Isn't Law just applied classics/history anyway?
Isn't Law just applied classics/history anyway?
To become a mechanical or construction engineer you (most likely) need:Originally Posted by Lallante
- close to straight A grades at school in mostly "traditional" hard subjects
- a strong (2:1 or 1st) degree from a top 15 university in a "hard" subject
- to get through rigerous and incredibly competitive interview processes
- to be willing to work hours that often exceed double those of a "normal" job
- to put up with stress that would literally mean months off work for an average public sector employee
- to consistently prioritise your work over your personal life
To complain that all lawyers and bankers don't deserve what they are paid you need:
- a brain
- a clue
Good one Lallante, +rep for the trolling.
Now I feel bad...
Everything he posts in that manner is a troll so always respond in kind.Now I feel bad...
Free time is worth exponentially more the more of it you give up. To an unemployed person, giving up one hour of free time a day might be worth $8-10/hr.It is there fault they choose that life style. The salaries are disproportionation to the amount of work of say a bricklayer.
None of those above things make you better then any other person it just means you have sacrificed your life and made yourself a slave to that system.
To someone working a 40 hour week at 20$/hr, that extra hour a day is often worth 30 - 40$/hr - lots of people would rather have the time than another 20$.
To a guy working 16 hour days, that extra hour is worth a shittonne.
To a guy working 18 - 19 hour days 7 days a week (yes, people do do this), that extra hour is basically priceless as you would struggle to function.
This is why linear comparisons are meaningless, even if you disregard the differences in skill, ability, value etc of different jobs.
fypTo become a mechanical or construction engineer you (most likely) need:
- close to straight A grades at school in mostly "traditional" hard subjects
- a strong (2:1 or 1st) degree from a top 15 university in a "hard" subject
- to get through a reasonably competitive interview processes
- to be willing to work normal hours
- normal levels of stress
- be a nerd
Must be trollin'.
Engineers (not the standard 'trained' workers) put in a hell of a lot of effort and overtime, and as for stress, they are often made the scapegoat for decisions made by idiot managers who don't have a clue about the problems or product they are selling and so are put under exponential pressure when things go wrong, even when they have identified the potential pitfall and made it known to those above, before the brown stuff hits the spinny thing.
Anyway, back on topic. Bankers, lawyers and politicians seem unable to be trusted with the money/regulation/everything and so we will continue to see problems like the banking crisis appear every couple of decades. Apathy at the systems will increase. Distrust will increase and human life will bumble along in it's unique way. The corrupt will stay at the top of their respective trees as they all have a combined vested interest on keeping the status quo in place, living comfortably and ignoring the grubby proletariat below them and failing to see the vaunted position they are in and forgetting who placed them there, and who's money they are playing with.
IF, and i mean if, things change in the banking/market systems, it will be a breath of fresh air. It may actually mean something to have savings once more. But unfortunately, i wouldn't bother holding my breath.
Shitting up eve for .... well, longer than most of you scumbags.
BF training for this at the moment. He has 6 a levels (maths, english literature, law, english language, physics and something else... history I think), goes to Nottingham university and is likely to come away with a 1:1 after a year studying in france as part of his law degree for the experience. he is still not sure whether he'll land a good job after, it's that competitive at the moment.
Hello? Oh, hello! I'm sorry it's a very bad line. No, no no... but that's not possible, she was sealed in to the Seventh Obelisk after the prayer meeting. Well, no, I get that it's important... an Egyptian Goddess loose on the Orient Express. In Space. Give us a mo....
... don't worry about a thing, your Majesty; we're on our way.
ITT lallante failing at his trolling.fypTo become a mechanical or construction engineer you (most likely) need:
- close to straight A grades at school in mostly "traditional" hard subjects
- a strong (2:1 or 1st) degree from a top 15 university in a "hard" subject
- to get through a reasonably competitive interview processes
- to be willing to work normal hours
- normal levels of stress
- be a nerd
It's a pointless argument anyway. When you boil down to it, it comes down to: "We work very hard/are very smart; that is why we get these absurd salaries. And we must be working very hard/be very smart, otherwise they wouldn't pay us these absurd salaries."
Personally I think a lot of construction workers work a lot harder than they do, especially if they run their own shop. But they get paid shit. But who are we to say that the construction worker deserves to earn more, while the bankers deserve to get paid less? In the end both make their pitch for their salary. If the shareholders of those banks keep giving in to those exorbitant demands, the bankers will keep getting those absurd salaries. Just as if the people keep valuing construction work less, those construction workers will keep earning less. Sorry, but that's capitalism, and that's the free market.
