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Thread: [PVP] Loki

  1. #41
    cillisia's Avatar
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    Re: Loki

    anyone tried sig tanking these things? I noticed that you can get them down to just over 50 m3 sig with ganglinks, halo's and a standard booster

    Joined: 18 Mar 2008
    Contracts to 'Admiral Rufus' please

  2. #42
    Donor Rudolf Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Loki

    Kinda too fat and slow to sig tank proper =\

  3. #43
    Pacefalm's Avatar
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    Re: Loki

    [Loki, u mad?]
    Internal Force Field Array I
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
    Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II

    10MN Afterburner II
    Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
    Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
    Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
    Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor

    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

    Medium Projectile Burst Aerator II
    Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I

    Loki Defensive - Amplification Node
    Loki Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
    Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
    Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
    Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


    Warrior II x5
    Hornet EC-300 x5

    Barely over PG, so use with 1% PG implant or reduced PG need for guns, otherwise downgrade one gun.
    Deals 696 dps before heat, 788 heated (!).
    Omnitanks 722 burst dps before heat, 820 when heating the invul (6,5 mins), .
    822m/s before heat (1103m/s)
    Cap lasts until boosters run out (cap stable if overheating the injector + not running AB \o/)

    EHP is kinda low though, but your sig radius does help (97.5, can get lower with implants/booster/ganglink), meaning you mitigate some dps from medium weapons (125 signature) and missiles: HAMs (125) and upwards. HML with all V is 92,75, so needs implants/ganglink/booster to get reduced dmg.

    I tried a similar fit with the Shielding subsystem, but not sure if it's better. You lose the Nanofibre in exchange for a highslot that you can't really make use of (due to PG), meaning you are slower and less agile. Your EHP goes up quite a bit (~50%, partly because losing the nano=more structure), as well as your tank, but you are taking more dmg. You do get some extra CPU though so you can the DC and some other mods (above fit is 0.25 under).

    So trying to find out if it's worth it. Figuring out while I post:

    It doesn't help that the damage reduction from signature radius formula is so elusive. I've seen several different guides each claiming a different method of how signature radius affects dmg taken. Missiles seem to be a linear relation (ie. a factor of Target signature / Explosion radius) but for turrets I've seen amongst others: a quadradic one (target signature^2 / turret signature^2), a linear one, as well as some others.

    The official CCP one says that (turret signature/target signature) is multiplied by (Transversal speed / (range to target * turret tracking) ) and then squared, then falloff/optimal calculation, then the whole thing is put together and then 0,5^(all that stuff) is the chance to hit. So basically, it reduces the speed at which you need to go to get under the tracking of the guns. In my calculations it doesn't work out like it should, so likely it should instead be 10 times the range to the target in km (more logical results that way).

    Time for an example with easy numbers that make the math less work \o/
    Lets say you are 10km away from the target, his guns have 0,02 tracking and 125 sig radius, his optimal is 10km, your sig radius is 125 and transversal is 200 m/s.
    He now has 0,5^( ( 200 / (10 * 10 * 0,02) * ( 125 / 125 ) )^2 = 0,5^( (1 * 1) ^2) = 50% chance to hit you.

    If your sig radius is 62.5 (halved), the formula becomes:
    0,5^( (200/ (10*10*0,02))*(125/62.5))^2 = 0,5^( (1*2)^2) = 6.25% chance to hit.
    or: you now only need to travel at 100 transversal to get 50% chance to hit

    So the general relation is something like: every % difference between your sig and targets gun sig, means 1% lower speed you have to go to get the same misschance.

    All in all this post is way more trouble than it's worth, so probably just get the shield subsystem instead. Hooray!
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I'm doing my best. Well. Not really.

  4. #44
    Pacefalm's Avatar
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    Re: Loki

    [Loki, u mad? v2]
    Damage Control II
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
    Gyrostabilizer II
    Tracking Enhancer II

    10MN Afterburner II
    Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
    Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
    Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
    Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor

    Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Torrent Assault Missile
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

    Medium Projectile Burst Aerator II
    Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I

    Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
    Loki Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
    Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
    Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
    Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


    Warrior II x5
    Hornet EC-300 x5

    Shield subsystem fit. RF Gyro is for CPU

    Didnt work this out as much, probably could drop the launcher and get a med nos/upgrade a gun or 2. Neut doesn't sound like a good idea because you are barely cap sufficient yourself. Tanks better though and dps is higher (launcher), also doesn't need implant to fit. A bit slower/agile like I said above.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I'm doing my best. Well. Not really.

  5. #45
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Re: Loki

    Would you not have to completely commit to kill even a cane or drake? I.E. be orbiting fast as poss/around their hull and never be able to get away even if they just had long point + mwd? How about tracking vs frigates, going to get pinned until the blob arrives?
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  6. #46
    Pacefalm's Avatar
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    Re: Loki

    Yeah, true. The dps is pretty good though so I think canes/drakes will not be too much trouble (dual med neuts can be tricky but you can just inject-> activate booster). Most frigs would probably still die to the AC's+drones if you manualpilot. But I don't think you should fly it solo in either case (both fits) because of those reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I'm doing my best. Well. Not really.

