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Thread: The Autism Spiral? (obligatory loluk thread)

  1. #1
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    The Autism Spiral? (obligatory loluk thread)

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...rd-august-high

    Government borrowing hits record August high
    • Public sector borrowing hit £15.9bn last month
    • City analysts were expecting £13.2bn
    • Bank of England minutes hint at more QE

    George Osborne is still likely to miss his borrowing targets for the year. Photograph: Luke Macgregor/Reuters
    Government borrowing hit a record high for August last month, as increased spending put Britain's public finances under renewed pressure.

    With the UK economy weakening, the Bank of England has signalled that it stands ready to pump more money into the economy, possibly as soon as next month.

    The government's preferred measure, public sector net borrowing excluding the impact of banking bailouts, rose to £15.9bn last month, the highest August figure on record, and compared with £14bn a year ago, according to the Office for National Statistics. It was also higher than the £13.2bn expected in the City.

    The ONS also reported that the government had borrowed less in previous months than originally thought, landing George Osborne with a near £5bn windfall. Even so, City analysts warned that the chancellor is likely to miss his borrowing targets for this year, but the Treasury insisted that he is on track.

    A Treasury spokesman said: "These are challenging times, but despite economic growth being lower than the OBR's forecast earlier this year, tax receipts have continued to grow and spending so far this year has grown at the rate the Office for Budget Responsibility forecast in the budget. These figures also include a welcome and substantial downward revision to borrowing so far this year and to overall borrowing last year."

    Borrowing in the financial year so far was revised lower by £4.6bn to £51.5bn, mainly because of a recalculation of local government data and income tax receipts. Last year's total figure was revised down to £136.7bn.

    Chris Williamson, chief economist at Markit, said the official figures dealt a blow to the government's deficit reduction targets. "There seems little hope that the government will hit its spending targets this year, as slower growth means less tax revenues and higher welfare spending," he said.

    The International Monetary Fund said this week that if UK growth turns out weaker than expected the government should ease the pace of its deficit reduction plans. The IMF slashed its forecast to 1.1% economic growth this year from 1.5%, and to 1.6% for 2012, down from 2.3%. Osborne has so far resisted pressure to reconsider his austerity measures.

    The minutes of the Bank's monetary policy committee meeting a fortnight ago showed that all nine members voted to keep interest rates unchanged, and only one member, the American economist Adam Posen, backed more quantitative easing. However, the tone of the minutes suggests the debate is shifting towards more economic stimulus – probably before Christmas.

    "For some members a continuation of the conditions seen over the past month would probably be sufficient to justify an expansion of the asset purchase programme at a subsequent meeting," the minutes said.

    This "strongly suggests that QE2 is set to be launched in the very near future," said Samuel Tombes, UK economist at Capital Economics.

    Public finances under pressure

    Commenting on the public finances, Howard Archer of IHS Global Insight warned that Osborne will miss his targets if the economy deteriorates. "If the overall performance of the first five months was replicated through the rest of the fiscal year, public borrowing would come in around £127bn, compared with the targeted £122bn," he said.

    "However, it is highly likely that the public finances will be increasingly pressurised by muted economic activity eating into tax revenues and pushing up unemployment benefit claims, so the shortfall currently looks set to be appreciably more than this."

    Speaking before the latest public finance figures were released, Danny Alexander, chief secretary to the Treasury, said the government would not be knocked off course by the IMF's lower forecasts.

    Fears over the health of the public finances were stoked this week when the Financial Times found a £12bn black hole. Its calculation, based on the Office for Budget Responsibility's methodology, showed that the structural deficit is 25% bigger than previously thought. Economists said the government would be reluctant to resort to any drastic measures such as a 2.5% VAT increase to plug the gap this year, but added that there was now a greater chance of more cutbacks in the future, with austerity likely to last into the next parliament.


    Prediction double dip for the UK... Any takers?
    Last edited by Pattern; May 13 2013 at 07:11:32 PM.

  2. #2
    Tiny's Avatar
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    To have a double dip there needs to be an upswing at some point...this was when?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    To have a double dip there needs to be an upswing at some point...this was when?
    2009-2010 in the UK economy. There also needs to be more quarters of negative growth, so we probably won't know till next summer.

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    Tiny's Avatar
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    The growth numbers were just GDP, which can be explained by the movement of money from public to private (bail out) it looks good in the numbers, has no relevnece to the real sitiution.

    In any sane metric there has been no respite from the 2008 collaspe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    The growth numbers were just GDP, which can be explained by the movement of money from public to private (bail out) it looks good in the numbers, has no relevnece to the real sitiution.

    In any sane metric there has been no respite from the 2008 collaspe.
    Do you happen to have the data for the "sane metrics" per chance? And based on official terminology isn't it GDP that matters or is there another measure?

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    Tiny's Avatar
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    I don't have number on hand, employment rates would be a good start, but realy there is no easy way to judge. GDP is a very bad way to judge as it's so easly manipulated and depends so heavily on inflation and exchange rates.

    The way finace and shit work these days you can't know what's happening 'till a few years later but it's been pain all the way where I am.