The argument could be made though that all the hooplah the bankers have caused in the last 5 years kind of indicates that those salaries are undeserved because they had to fuck over a lot of people to make their salaries look justified. On top of that, save for the last two financial derps (JP Morgan London Whale and Barclays) none of that salary has been forcibly withdrawn for causing considerable harm to the public and indeed the world economy.
I for one think that bankers have been doing a marvelous job of making themselves money and am glad they are being compensated appropriately for their ability to generate themselves wealth.
Spain's 99% occupy Madrid against Rato's banking and Rajoy's austerity
The M-15 movement is mobilising against the government's swingeing cuts to pay for a eurozone bailout of Spanish banks
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...id?INTCMP=SRCH
A protest march in Madrid against the Spanish government's austerity measures. Photograph: Susana Vera/Reuters
As Spain's prime minister announced deep austerity cuts Wednesday in order to secure funds from the European Union to bail out Spain's failing banks, the people of Spain have taken to the streets once again for what they call "Real Democracy Now".
This comes a week after the government announced it was launching a criminal investigation into the former CEO of Spain's fourth-largest bank, Bankia. Rodrigo Rato is no small fish: before running Bankia, he was head of the International Monetary Fund. What the US media don't tell you is that this official government investigation was initiated by grassroots action.
The Occupy movement in Spain is called M-15, for the day it began, May 15, 2011. I met with one of the key organizers in Madrid last week on the day the Rato investigation was announced. He smiled, and said, "Something is starting to happen." The organizer, Stephane Grueso, is an activist filmmaker who is making a documentary about the May 15 movement. He is a talented professional, but, like 25% of the Spanish population, he is unemployed.
"We didn't like what we were seeing, where we were going. We felt we were losing our democracy, we were losing our country, we were losing our way of life … We had one slogan: 'Democracia real YA!' – we want a 'real democracy, now!'
"Fifty people stayed overnight in Puerta del Sol, this public square. And then the police tried to take us out, and so we came back. And then this thing began to multiply in other cities in Spain. In three, four days' time, we were like tens of thousands of people in dozens of cities in Spain, camped in the middle of the city – a little bit like we saw in Tahrir in Egypt."
The occupation of Puerta del Sol and other plazas around Spain continued, but, as with Occupy Wall Street encampments around the US, they were eventually broken up. The organizing continued, though, with issue-oriented working groups and neighborhood assemblies. One M-15 working group decided to sue Rodrigo Rato, and recruited pro bono lawyers and identified more than 50 plaintiffs – people who felt they'd been personally defrauded by Bankia.
While the lawyers were volunteers, a massive lawsuit costs money, so this movement, driven by social media, turned to "crowd funding", to the masses of supporters in their movement for small donations. In less than a day, they raised more than $25,000. The lawsuit was filed in June of this year.
Olmo Galvez is another M-15 organizer I met with in Madrid. A young businessman with experience around the world, Galvez was profiled in Time magazine when they chose "The Protester" as the Person of the Year. Rato's alleged fraud at Bankia involved the sale of Bankia "preferred stock" to regular account-holders, so-called retail investors, since sophisticated investors were not buying it. Galvez explained:
"They were selling it to people – some of them couldn't read, many were elderly. That was a big scandal that wasn't in the media."
Some who invested in Bankia's scheme had to sign the contract with a fingerprint because they couldn't write, let alone understand what they were sinking their savings into.
This week, thousands of coal miners marched to Madrid, some walking 240 miles from Asturias, on Spain's northern coast. When the miners arrived Tuesday night, according to the online publication ElDiario.es, they chanted "somos el 99%" ("we are the 99%") and were greeted like heroes. Wednesday morning, Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, of the rightwing Partido Popular, made his latest pronouncement on austerity measures: an increase in the sales tax, cuts to the public-sector payroll, and shortening the period of unemployment support to six months.
As Rajoy was making his announcement in parliament, the miners were in the streets, joined by thousands of regular citizens, all demanding that government cuts be halted. The marchers were met by riot police, who fired rubber-coated steel balls and tear gas at them. Some protesters returned with volleys of firecrackers and other projectiles, and, in the ensuing melee, at least 76 were injured and eight arrested.
Stephane Grueso sums up the movement:
"We are not a party. We are not a union. We are not an association. We are people. We want to expel corruption from public life … Now, today, maybe it is starting to happen."
• Denis Moynihan contributed research to this column
A banker, a problem. No banker, no problem.
Comrad Stalin had one solution for every problem.
retarded [r??t??d?d]
adj; underdeveloped, esp mentally and esp having an IQ of 70 to 85 See also ESN, mental handicap, subnormal
What about the ability to spell simple words like rigorous? Is that neccessary?
