make you a bigot according to people who put their pronouns on their twitter bios

  13. #55613
    Donor Spawinte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    idk about where you live, but "big hairy men with big cocks" is not really a regular sight in toilets here.
    Just wait.

  14. #55614

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    ITT male nerds being entirely unsurprising

    TERFS are pmuch "fuck you my issue is the only one that matters" and entirely awful, they do to trans people exactly what usual conservatives do to gay people

    basically, fuck them and anyone finding excuses for them

  15. #55615
    rufuske's Avatar
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    IT'S A FUCKING IMAGE THREAD!

  16. #55616
    Movember 2012 Elriche Oshego's Avatar
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  17. #55617
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    IT'S A FUCKING IMAGE THREAD!


    On topic.

  18. #55618
    Donor Spawinte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    IT'S A FUCKING IMAGE THREAD!

  19. #55619
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Nice try, but maybe they should just pull themselves up by the bootstraps and stop expecting society to fix their problems.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  20. #55620
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    >religion as source of happiness
    miss me with that gay shit

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