    (btw I'm really drunk, maybe argue finance/econamics when I'm soberer)
    Last edited by Tiny; September 22 2011 at 01:39:37 AM.

  7. #7
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Facing a spiral of sorts at work right now. :/

    P.S. buying high-end smartphones helps me personally via trickle-down.

    roh roh, fight da mirror powah
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    Donor Rudolf Miller's Avatar
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    Gettin the feeling day by day that the world is sliding its way into another depression. Also kinda getting the feeling that instead of Germany raising a madman dictator to power, some other country might be the lucky one.

    Anyways, the similarities from Great Depression era market charts to today's charts are somewhat shockingly similar. They are being driven by very different reasons, but the way things seem to be going, we still have about 2 more years of slide, then 15-20 years to legitimately be back to 2006-2007 market performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudolf Miller View Post
    Anyways, the similarities from Great Depression era market charts to today's charts are somewhat shockingly similar. They are being driven by very different reasons, but the way things seem to be going, we still have about 2 more years of slide, then 15-20 years to legitimately be back to 2006-2007 market performance.
    I was just thinking about this this morning. In the US at least, income disparity and several other income distribution metrics are at levels very similar to what was seen directly before the Great Depression.

    Status of Babby: 100% Formed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarminic View Post
    I was just thinking about this this morning. In the US at least, income disparity and several other income distribution metrics are at levels very similar to what was seen directly before the Great Depression.
    If you just replace socialist muslim Obama with a real american you'll start doing better because of taxes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

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    Donor Rudolf Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    If you just replace socialist muslim Obama with a real american you'll start doing better because of taxes.


    this guy should work

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudolf Miller View Post


    this guy should work
    He looks like he's from a hentai. I'd vote for him. China would never see it coming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    This "strongly suggests that QE2 is set to be launched in the very near future," said Samuel Tombes, UK economist at Capital Economics.
    What an idiot, the QE2 was launched in 1967

    Anyway, we're fucked, news at 10. I still maintain it's cos we don't actually do anything that makes money or provides decent jobs for enough people.

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    Al Simmons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    He looks like he's from a hentai. I'd vote for him. China would never see it coming.
    It's from this video:

    [youtube]YV4oYkIeGJc[/youtube]

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    BLEURRRRGH's Avatar
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    I'm moving back to the UK on Saturday for university. Armed with daddy's credit card, I'm planning on doing all I can to help bolster the UK's economy, with the intention of doing a Gordon Brown and saving the world. Spend, spend, spending, here I come

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    evil edna's Avatar
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    still havnt really noticed this recession yet

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    Government spending does not lead to real economic growth except for a few areas.
    Defense, but only up to a certain point, we don't suffer from constant piracy or invasions, so more defense spending won't help.
    Infrastructure spending helps a lot, up to a point. transportation spending won't help us a lot right now, but we need to start replacing a lot of bridges and roads, otherwise the bill will come due all at once.

    Many eastern cities need there water and sewer systems redone, and now, NYC loses 35% of its water due to leakage, this needs to be fixed, and fast, because it is only going to get worse.

    A newer and better electric grid will do more to help the American Economy than anything else. half the electricity produced in the united states is lost as waste energy. if we could fix that, energy prices would plumet. We spend billions of dollars in research to eek out a 1% gain in efficiency from a dryer, but won't fix our damn GRID!

    other than that, there is very little else the federal goverment can do, besides scrapping a lot of the regulations and rewriting them so they aren't a nightmare to navigate.
    Why is is that we won't let refining companies shut down there 1950's era refineries and build newer ones that are safer, much more efficient, and don't constantly leak oil into the envelopment? The EPA is why.

  18. #18
    Al Simmons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccpl_fisher View Post
    Government spending does not lead to real economic growth except for a few areas.
    Defense, but only up to a certain point, we don't suffer from constant piracy or invasions, so more defense spending won't help.
    Infrastructure spending helps a lot, up to a point. transportation spending won't help us a lot right now, but we need to start replacing a lot of bridges and roads, otherwise the bill will come due all at once.

    Many eastern cities need there water and sewer systems redone, and now, NYC loses 35% of its water due to leakage, this needs to be fixed, and fast, because it is only going to get worse.

    A newer and better electric grid will do more to help the American Economy than anything else. half the electricity produced in the united states is lost as waste energy. if we could fix that, energy prices would plumet. We spend billions of dollars in research to eek out a 1% gain in efficiency from a dryer, but won't fix our damn GRID!

    other than that, there is very little else the federal goverment can do, besides scrapping a lot of the regulations and rewriting them so they aren't a nightmare to navigate.
    Why is is that we won't let refining companies shut down there 1950's era refineries and build newer ones that are safer, much more efficient, and don't constantly leak oil into the envelopment? The EPA is why.
    Hey idiot. We are talking about the UK in this thread, not your fucked up bloated corpse of a country.

  19. #19
    Aurora148's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evil edna View Post
    still havnt really noticed this recession yet

  20. #20
    Warpath's Avatar
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    Still waiting to see what Pattern is proposing to fix this? or is he suggesting we follow labours path of using PFI to fix problems like they did with the NHS and hospitals? Which has left 22 or more NHS trusts struggling to pay the loans they are now lumbered with http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15010279

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