We met with Arnar today

[Marlona Sky]

Trebor: I know X, and I know Y, and X-Y is not very large.

You: I only know Y, and I assert that X-Y is indeed large.

Me: I only know Y, and don't know X. Either way I don't give a fuck about Y or X.

[noobcake]

Me: I only know Y, and don't know X. Either way I don't give a fuck about Y or X.

this is a 100% false statement, and you know it.

[Marlona Sky]

this is a 100% false statement, and you know it.

I know...

[Lana Torrin]

I know...

On the up side, I do get to watch those cats fight on every page you post on.. So keep it up!

[Marlona Sky]

On the up side, I do get to watch those cats fight on every page you post on.. So keep it up!

noobcake my #1 fan!

/puts out more bait

[Helicity]

i think you guys often mistake my 'ego' for simple raw contempt, it's not arrogant to recognize a screaming lunatic for what he is. it might be cruel to poke the lunatic with sticks and insult him, but that's a different character flaw

the posts by bart, virt, yourself and evel are so hilariously off the rails with either misplaced claims of competence (hello mittens let ~me~ tell ~you~ about politics and business - both!) or straightjacketed paranoia that there's no point in engaging in dialogue. that group also forgets that your particular echo chamber ("mad about CCP and unable to accept anything but doomsday theories, posts on FHC") is a population of at most 200 people. the core posters in that group number perhaps 20.

realposting to a troll because the echo chamber phenomenon is an interesting one

what really proves that this group is unsalvagably nuts is how rapidly you turn on even your own candidates as being ~traitors to the cause~ even though they've been in CSM5 (trebor), your now-sainted exemplars, and are supposedly FHC-approved. Trebor tells you useful, good things and your response is to shit your pants and screech at him.

it's like telling someone in the tea party or in an evangelical church that some of their truths are not true p much

I really don't see why you dignify the rampant "omg this csm is so bad" crowd with responses. As much as I am ~mad~ at CCP, I really don't think it's your fault, nor indeed that there is realistically anything you can do to make CCP... well... not be retards.

[Bartholomeus Crane]

i think you guys often mistake my 'ego' for simple raw contempt, it's not arrogant to recognize a screaming lunatic for what he is. it might be cruel to poke the lunatic with sticks and insult him, but that's a different character flaw

the posts by bart, virt, yourself and evel are so hilariously off the rails with either misplaced claims of competence (hello mittens let ~me~ tell ~you~ about politics and business - both!) or straightjacketed paranoia that there's no point in engaging in dialogue. that group also forgets that your particular echo chamber ("mad about CCP and unable to accept anything but doomsday theories, posts on FHC") is a population of at most 200 people. the core posters in that group number perhaps 20.

realposting to a troll because the echo chamber phenomenon is an interesting one

what really proves that this group is unsalvagably nuts is how rapidly you turn on even your own candidates as being ~traitors to the cause~ even though they've been in CSM5 (trebor), your now-sainted exemplars, and are supposedly FHC-approved. Trebor tells you useful, good things and your response is to shit your pants and screech at him.

it's like telling someone in the tea party or in an evangelical church that some of their truths are not true p much

And yet you keep coming back here to reply time and time again to tell us just how much you hold us in contempt, how arrogant you are not, and how much smarter you are than all of us. For all the trolling that you tell everyone you're so good at, who's being trolled here?

And good job on copying CCP's self-affirming attitude as well BTW. "They're only perhaps 20 core posters, who don't really matter! We now what the player's really want!" Keep applying yourself to the 'silent majority' genius. Worked wonders for Nixon didn't it? You sure are funny, if totally predictable ...

Still, although the pathetic attempts at character assassination and self-aggrandising are moderately amusing, I take a leaf out of Hilmar's book and look not so much at the 'predictable reaction', basically ignore what is said, and look more at what is actually done. And thus far, hurf blurf aside, you've been able to achieve diddly squat. Not even for the players who actually voted for you. Hell, not even for the players you paid to vote for you. So whatever genius, have a cookie.

[Dodgy Past]

what really proves that this group is unsalvagably nuts is how rapidly you turn on even your own candidates as being ~traitors to the cause~ even though they've been in CSM5 (trebor), your now-sainted exemplars, and are supposedly FHC-approved. Trebor tells you useful, good things and your response is to shit your pants and screech at him.

it's like telling someone in the tea party or in an evangelical church that some of their truths are not true p much

Or he could reflect on what he's doing different this time around compared with last time.... assuming he actually cares.

