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Thread: Flip the Script: What is GOOD about EVE today, what does EVE/CCP have going for them?

  1. #21
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    EVE has one of the best character creators out there.

    Also as mentioned above a very passionate playerbase, if it wasn't for the passion we wouldn't want to beat the living crap out of CCP at times.

  2. #22
    Donor Mynxee's Avatar
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    Friendships (quite a lot of which evolved into real life ones) and the ability to talk and collaborate with people from all over the world were my favorite things about playing EVE. That and heart-rattling small-ship, small-scale PvP. Making FiS losses meaningful was a brilliant move by CCP. May that aspect of the game never change and only become even more pervasive.

    Edited to add:

    Also, goddammit, this thread is really making me miss the game.
    Last edited by Mynxee; September 26 2011 at 06:58:27 PM.

  3. #23
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    Large scale combat on a scale that other games simply don't come close to (I am aware that not everyone likes big fights but if you do, EVE is the go-to)

    EVE is one of the very few MMOs that actually lets you lose.

    CCP give more freedom to the way the players interect than any other MMO I know of. And that gives player interaction real meaning, which is a truly rare thing in so-called MMOs these days.

    Spaceships

    The market/economy. Simply the best, bar none. I hear good things about crafting in SWG, and that's something that could usefully be imported, but as things stand: EVE or GTFO.

    No bloody Elves. It's not cute, it's not kawai, it's not pretty. The "ruthless, inhuman Ultras playing games with the lives of thousands of ordinary mortals against a background of cold empty space" thing is well conveyed, especially since we got the new planets.

    The sheer range of ~things to do~ is pretty fucking epic

    The complexity and harshness of EVE means that (once you gtfo out of hi-sec), the people you play alongside and against tend to be - at least on average - more intelligent. Obviously there are still lots of fucktards but not so many as you might expect.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    it's not pretty.
    Have you ever played on maxed settings?


  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batolemaeus View Post
    Eve has always been one promise; that you'd log in, go about your business, and something interesting would happen.
    With so many people minding their business, and getting into each others paths, the potential for interaction was enormous.

    Eve has also always been a game of cultures, or, to be more precise, of cultural interaction. Elsewhere you could not expect to cross paths with more interesting people than in Eve.

    There would always be something unexpected. You'd log in right into a time where a huge response fleet was forming, and off you went. You'd log in only to see some really risky deal yielding tons of moneys. No matter what, Eve would always be interesting; thousands of things going on at the same time, while you slept.

    CCP has destroyed a lot of this. But the potential, it's still there.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
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  6. #26
    Six Strangelove's Avatar
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    EVE is the only MMO I've ever played where PVP seemed meaningful, win or lose.

    The goals could be arbitrary (Hulkageddon, drunken suicide roams, battleBadgers) or wide-reaching (completely clear X alliance out of Y space, crush teh enemiez), but they were our goals, we set them for ourselves.

    There wasn't just some leaderboard, a means to gain sword of leaderboarding+5, vs the mass anonymous.

    The marketplace is its own battlefield, not one I ever fought on, but it was there if you had the mind for it.

    EVE is the only MMO that has The Metagame. Politicking, intelligence, misinformation. Razor Posters. Real management. Diplomacy and subterfuge. Thoughtnaughts.

    EVE has consequence for being an asshole, not 'invisible boundries' preventing you from being one.

    Relative to the above, EVE is the only MMO with 'personalities'. Mittens here (who incidently personally hulkaggeddened my alt a few years ago, for which I am still amused), Chribba. Guiding Hand Social Club. All those names and collectives past and present who achieved notoriety in one form another, by doing things they really could've only done in EVE.

    EVE is the only MMO I've really made a bunch of friends with. A fun bunch of guys (and gals) that I've been playing with for years who've helped made EVE and even better place for me.

    EVE is also the only MMO I've ever played where, six weeks in, the veneer of theme hadn't worn away to show painfully what it really was. Kill ten rats, return for XP. Kill ten bigger rats for more XP. Get some friends to help you kill a Really Big Rat for purple drops and XP.

    I don't give a shit about SWTOR. Give it a month and it'll be the same thing. Kill ten womp rats. Get a better blaster.

    I dunno. I hate EVE and I love EVE. I just know I'll miss it (and my mates) if it should disappear, and I'll be deeply irritated at CCP if it turns out to be their fault it does so.

  7. #27
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    No other MMO offers the kind of dynamic PvP that is possible in EVE. Sure there are strategies and tactics in other MMOs but I've never seen anything even remotely close to the kind of grand strategies and detailed tactics used in EVE.

    I have rarely felt the same fear and adrenaline rush that I felt taking my first Vexor into lowsec with a gang of ten other corpmates to face off against a pirate corp that was blockading a common lowsec pipe. No other game has made me feel that.