The thing is, it may well be that bankers are smarter and harder working than doctors, architects, teachers, engineers etc, but the question is are they ten times smarter and harder working?
Also, if a doctor is a bit crap and has too many patients die on him he gets struck off. If the houses built by a builder all fall down after a week, he goes out of business. If a banker messes up the economy he gets a nice wad of cash.
Last edited by Rodj Blake; July 13 2012 at 09:09:53 AM.
Yeah, sorry, but that salary is paid and gone. Water under the bridge.The argument could be made though that all the hooplah the bankers have caused in the last 5 years kind of indicates that those salaries are undeserved because they had to fuck over a lot of people to make their salaries look justified. On top of that, save for the last two financial derps (JP Morgan London Whale and Barclays) none of that salary has been forcibly withdrawn for causing considerable harm to the public and indeed the world economy.
If you have a case for "considerable harm to the public and indeed the world economy", bring it: try to get a fine imposed, on the bank, on them personally.
But in the meantime, just as with your salary: what you get is determined by negotiations between you and they guy who pays you. The general public is not a partner in those negotiations ...
It should be when their salary is funded by public bailouts.Yeah, sorry, but that salary is paid and gone. Water under the bridge.The argument could be made though that all the hooplah the bankers have caused in the last 5 years kind of indicates that those salaries are undeserved because they had to fuck over a lot of people to make their salaries look justified. On top of that, save for the last two financial derps (JP Morgan London Whale and Barclays) none of that salary has been forcibly withdrawn for causing considerable harm to the public and indeed the world economy.
If you have a case for "considerable harm to the public and indeed the world economy", bring it: try to get a fine imposed, on the bank, on them personally.
But in the meantime, just as with your salary: what you get is determined by negotiations between you and they guy who pays you. The general public is not a partner in those negotiations ...
And how exactly does one bring that case today? It's been 5 years and the only financeer who's gone to jail is the one who ponzi'd some of the richest people in the world. It's pretty clear the whole system is so well paid for that trying to hold people accountable for the damage they did would go nowhere. It's a systemic cancer.Yeah, sorry, but that salary is paid and gone. Water under the bridge.The argument could be made though that all the hooplah the bankers have caused in the last 5 years kind of indicates that those salaries are undeserved because they had to fuck over a lot of people to make their salaries look justified. On top of that, save for the last two financial derps (JP Morgan London Whale and Barclays) none of that salary has been forcibly withdrawn for causing considerable harm to the public and indeed the world economy.
If you have a case for "considerable harm to the public and indeed the world economy", bring it: try to get a fine imposed, on the bank, on them personally.
But in the meantime, just as with your salary: what you get is determined by negotiations between you and they guy who pays you. The general public is not a partner in those negotiations ...
And Zeekar is right. There's no shame. Public money that got pumped into banks still slushed various funds and maintained the golden parachutes for the upper echelon. A painfully small percentage went towards easing the financial distress that provoked the bailouts (and why would they, the government was taking on heaps of distressed properties anyways. Win/win).
That has nothing to do with salaries and everything to do with shitty politicians. Well, supposedly those politicians work for us, you know, the people. Don't like the politicians? Don't vote for them: hold them accountable for their actions, or, in this case, lack of actions.And how exactly does one bring that case today? It's been 5 years and the only financeer who's gone to jail is the one who ponzi'd some of the richest people in the world. It's pretty clear the whole system is so well paid for that trying to hold people accountable for the damage they did would go nowhere. It's a systemic cancer.Yeah, sorry, but that salary is paid and gone. Water under the bridge.The argument could be made though that all the hooplah the bankers have caused in the last 5 years kind of indicates that those salaries are undeserved because they had to fuck over a lot of people to make their salaries look justified. On top of that, save for the last two financial derps (JP Morgan London Whale and Barclays) none of that salary has been forcibly withdrawn for causing considerable harm to the public and indeed the world economy.
If you have a case for "considerable harm to the public and indeed the world economy", bring it: try to get a fine imposed, on the bank, on them personally.
But in the meantime, just as with your salary: what you get is determined by negotiations between you and they guy who pays you. The general public is not a partner in those negotiations ...
And Zeekar is right. There's no shame. Public money that got pumped into banks still slushed various funds and maintained the golden parachutes for the upper echelon. A painfully small percentage went towards easing the financial distress that provoked the bailouts (and why would they, the government was taking on heaps of distressed properties anyways. Win/win).
And, BTW, as that article in Spain told you: you can bring action against those banks/bankers if you want to/have a grievance. But the fact is, you won't. You'll rather have someone else do it for you while you complain on an internet spaceships forum how everything is skewed against you anyway ...
Pfffff ....
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