If you were going to delve into that deeper you'd also notice that this time around Meissa is more popular, two step is appreciated far more than might have been imagined from the initial greeting he got here and I suspect most people are very satisfied to see Seleene behaving roughly as they expected him to when they voted for him. FWIW I'd also suggest many find you far less obnoxious than they expected to, though that's probably down to their own expectation management

[Donte]

sorry if this question has been asked before.

But what makes you guys think that the devs are actually going to do anything they say?

Its great that the CSM put CCP in the hot-seat over their shenanigans.

But, in the past, CCP has been rather notorious for saying what ever they have to say to get out of the hot-seat while never intending to do any of it.

why back off now? why not keep the roaster going until action is taken?

make ccp put their money where their mouth is, not just let them show it to everyone and have them say it will be :awesome:.

[Virtuozzo]

sorry if this question has been asked before.

But what makes you guys think that the devs are actually going to do anything they say?

Its great that the CSM put CCP in the hot-seat over their shenanigans.

But, in the past, CCP has been rather notorious for saying what ever they have to say to get out of the hot-seat while never intending to do any of it.

why back off now? why not keep the roaster going until action is taken?

make ccp put their money where their mouth is, not just let them show it to everyone and have them say it will be :awesome:.

The short version, is that mittens relies very much on friend contacts. If a brosef says so, it is so. This often is the case, but not necessarily so - as has been demonstrated in the past few months. But, this is the same root problem that has plagued CCP for so long (and still does), if a friend says X, it's cool. All too often, they cannot seperate in a healthy manner between "person" and "position". The CSM as a while is very constricted in what information they can get from CCP, increasingly so. They do have open communications, but since EVE in maintenance mode is subject to business allocation levels above all else, it is a question whether CSM is able to reach out and communicate in meaningful manners with those who make the real decisions. Arnar / Zulu for example is a good point (and an honest point) of contact for the product level, but it is above that level which impacts the course for EVE, the resources available to EVE, and the timeline for EVE.

Which is why you get sillyness like people sneaking in untested content elements in a bugfix patch, or half an expansion cut off because in the end it turns out that the brosef talk was bull, and so forth. Things that are not exceptions, but which have become the rule. Even now parts of CCP pride themselves that they are so good at reserving programming time post patch for weeks. After so many years, one would have thought that at least someone would have asked "guys, since we all went so apeshit over technical debt, would it not be an idea to, you know, like, impose some limits on how much technical debt we can incur? It's only a matter of time before our customers figure shit out again and slap us silly with our own words and then the bosses get emberassed again".

That being said, there is a caveat to make here. It is one thing to pressure CCP by means of the only thing that counts: public exposure. It is another thing to prevent causing structural damage, through overexposure. That is a very fine line to walk for any CSM.

As this CSM chose not for a consistant approach in maintaining transparancy, but only a very selective approach (spotlight), it really only has that (very easily excessive) instrument of throwing stuff in social and gaming networking. That is a very limited tool, as such things are very easy to spiral out of control.

Take for example of how years ago all messaging concerning CCP and EVE was positively trended. These days, that has become largely negatively trended. But that is within the connected communities. Too much exposure of that with too much consistancy can easily create a trending perception. A notion, if you will, in gaming that EVE is not worth it. And that, is averse to what both CCP and CSM and its customers dare to want.

Calling off the media push, was the sensible thing to do. At this point. It is however, something of an instrument which can only be used a few times, before either it has to hit its target or it becomes ineffective. Credibility of source and message is a topic there really. CCP is very much aware of that, it is one reason why they do the madness in incremental tiny steps. Every action will over time by default be met with a decreasing reaction (and not just on this level of exposure management or messaging).

The problem is, that this CSM has no other instruments available to maintain an open arena, other than that which comes down to brosef communications. Which is basically tough and sturdy talk with some, and friendly talk with others, depending on who feeds you what and does as you like (with a dose present also of verifying competence in steps along the way). But that is not because of CCP, that has been a choice made by the current chair. The rest of the CSM has to work within those constraints.

Brosef engineering is nothing other than social engineering 2.0, with the added risk that it is a blade that cuts in more than one way. As we have seen, with CCP taking a walk with CSM statements and opinions, to suit their own opinions and desires, more than once.

