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Thread: [DEVBLOG] Shiptroduction: tornado

  1. #601
    Qwert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisReaper View Post
    What's the verdict on the caldari one? Better than a drake/tengu?
    At melting stuff? Sure.
    At surviving? Nope.
    So Caldari finally have a BC who's role isn't to die last or :lolmedrails:.?

  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisReaper View Post
    What's the verdict on the caldari one? Better than a drake/tengu?
    At melting stuff? Sure.
    At surviving? Nope.
    So Caldari finally have a BC who's role isn't to die last or :lolmedrails:.?
    Med rails are no longer lol with the hybrid changes
    Будь смиренным, будь кротким, не заботься о тленном
    Власти, данной Богом, сынок, будь навеки верным...
    Я люблю Росcию, я - патриот

  3. #603
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    In my experiences, most players who claim they "manually pilot" are full of shit. They use "orbit", "Keep Distance" and "approach" just as much as the rest of us.
    In my experience people who assume people who claim to "manually pilot" are not allowed to touch orbit buttons in situations when it's obvious that that's the best way to do things are missing the point.

    Tell me you have never seen some retard start orbiting and explode because it was an idiotic time to 0 his transversal. Or have you never actually seen that? Or are you one of those guys?
    Yep, I've absolutely been "that guy" a few times. As an Inty guy, I've absolutely hit "orbit" at just the wrong time or place and gotten rightfully popped for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    You're and people you know are terrible at eve.
    Always a possabillity. I've been in CVA for many, many years, and peopel regularly say we're bad. I'm happy with the way my k/d stats look, but freely admit I make and have made a boatload of errors, many quite stupid, some costly, in my flying career.

    Me, Generally (CVA Killboard is Private):

    http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboar...stair+Cononach

    You, I assume?

    http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboar...er&name=Zeekar

    Thats a great K/D ratio tbh.
    Its not because of that that you are bad of your k/d ratio. It really does not matter. You use all the tools you have available and orbit button, keep at range and manual piloting are all that work. And if people who you know only use 2 of those options and ignore the most powerful one then by definition you are bad.
    Also gj on linking my capital main


    

  4. #604
    Frug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    With the agility, I saw the frigs get higher numbers than the cruisers so I assumed incorrectly that they improved agility.
    The agility number is completely meaningless unless you pair it with the ship's mass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  5. #605
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Also gj on linking my capital main
    Aye, figured thats what that was. Since I don't know you, don't know who else you got. Me is just me.

    In any event, I agree with your premise, "use all the tools". Guess my point was that I hear alot of folks say "manual piloting" who are using the tools of orbit/approach/etc far more than they use clicking-in-space to pilot. Maybe I've just got my terminology wrong, but I always though of "munual" as "clicking in space", and in my experience, alongside some truly exceptional Inty Pilots, the majority of time is still using the pre-set distance/orbit keys.

    No worries of course, I probably AM horribad in this crowd tbh.


  6. #606
    Jester's Avatar
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    http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2011/...h-tornado.html

    Working on a 800mm AC fit now, but I'm still working on the DPS math for it.

    EDIT: If my math is accurate, using 1400s and altered slightly to an entirely arty-suicide-gank fit, the Tornado's going to have an alpha of about 11,200.


    I present to you the very first Tornado fit ever:

    [Tornado, Welpfleet]
    Damage Control II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Tracking Enhancer II

    Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
    Warp Disruptor II
    Invulnerability Field II
    Invulnerability Field II
    Large Shield Extender II

    1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
    1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
    1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
    1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
    1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
    1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
    1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
    1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L

    Medium Ancillary Current Router I
    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


    If my math is accurate, this fit requires a 3% CPU implant, and that's all. That's no problem for me, because Ripard keeps one of those in his head at all times. If your character doesn't, then a Nanofiber Internal Structure II can go where that Tracking Enhancer is on mine.