    Status of Babby: 100% Formed

  8. #28
    XenosisReaper
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    I still feel that Eve's greatest power over players it that no other MMO turns around and says's "alright, if you fuck up, right now, you WILL lose the last 3 months of your own work, deal with it"

    No other MMO, hell, no other game has given me that rush.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisReaper View Post
    I still feel that Eve's greatest power over players it that no other MMO turns around and says's "alright, if you fuck up, right now, you WILL lose the last 3 months of your own work, deal with it"

    No other MMO, hell, no other game has given me that rush.
    Players on other MMOs complain when they have to spend a month re-gearing after a content upgrade - I don't even know how they'd respond to losing their shiny raid gear to a random open world PVP gank on the way to the raid. :P

    -Liang

    PS: Yes, I really do know how they'd respond.

  10. #30
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    The first time I died in eve was the most exciting thing to happen to me in a game ever. Even being on the losing end of the stick was exhilarating. I just started laughing and spamming my jump button while my heart rate slowly came down. I can't remember ever having a response like that to a video game.

    I need to go lose some more ships one of these days.

  11. #31

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    When you go to Ogrimmar, the Zeppelin overhead is coded in. The shop keepers are scripts, and not even smart ones.

    When you go to Jita, you sell to humans, you buy from humans, you are scammed by humans. There's a player flying that mile-long cargoship currently esclipsing the sun, and for that matter the other 17 giant fucking scifi transports dotted around your screen.

    It looks like something out of Babylon 5 or a Star Wars 'crowd shot', but none of it is staged. Everyone is there for their own reasons, and you might never know what it is.



    Also, in EVE, you can claim a moon. I can literally stick my flag in orbit and say "This is mine until one of you cunts takes it".
    A whole fucking moon. With work, you and your buddies can take whole systems, whole constellations, declare yourselves all to be Space Popes. Not much comes up to that elsewhere.


    Quote Originally Posted by Arkaday View Post
    The first time I died in eve was the most exciting thing to happen to me in a game ever. Even being on the losing end of the stick was exhilarating. I just started laughing and spamming my jump button while my heart rate slowly came down. I can't remember ever having a response like that to a video game.

    I need to go lose some more ships one of these days.
    Tell me about it: PvP in EVE is something else. One time, my corp was doing a supply run and got jumped by a pair of Hydra Machariels: we fought them off, only to get hot-dropped by 6 PL Nyxes. That was fucking intense, and even though I was out an Orca, I couldn't stop laughing.

    I mean shit. My no-consequence w-space corp getting jumped by two of the game's best PvP crews, literally minutes after the end of the AT9 finals. I played WoW for years and never saw the best PvP guys on the server (or if I did, I had no way to recognise them).
    Last edited by killfalcon; September 26 2011 at 08:50:34 PM.

  12. #32
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    something positive.... hummmm....

    well the economy is... reliable
    ... in that nothing changed and thus everything more or less costs the same as two-three years ago
    [bar the usual inflation and the extra inflation for moon goo] [and bar some kondratiev'ish pendulum swings]

    vOv

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by killfalcon View Post
    I played WoW for years and never saw the best PvP guys on the server (or if I did, I had no way to recognise them).
    This seems to be a consistent problem other WOW-clone MMOs have. They fail to encourage community - in many ways. At some point, I'll post a quasi-pro Eve diatribe here extolling the virtues of classless levelless systems and explain in no uncertain detail why they're superior for sustaining long term growth of a community. The tl;dr is that the community doesn't tear itself apart on game mechanics and buffs/nerfs are rarely strong enough to destroy entire characters. A spot of inconvenience to train up a few new skills is totally different from 'shelve this character until X class is FOTM again'.

    -Liang

  14. #34

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    Another good thing about Eve: the community is second to none as far as I can tell. Despite the devs.

    -Liang

  15. #35

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    1) The Economy is second to none. It is incredibly complex and not managed through deus ex (at least not to the degree that other MMOs deal with mudflation.)

    2) The PvP is incredibly thrilling. Partially because there is so much on the line, and partially because it rewards talent instead of time invested. A 2 week old player that is sufficiently skilled can go out and gank 5 year old players.

    2.1) The game rewards skill over time spent. In this way it somehow gives you the FPS twitch game feel in a persistent world.

    3) The game treats you like an adult. You make choices on very complex variables and you suffer (or enjoy) the consequences. The complexity of the variables present can be astonishingly deep as well (non-mineral based industrial stuff for instance.) This used to be a community where the phrase "Go back to WoW" was used a lot. Sadly not so much anymore though...

    4) Single-shard server. Being the top pooba on a 5k man server that is one of 100 servers means dick. Being the top pooba on a 300k man server (or whatever it is) that is the only server means something more. In a game that fosters competition it allows massive differentiation of skillsets. Edit: It also allows for a "real" community.

    5) It's actually multiplayer.