  7. #47
    cillisia's Avatar
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    Re: Loki

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacefalm
    [Loki, u mad?]
    Internal Force Field Array I
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
    Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II

    10MN Afterburner II
    Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
    Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
    Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
    Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor

    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

    Medium Projectile Burst Aerator II
    Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I

    Loki Defensive - Amplification Node
    Loki Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
    Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
    Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
    Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


    Warrior II x5
    Hornet EC-300 x5

    Barely over PG, so use with 1% PG implant or reduced PG need for guns, otherwise downgrade one gun.
    Deals 696 dps before heat, 788 heated (!).
    Omnitanks 722 burst dps before heat, 820 when heating the invul (6,5 mins), .
    822m/s before heat (1103m/s)
    Cap lasts until boosters run out (cap stable if overheating the injector + not running AB \o/)

    EHP is kinda low though, but your sig radius does help (97.5, can get lower with implants/booster/ganglink), meaning you mitigate some dps from medium weapons (125 signature) and missiles: HAMs (125) and upwards. HML with all V is 92,75, so needs implants/ganglink/booster to get reduced dmg.

    I tried a similar fit with the Shielding subsystem, but not sure if it's better. You lose the Nanofibre in exchange for a highslot that you can't really make use of (due to PG), meaning you are slower and less agile. Your EHP goes up quite a bit (~50%, partly because losing the nano=more structure), as well as your tank, but you are taking more dmg. You do get some extra CPU though so you can the DC and some other mods (above fit is 0.25 under).

    So trying to find out if it's worth it. Figuring out while I post:

    It doesn't help that the damage reduction from signature radius formula is so elusive. I've seen several different guides each claiming a different method of how signature radius affects dmg taken. Missiles seem to be a linear relation (ie. a factor of Target signature / Explosion radius) but for turrets I've seen amongst others: a quadradic one (target signature^2 / turret signature^2), a linear one, as well as some others.

    The official CCP one says that (turret signature/target signature) is multiplied by (Transversal speed / (range to target * turret tracking) ) and then squared, then falloff/optimal calculation, then the whole thing is put together and then 0,5^(all that stuff) is the chance to hit. So basically, it reduces the speed at which you need to go to get under the tracking of the guns. In my calculations it doesn't work out like it should, so likely it should instead be 10 times the range to the target in km (more logical results that way).

    Time for an example with easy numbers that make the math less work \o/
    Lets say you are 10km away from the target, his guns have 0,02 tracking and 125 sig radius, his optimal is 10km, your sig radius is 125 and transversal is 200 m/s.
    He now has 0,5^( ( 200 / (10 * 10 * 0,02) * ( 125 / 125 ) )^2 = 0,5^( (1 * 1) ^2) = 50% chance to hit you.

    If your sig radius is 62.5 (halved), the formula becomes:
    0,5^( (200/ (10*10*0,02))*(125/62.5))^2 = 0,5^( (1*2)^2) = 6.25% chance to hit.
    or: you now only need to travel at 100 transversal to get 50% chance to hit

    So the general relation is something like: every % difference between your sig and targets gun sig, means 1% lower speed you have to go to get the same misschance.

    All in all this post is way more trouble than it's worth, so probably just get the shield subsystem instead. Hooray!
    confused now, I think i might just keep using a cane and then get some crystals and use a sleipnir instead, pimped out it costs less than a loki, does more dps and tanks more dps :/ Just quite liked the idea of being cheaky and dodging incoming damage with halo's (that and a hg set is pretty cheap)

    Joined: 18 Mar 2008
    Contracts to 'Admiral Rufus' please

  8. #48

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    April 10, 2011
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    Re: Loki

    My main problem with the Sleipnir is that is so fucking weak cap. Thats actually the problem with most neat med class ships. The T3 caps are far better at handling a few neuts while you are injecting to run your mods.
    ________________________
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  9. #49
    Lex Fasces's Avatar
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    Re: Loki

    but then does this have the dps and range of a sleip?

  10. #50
    cillisia's Avatar
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    Re: Loki

    Need to finish training towards all these ships I want to fly so I can actually get a realworld understanding on if they work, bc V in 10 days, :O then cruiser V, (yeah i know i did it backwards, needed a 3 week long skill)

    Joined: 18 Mar 2008
    Contracts to 'Admiral Rufus' please

  11. #51

    Join Date
    May 2, 2011
    Posts
    13

    Re: Loki

    Good day:

    Does anyone have a fit they like that would work for low sec solo pvp (including piracy)? It there a typical pirate loki fit (speed, get out capability, etc.)?

    Thank you.

  12. #52

    Join Date
    April 11, 2011
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    Re: Loki

    Posted on page 2

    Haven't seen a web shield fit yet.

