Loki VS Proteus for WH PVP

[Wrack]

True things that were said during spergefest:

- You can't kill much with 1 cloaky T3, plan on dualboxing
- Dualboxing a bomber and a combat ship (which can then just be a BC/CS/non-cloaky T3) eliminates the decloaking delay for tackling fast-aligning or cloaky things
- Fully bonused probes are nice
- A single cloaky T3 can't break a pve tengu, except a legion specifically fit to do so
- Proper cloaky proteus DOES have drones (25 mbit bandwidth, 100 m3 bay)
- Proteus + legion is the most potent pair of cloaky T3s at killing things
- Rampro is terrible

[Badboy K]

tbh any time i fly a cloaky ship(t3, pilgrim) and try to gank some ratters i count on npc dps for the target to die....even if i find a target in a belt with finished spawns i engage him in next belt when he gets full agro from npc's....

i just can't dual box, so npc's do a share of dual boxing for me...

would love to see some t3 cloaky fits also, got a cloaky loki fit will post later

[Daneel Trevize]

In w-space there's no certainty that the sleepers will stay on the target and not all switch to you. You can play the gamble of jumping someone when their tank should be at max stretch, but usually they'll have got up speed and frigs&drones going around them, and so simply not getting decloaked until you're in tackle range is hard, even if they probably don't have a point so you can warp if it goes wrong.

My cloaky proteus fit should be in an EON mag edition from a few months back
But it isn't best suited to the neuting changes, and IDK how they actually presented it or my bio

[shoki]

tbh any time i fly a cloaky ship(t3, pilgrim) and try to gank some ratters i count on npc dps for the target to die....even if i find a target in a belt with finished spawns i engage him in next belt when he gets full agro from npc's....

i just can't dual box, so npc's do a share of dual boxing for me...

would love to see some t3 cloaky fits also, got a cloaky loki fit will post later

now where would you find a target that would merrily hop belts with you in local?
do share

[Jack Miton]

True things that were said during spergefest:
- A single cloaky T3 can't break a pve tengu, except a legion specifically fit to do so

it really can....
almost all cloaky loki fits will have a neut and a proteus can be fit with one easily too.

to the op, both loki and prot are excellent WH pvp ships.
i prefer proteus but in a gang, you want a mix of both.

[Daneel Trevize]

You're going to need a 4 mid proteus then, you need mwd, cap booster to run neut + guns, and with any kind of point you won't be slowing an ab tengu at all and probably cant afford to perma-(pulse)mwd instead of just web them. Now you're waiting a while for 1 neut to work so your really weak dps is enough.

Also, this thread, Rampro, some more

[Wrack]

True things that were said during spergefest:
- A single cloaky T3 can't break a pve tengu, except a legion specifically fit to do so

it really can....
almost all cloaky loki fits will have a neut and a proteus can be fit with one easily too.

I recently tackled a tengu in a C2 with a neut+injecting loki, and 1 overheated med neut + ~380 DPS wasn't getting me anywhere. The tengu fit I'd use to run C3s still tanks over 600 dps with a med neut on it.

[Jack Miton]

hell, if youre ganking tengus, just use a hurricane :S

[Daneel Trevize]

WTB covops cloaking cane

[OrangeAfroMan]

How about and Improved cloaking cane that sits in a SS till your bomber gets the initial point?

[Daneel Trevize]

sits in a SS

If it's already in the hostile's system, you have to log it on and land back at your SS to cloak. If it's the other side of the hole you're from, just have it wait there, or risk jumping in and doing a move away from hole + instacloak, but I don't see the advantage. Sure having a cloak on any ship can be nice for after a fight, but not really before if you're attacking.

[Rampro.]

You're going to need a 4 mid proteus then, you need mwd, cap booster to run neut + guns, and with any kind of point you won't be slowing an ab tengu at all and probably cant afford to perma-(pulse)mwd instead of just web them. Now you're waiting a while for 1 neut to work so your really weak dps is enough.

Also, this thread, Rampro, some more

pocket change for me imho

[Rampro.]

[Proteus, Ship]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corelum B-Type Energized Reactive Membrane
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Federation Navy 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Republic Fleet Warp Scrambler
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Medium 'Gattotte' Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 400

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Proteus Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor


Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x10
Warrior II x5


All trolling aside

With low-grade slaves and cx-2 and zgm 1000

160k ehp 30k armour

423 dps

bonused probe rig hopefully be decloaking at 0 anyway

shite propulsion rig but it gives a 4th mid for a booster/web

has a nuet

470dps overheat for 2.3 mins

seems ok

[cillisia]

possible to fit a rep? just thinking you might end up a bit stuck with low armor having to limp back from W-space and find a station to repair

[Tyrus Tenebros]

possible to fit a rep? just thinking you might end up a bit stuck with low armor having to limp back from W-space and find a station to repair

I posted a fit like his in the PvP Proteus thread a bit ago. Not sure the rep fits with a medium neut, but otherwise the fit I ended up with has a 1600 and rep just for that reason (not having to limp home)

[killfalcon]

sits in a SS

If it's already in the hostile's system, you have to log it on and land back at your SS to cloak. If it's the other side of the hole you're from, just have it wait there, or risk jumping in and doing a move away from hole + instacloak, but I don't see the advantage. Sure having a cloak on any ship can be nice for after a fight, but not really before if you're attacking.

It depends on the system. Sometimes you'll get an entrance hole way off d-scan from their tower/ratters, and can move around as you wish. Sometimes the site runners are drunk. v0v

The trick with wormhole PvP is always the information gap. One of my most useful wormholing ships is a 150DPS tengu, because I needed to be able to warp cloaked to a moon and not get stuck in a bubble full of cans and a buzzard couldn't do that. It's made so many supply runs and scouting ops easier it's silly. Knowing if that onyx on d-scan has a pilot in it, and if it does, watching him like a hawk to make sure your buddies haven't been spotted yet... that's the difference between "to dangerous, we'll try tomorrow" and "good work lads, we've got the last cap components in, Carrier in the oven".

[Jaigar]

I'm going to say that tackling with a scanning T3 has 1 huge disadvantage: very low sensor strength. Given that the eWAR subs are even worse (A webbing loki only has 13 sensor strength), you risk tackle using anything but the dissolution. Using the Scanning sub on a proteus gives you a 23.68% chance to be jammed per cycle (Loki is 26.15% and 33% with the webbing sub) with just 5 EC-300s. Thats pretty significant, and wasting a slot on ECCM is something I wouldn't do. And even with the sensor strength subsystem EC-300s still have a 14-15% chance to jam you and the guy gets away free (I really really hate ECM drones)..


And adding 1 T2 scan rig is a good idea. Sometimes that little bit of extra strength lets you lock someone 1 scan early (such as a hulk).


I'll also state that I once jumped 3 drakes in my sleipnir in a C2 hole one time, and the one I ended up tackling was a 29-day old player. This thing was overtanked to hell. Using Repub fleet EMP with 2 gyros and CS5 I had to overheat to break this guy's passive tank which is just stupid.

So be prepared for brick fit drakes.

[pr0lurker]

2 gyros

I see your problem right there, but yeah brick fit Drakes are bordering on stupid and I'd love to see that overtanked pile of shit nerfed one way or the other - remove the drone bay on it or something...