    6) The world is enough of a sandbox that the stories of significance are created by the players themselves.
    Last edited by Hellkyte; September 26 2011 at 09:18:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the clown.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mynxee View Post
    Friendships (quite a lot of which evolved into real life ones) and the ability to talk and collaborate with people from all over the world were my favorite things about playing EVE. That and heart-rattling small-ship, small-scale PvP. Making FiS losses meaningful was a brilliant move by CCP. May that aspect of the game never change and only become even more pervasive.

    Edited to add:

    Also, goddammit, this thread is really making me miss the game.
    After psotting here, I sat on the EVE account activation screen for 10 minutes fighting the urge to resub. I didn't in the end, but it wa s mostly because sucks huge dollops of RL time, which I don't have.
    Будь смиренным, будь кротким, не заботься о тленном
    Власти, данной Богом, сынок, будь навеки верным...
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  17. #37
    Xiang Jiao's Avatar
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    Eve is a matter of taking the good with the bad. Ships and space battles are the two biggest tickets for me, although I will have to add a caveat - the UI really sucks for managing all that, and it's buggy. That leads me to the second half of the question regarding CCP. What do they do right? In Eve, CCP has not been afraid to make big balance changes, like the Quantum Rise expansion. They completely changed how the scrambler module works (hint: it didn't turn off your MWD before) and instantly made a useless module relevant in combat. However, this was also another nail in the coffin for Gallente combat design. I'd like to see more of that kind of dedication to game balance in CCP right now. They are often so close to managing a good release, but just come up short.

    Over the Summer, there were several ad hoc GM run high sec incursions where Sansha would open wormholes on the stargates and just shoot players randomly. Freighters became giant pinatas of loot, and scavengers frantically zipped around in frigates to take what they could. I think CCP should actively promote more pirate incursions and have them engage Eve citizens anywhere (except perhaps the noobie systems). Players should be conditioned to not feel safe anywhere. There needs to be more CCP-sponsored player run events like Hulkageddeon, which seems to have now gone the way of the buffalo. Anything that promotes more boom is a good thing.

    Fixing the little things; there has to be more of it, and they have to try to not break something new every time they fix something broken. For example, ever since the patch that was supposed to fix offline modules when switching ships, I can't seem to complete nanite paste repairs in space. It only fixes a little bit of damage at a time for certain modules, and on others it works fine. Also, the game still doesn't remember which modules to keep online and offline in my fittings. Often, I have an offline module in the extra high slot, and the game cannot remember that it should always be offline unless I manually flip it on by offlining another module first.

    I regret that I could not be entirely positive in my endorsements, but it's the nature of the Icelandic beast. CCP drives some great features about 80% of the way to perfect, and then totally chokes on the final 20.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    After psotting here, I sat on the EVE account activation screen for 10 minutes fighting the urge to resub. I didn't in the end, but it wa s mostly because sucks huge dollops of RL time, which I don't have.
    I am able to separate the Eve That Was vs the Eve That Will Be, personally. CCP has shown they have no intention of continuing to create a game that I'm interested in playing. Furthermore, it's very hard for me to overcome the amount of dicking they've done to the player base (read: me). I am very much letting them observe what I'm doing rather than what I'm saying.

    I've actually given a fair amount of thought to why communities like FHC have so many bitter unsubscribed vets that still frequent the Eve section of the board, and I can only come to the conclusion that the potential that Eve represents is mindboggling. We all agree that it will never be The WOW Killer, but it's really never going to die until the game creators force the issue. As it stands, they're trying very hard to go after a different demographic than the game actually has and interests. I don't think this move is going to kill Eve, but as I said the associated moves and actions by CCP have certainly killed it for me.

    Furthermore, even the features that we've discussed here have amazing and mind boggling flaws. POS UIs, POS/Sov Bashes, Corp Mgmt UI, and even the much vaunted market window will all drive you absolutely up a fucking wall eventually. And let's not even get into such travesties as mining and RSI inducing PI.

    Until CCP sees the light of day and provably focuses their efforts on Flying In Mother Fucking SPACE, I'm done with them. I can play Themepark MMOs if I have to - or hell I can do something useful with my time like contribute to Python, Postgres, or something.

    Not to :bittervet:, because I don't feel like I really am that bitter. Just sad.

    -Liang

  19. #39
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    The single shard and level of player run... nigh on everything explains the community, coupled with a steep learning curve that pretty much forces most normal people to team up and learn from others.

    Consequences. Not only the potential to lose your 'life's work' simply moving it all to a new region but also, mostly thanks to single shardedness, your character actually does have a rep of sorts.

  20. #40
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoemySchneider View Post
    something positive.... hummmm....

    well the economy is... reliable
    ... in that nothing changed and thus everything more or less costs the same as two-three years ago
    [bar the usual inflation and the extra inflation for moon goo] [and bar some kondratiev'ish pendulum swings]

    vOv
    That doesn't explain why you played for years

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