    Again, if my math is accurate, this ship will have just shy of a 5000 point alpha, will do about 500 DPS, and will have an absolutely freakish falloff... 24+88km with EMP L... but I'm not sure I believe that. 24+55km would seem to be the minimum that I can expect out of this boat. Not too shabby at all! And there's plenty of cargo space for holding that large ammo. No drone bay at all that I can see, though.

    The downside? Dear Heaven, is this ship thin. Again, counting on my math to be accurate, I think you can expect about 35k EHP, centered on a shield of 6500-7000 HP with 60-70% resists. That's not as bad as a Recon and it's better than virtually any cruiser, but it's nothing like what we've come to expect from EVE battle cruisers. Yesterday on Kirith Kodachi's blog, I brought up the comparison of the 15 U.S. "heavy cruisers" of World War II, and I think that's going to be the most apt comparison. U.S. heavy cruisers featured very fine guns but their armor was laughably thin and their torpedo blisters were non-existent. That's about what you're going to be able to expect from these "battle cruisers".

    Why did I call this one Welpfleet? You get one guess. I'll have more to say about the Tornado and its cousins shortly.
    Last edited by Jester; October 25 2011 at 08:22:22 PM.
    Ripard Teg (among others)... what's our new alliance called again?
    I was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer, to good effect. Or at least, that's what most of EVE believes.

  7. #607
    thebomby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Also gj on linking my capital main
    Aye, figured thats what that was. Since I don't know you, don't know who else you got. Me is just me.

    In any event, I agree with your premise, "use all the tools". Guess my point was that I hear alot of folks say "manual piloting" who are using the tools of orbit/approach/etc far more than they use clicking-in-space to pilot. Maybe I've just got my terminology wrong, but I always though of "munual" as "clicking in space", and in my experience, alongside some truly exceptional Inty Pilots, the majority of time is still using the pre-set distance/orbit keys.

    No worries of course, I probably AM horribad in this crowd tbh.
    I'm much, much worse than you ever were or will be. I don't really care, tbh. I play the game because I love the battle-chess like depth of the game and the people I play it with. I'm happy when CCP isn't busy fucking things up and being arrogant dicks about it and I can just get on and shoot at things and get shot at in lots of different situations and ships.
    Будь смиренным, будь кротким, не заботься о тленном
    Власти, данной Богом, сынок, будь навеки верным...
    Я люблю Росcию, я - патриот

  8. #608

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    That's an Alphafleet fit, not a Welpfleet fit. The two are very different, although the Tornado should do both well.
    Last edited by Raivi; October 25 2011 at 08:13:26 PM.

  9. #609
    Cortess's Avatar
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    Those BC will die to 3 - 4 bombs ... or less? Stealth-buff to bombers (by introducing ships that will propably be flown and are easy to hit)?

  10. #610
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  11. #611

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    Quote Originally Posted by CastleBravo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    Re the new Tier 3s: You could conceivably put rails on the Talos and use it as a kiter with the web bonus to hold and kill inties and smaller stuff that tries to get under your guns. People in eve are pretty inventive when it comes to fitting and the hybrid buff should make for some new and interesting fits.
    Good luck tracking even a 90% webbed frig with large rails. If anything the Talos will be used to pretend to kite but with blasters to facerape the tackle that is dumb enough to chase it down.
    I think people also tend to forget, these ships don't exist in a vacuum. These guys will be monsters supported by a few brawlers (hurricanes) and some front line tacklers (loki/proteus) while they lay down the hurt. They can be easily taken down, just like stealth bombers, but a good gang has alot of power in a quick agile package, to shore up their combined arms roaming force. And the people who faster learn that monolithic fleets isnt the best option every time, will be the ones with better K/D stats in the end.
    ________________________
    --- FHC -- Rivqua -- Omega Wing ---

  12. #612

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    Out of interest how do these things stand against the new nerfed motherships? They seem to have smaller sigs than the teir 2 BCs, is that going to be enough to mitigate fighter bombers?