    [Loki, Vuginn]
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II
    Tracking Enhancer II
    Tracking Enhancer II
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer

    Large Shield Extender II
    Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
    Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
    Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

    Small Energy Neutralizer II
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

    Medium Core Defence Field Extender II
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender II
    Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II

    Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
    Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
    Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
    Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
    Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers


    Warrior II x5
    Hornet EC-300 x5

    Might be sort of what you are after. But T3's in lowsec attract LOTS of attention.

  13. #53

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    April 23, 2011
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    2

    Re: Loki

    Loki have shitty agility, and it's a brick, in LS without a scout you'll die sooner or later to single proper gate camp.

  14. #54
    Donor Rudolf Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Loki

    Quote Originally Posted by Mara Abraham
    Good day:

    Does anyone have a fit they like that would work for low sec solo pvp (including piracy)? It there a typical pirate loki fit (speed, get out capability, etc.)?

    Thank you.
    Your politeness on this internet spaceships forum is really creeping me out

  15. #55

    Join Date
    April 12, 2011
    Posts
    7

    Re: Loki

    Code:
    [Loki, lolki]
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
    Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
    Centum A-Type Energized Reactive Membrane
    Centum A-Type Energized Magnetic Membrane
    1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
    1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
    
    Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
    Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
    Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
    Shadow Serpentis 10MN MicroWarpdrive
    
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
    
    Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
    Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
    Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
    Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
    Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
    
    
    Warrior II x5
    520 dps
    166k ehp no implants
    220k ehp w/ lg slaves
    for more tank fit a iffa for 258k ehp
    lg slaves w/ iffa w/ damnation w/ mindlink gives 356k ehp
    a-type things can be regular hardeners or faction depending on cpu
    1328m/s
    can use full rack of 220's if you don't have engineering sub V
    works well with triage/guardians

    Used mine a lot in lowsec and 0.0

    This fit is basically in the first post, but its pretty solid imo so reposting anyways

  16. #56

    Join Date
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    477

    Re: Loki

    Standard fit (-T2 trimarks -425's +DC) we use to support Abaddons. Abaddons + Guardians + Proteii + Lokis = destruction.

  17. #57

    Join Date
    April 24, 2011
    Posts
    88

    Re: Loki

    Hi Guys!
    there is a way to create a setup for 0.0 hunting? something with:

    web, covert ops, interdiction nullifier and shiled tank? all with a decent DPS? i created this:

    [Loki, 0.0]
    Tracking Enhancer II
    Tracking Enhancer II
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer

    Large Shield Extender II
    Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
    Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
    Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

    50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
    Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M

    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
    Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II

    Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
    Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
    Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
    Loki Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier
    Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers

    Can be viable for 0.0 solo or in 2-3 with same ship?

  18. #58
    Sneakyfool's Avatar
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    Re: Loki

    Quote Originally Posted by gerwiga
    Code:
    [Loki, lolki]
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
    Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
    Centum A-Type Energized Reactive Membrane
    Centum A-Type Energized Magnetic Membrane
    1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
    1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
    
    Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
    Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
    Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
    Shadow Serpentis 10MN MicroWarpdrive
    
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
    
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
    Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
    
    Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
    Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
    Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
    Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
    Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
    
    
    Warrior II x5
    I see quite a few of these mixed gun setups, but i've been schooled from noobness to use one type of gun, now i understand that usually it's because diffrent guns have diffrent optimals etc but i guess it's not so bad with Minny guns?. Or maybe i'm missing something!
    I asked for some advice in a department store about a gift for someone special.

    The sales assistant said "we have a beautiful selection of gold necklaces and diamond rings just in".

    I replied "no thanks, the fucking spastic will just eat those, got any Spiderman bibs?"

  19. #59
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Re: Loki

    I don't really get the concern, it's not like they're mixing sizes or long vs short projectiles, there's a slight difference in range and tracking, balanced by fitting as much dps as poss without gimping the rest of the fit.

    Lol T2 medium armour rigs.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  20. #60
    Donor Rudolf Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Loki

    Quote Originally Posted by laz0rz
    Hi Guys!
    there is a way to create a setup for 0.0 hunting? something with:

    web, covert ops, interdiction nullifier and shiled tank? all with a decent DPS? i created this:

    [Loki, 0.0]
    Tracking Enhancer II
    Tracking Enhancer II
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer

    Large Shield Extender II
    Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
    Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
    Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

    50W Infectious Power System Malfunction
    Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M

    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
    Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II

    Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
    Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
    Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
    Loki Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier
    Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers

    Can be viable for 0.0 solo or in 2-3 with same ship?
    From someone who's used a similar fit to be a bubble camping dick, let me give you some advice.

    You are more frail than many ships. Anything with respectable DPS numbers will likely have an advantage 1 on 1. If anyone lands a scram on you, you're already dead. You also will not be able to use speed or kiting to your advantage, because the loki handles like a vagabond that went on an all mcdonalds diet. Lack of drones means a competent ishkur, and many other small ships will kill you.

    Basically what I'm saying is, if you wanna pursue this ship idea, fly a rapier first. A little less DPS and no bubble immunity, but much less chance of dying of derp.

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