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Thread: The Austerity Spiral? (obligatory loleconomics thread)

  1. #1401

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    But Rodj, everyone knows forcing companies to pay a decent wage just results in them being crowded out of the market. Just look at how unemployment skyrocketed when the minimum wage was introduced!

  2. #1402
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    The centrist position is the only logically tenable one. Everyone else is wrong.

    /thread

  3. #1403
    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    So, eurozone encourages Spanish corruption reforms by giving the country buckets of money?

    Seems legit.

    Blah blah tapatalk
    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

    "You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."


  4. #1404

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    It's awful that these guys have no place to stay while they look for jobs! Some one should be helping them out, giving them a home and some stability while they try to get their life together!

    What? Stay at my place? Fuck no.

  5. #1405

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    The situation for the youth in Spain is incrediably depressing. The ramifications for Spanish society due to the massive scale of youth-unemployment is going to be long lasting

  6. #1406

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    Giving the Spanish a 100 bn euro freebee with no strings will go down real well in Athens & Dublin. If Spain can get free cash without the conditions, why can't they? I expect "renegotiation" to be the buzzword of the week.

    Max

  7. #1407

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    spain's gdp is nearly 3 times that of greece and ireland put together. i suspect "do one" will be the words coming from the eu should "renegotiation" become the buzzword of the week.

  8. #1408
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    The money isn't even going into the spanish economy unlike the bailouts to Ireland and Greece, it's going directly to prop up banks that have had a massive run over the last few weeks.

    Unfortunately, the entire banking system is fucked, and with current economic policies it's only a matter of time before they're all exposed.
    Last edited by Pattern; June 11 2012 at 10:34:45 AM.

  9. #1409
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    Also, someone mentioned that the coalition is on track to borrow more in 5 years than Labour did in 13, anyone got any data on this?

  10. #1410

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Also, someone mentioned that the coalition is on track to borrow more in 5 years than Labour did in 13, anyone got any data on this?
    It's probably true, but hardly a fair comparison.

    Max

  11. #1411
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Teranous View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Also, someone mentioned that the coalition is on track to borrow more in 5 years than Labour did in 13, anyone got any data on this?
    It's probably true, but hardly a fair comparison.

    Max
    Yada yada, it was all Labours fault?
    Don't get me wrong, they kicked the can down the road on several issues, didn't run a surplus during the boom years and did a exceptionally poor job at regulating the banks. But at least they got the very basics right, could make honest predictions on how they economy would react to policy, they knew it was retarded to cripple the nations ability to pay its own debts by shrinking it, silly to weaken your economy during a period where the only certainty was instability, they knew that austerity wasn't going to magically bring business confidence, that it's better providing leadership in the EU instead of standing outside the tent trying to piss into it.

    And NOW we have tories saying that what we've had wasn't really austerity mearly austerity light - yes, because they used disel instead of gasoline trying to put out the fire. 101 conservative dogma, when you fail, you clearly werent conservative enough.

    Sometimes its just important to actually point out the reality and see how it matches up with the rhetoric.
    Last edited by Pattern; June 11 2012 at 12:25:31 PM.

  12. #1412
    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    The money isn't even going into the spanish economy unlike the bailouts to Ireland and Greece, it's going directly to prop up banks that have had a massive run over the last few weeks.
    you sure? I heard it was going straight to the spanish government, quite unlike the greece deal.
    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

    "You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."


  13. #1413
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    The money isn't even going into the spanish economy unlike the bailouts to Ireland and Greece, it's going directly to prop up banks that have had a massive run over the last few weeks.
    you sure? I heard it was going straight to the spanish government, quite unlike the greece deal.
    That's exactly the opposite of what's been happening IIRC.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

  14. #1414

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    It's not set in stone, which is why the spanish are celebrating (it's generally seen as no strings attached), but the general idea is that the spanish government have been lent €100bn with the intention of them using that to recapitalise their banks, which are amongst the largest in europe. Although the debt will be held by the spanish government, the interest on the debt will be paid by the banks that get the money.

    Or something. They're not even sure where the money's coming from at the moment. The EFSF is being retired in favour of the ESM, but the Spanish government would much rather the money comes from the EFSF framework, as if it comes from the ESM, the lenders of the new €100bn get preferred creditor status, which is likely to put Spain's borrowing costs up as general bondholders would then be second in line for any repayments.

    I'm surprised the markets bounced back as strongly as they have, it's a very muddled situation.

  15. #1415
    Sirial Soulfly's Avatar
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    It is the same story over and over again banks make massive mistakes and insane bets go bankrupt and their government is told to give money or we all go to hell.
    Spain added 100 billion euro's on top of their national debt to save their banks and of course all the other European banks that have debt outstanding in Spain.
    So now Spain is pretty much on the road that Greece has taken before them, this one bailout is not going to solve any problems it just adds more debt.
    Next up is probably Italy and then France I am sure the Germans will be delighted bailing them out too.
    At least we all go down together right ?

    Interesting reading here:

    "Spain’s “victory” is in fact a defeat and the worst is yet to come"

    http://www.mindfulmoney.co.uk/wp/sha...s-yet-to-come/
    Last edited by Sirial Soulfly; June 11 2012 at 12:57:29 PM.

  16. #1416

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Also, someone mentioned that the coalition is on track to borrow more in 5 years than Labour did in 13, anyone got any data on this?
    When New Labour and to power, we were on the verge of a surplus. When New Labour left power, we had a 10% deficit. That's why.

  17. #1417

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    The problem is Sirial Soulfly that the consequences of letting these financial institutions go under are so serious that to not intervene is unfathomable. You are right though, the question of moral hazard is one of the big discussion points from the whole global financial crisis. It was talked about when banks like Bear Sterns and Lehmanan Brothers went under but others like AIG were saved and it will continue to be talked about, but its more appropriate to have the discussion about how to prevent a reoccurance of the need to bailout these sorts of institutions rather than a discussion about not doing it now.

  18. #1418
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Also, someone mentioned that the coalition is on track to borrow more in 5 years than Labour did in 13, anyone got any data on this?
    When New Labour and to power, we were on the verge of a surplus. When New Labour left power, we had a 10% deficit. That's why.
    The deficit was stable pre recession, shot up during recession. Unless you want to blame labour for that recession, you'll have to try harder than that.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

  19. #1419
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  20. #1420

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Yada yada, it was all Labours fault?
    Don't get me wrong, they kicked the can down the road on several issues, didn't run a surplus during the boom years and did a exceptionally poor job at regulating the banks.
    Bear in mind that the Tories were constantly saying that banks were suffering under too much red tape during this time.

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