  13. #613

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xennith View Post
    Out of interest how do these things stand against the new nerfed motherships? They seem to have smaller sigs than the teir 2 BCs, is that going to be enough to mitigate fighter bombers?
    Well, in a proper fleet, with bonuses applied, these guys could get down to as low as 120sig radius, and a fairly decent speed (perhaps even worth AB fitting), so yeah, FBs wont touch them alot. fighters might volley them though due to their low ehp numbers.
    ________________________
    --- FHC -- Rivqua -- Omega Wing ---

  14. #614
    Jester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raivi View Post
    That's an Alphafleet fit, not a Welpfleet fit. The two are very different, although the Tornado should do both well.
    Yeah, good call. I've updated my blog post. Here's the Autocannon fit. Still needs a 3% CPU implant.

    [Tornado, Autocannon]
    Damage Control II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Tracking Enhancer II

    Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
    Warp Disruptor II
    Invulnerability Field II
    Large Shield Extender II
    Large Shield Extender II

    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L

    Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


    Basically a super-Vagabond with no drones. 775 DPS at 3+30 or so. About 40k EHP. I'm having a hard time with the speed calc. It keeps coming up 1800m/s with Acceleration Control V, and I keep not believing it... Can someone check my math? I'm having a hard time with the mass.
    Last edited by Jester; October 25 2011 at 08:54:27 PM.
    Ripard Teg (among others)... what's our new alliance called again?
    I was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer, to good effect. Or at least, that's what most of EVE believes.

  15. #615
    Lumy's Avatar
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    nitpick: put medium rigs there

  16. #616
    moomers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Can anybody match those names with contest submissions?
    the names, aside from tornado, are ccp-designated. its fair to assume that oracle will be the amarr BC 'contest winner' submission.
    fair to also assume that big-time favourites like lammergeier and aquilon will be the caldari and gallente options.

    i posted the images to the lineup some pages back, if you're curious.



    ..so far the ships look quite..fun. a good deal of balancing and, yes, iteration to be done..but ..
    Last edited by moomers; October 25 2011 at 08:55:59 PM.

  17. #617

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Raivi View Post
    That's an Alphafleet fit, not a Welpfleet fit. The two are very different, although the Tornado should do both well.
    Yeah, good call. I've updated my blog post. Here's the Autocannon fit. Still needs a 3% CPU implant.

    [Tornado, Autocannon]
    Damage Control II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Tracking Enhancer II

    Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
    Warp Disruptor II
    Invulnerability Field II
    Large Shield Extender II
    Large Shield Extender II

    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
    800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L

    Large Polycarbon Engine Housing I
    Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Large Core Defence Field Extender I


    Basically a super-Vagabond with no drones. 775 DPS at 3+30 or so. About 40k EHP. I'm having a hard time with the speed calc. It keeps coming up 1800m/s with Acceleration Control V, and I keep not believing it... Can someone check my math? I'm having a hard time with the mass.
    Ship with 229 speed (not 225) and 12.6T (not 12.5) produces 1820m/sec, So yeah ~1800 is correct.
    ________________________
    --- FHC -- Rivqua -- Omega Wing ---

  18. #618
    Jester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumy View Post
    nitpick: put medium rigs there
    Whoop, you're right. I'm using about four ships to model this thing. Fixed.
    Ripard Teg (among others)... what's our new alliance called again?
    I was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer, to good effect. Or at least, that's what most of EVE believes.

  19. #619
    XenosisReaper
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisReaper View Post
    What's the verdict on the caldari one? Better than a drake/tengu?
    At melting stuff? Sure.
    At surviving? Nope.
    So Caldari finally have a BC who's role isn't to die last or :lolmedrails:.?
    Med rails are no longer lol with the hybrid changes
    my brain is full of fuck

  20. #620
    moomers's Avatar
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    yeah. i think..i'm tentatively resubbing, if for no reason than to drown out the tide of my emo with blood of the innocents.

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