[Mike deVoid]

And yet you keep coming back here to reply time and time again to tell us just how much you hold us in contempt, how arrogant you are not, and how much smarter you are than all of us. For all the trolling that you tell everyone you're so good at, who's being trolled here?

And good job on copying CCP's self-affirming attitude as well BTW. "They're only perhaps 20 core posters, who don't really matter! We now what the player's really want!" Keep applying yourself to the 'silent majority' genius. Worked wonders for Nixon didn't it? You sure are funny, if totally predictable ...

At least he still plays the fucking game. You keep coming back and posting :words: to let us all know how ~little~ you care. Yawn.

[Trebor Daehdoow]

Trebor tells you useful, good things and your response is to shit your pants and screech at him.

I am old, and my senses are dulled. I can't smell the shit or hear the high-frequency screeching. I guess that's why I like Failheap so much.

[two step]

sorry if this question has been asked before.

But what makes you guys think that the devs are actually going to do anything they say?

Its great that the CSM put CCP in the hot-seat over their shenanigans.

But, in the past, CCP has been rather notorious for saying what ever they have to say to get out of the hot-seat while never intending to do any of it.

why back off now? why not keep the roaster going until action is taken?

make ccp put their money where their mouth is, not just let them show it to everyone and have them say it will be :awesome:.

I find it amazing the sorts of crazy conclusions you guys are willing to jump to, but you haven't yet figured out what the obvious one is. You have been given 2 pieces of information:
1) We met with Arnar
2) We stopped our media campaign

I would have thought you guys would have figured it out by now, tbh...

[Kate Yeats]

The problem is, that this CSM has no other instruments available to maintain an open arena, other than that which comes down to brosef communications.

Which surprises me as Mittens and the CSM talk often of the carrot failing, but unless it has been all NDA-ed theres no carrot in the CSM minutes. For someone walking in with the resume Mittens has, conflict resolution and strategies for dealing with it should be subtle, plentiful and effective. Maybe that's all happening on skype but the impass with business shows either those strategies don't work when not dealing with like-minded Goons happy to march in step or they don't just plain don't work.

Chairman 'lol I know politics and business' is hitting the same walls as CSM5. The media campaign might work, but that's a blackmail strategy and has nothing to do with Mitten's skills to charm/massage or alter perception.

[definatelynotKKassandra]

I find it amazing the sorts of crazy conclusions you guys are willing to jump to, but you haven't yet figured out what the obvious one is. You have been given 2 pieces of information:
1) We met with Arnar
2) We stopped our media campaign

I would have thought you guys would have figured it out by now, tbh...

You were told something that made you back off, duh. Given that they haven't DONE anything visible to me, the clueless peon. That doesn't address the 'watch what they do, not what they say' concern at all.

Not that I think backing off was the wrong thing to do, but I don't see how you can fail to see why people are still worried that CCP won't actually DO anything about your (and our) concerns.

[Traxio Nacho]

I find it amazing the sorts of crazy conclusions you guys are willing to jump to, but you haven't yet figured out what the obvious one is. You have been given 2 pieces of information:
1) We met with Arnar
2) We stopped our media campaign

I would have thought you guys would have figured it out by now, tbh...

Figured what out? You had a meeting and got told what you wanted to hear........

CCP would never say something one day then a few months later when things have calmed down go and do the opposite or nothing would they?

[Kate Yeats]

I find it amazing the sorts of crazy conclusions you guys are willing to jump to, but you haven't yet figured out what the obvious one is. You have been given 2 pieces of information:
1) We met with Arnar
2) We stopped our media campaign

I would have thought you guys would have figured it out by now, tbh...

What's NDA about 'Eve is getting more devs'?

[edit] I got it! CCP are cancelling WoD!!!! right? right??

[XenosisReaper]

You say things I don't like so you are all lunatics

GG

edit, I actually like most of the CSM, just because they are "FHC Approved" doesn't mean I can't call bullshit when I see bullshit.

That said, I'm fairly sure I haven't raged about the latest meeting yet because I trust theres an actual good reason for the CSM to be so upbeat.

If not...well I don't even play Eve anymore so :welp:

I just love trolling you because it's so easy tbh.

[Virtuozzo]

I am old, and my senses are dulled. I can't smell the shit or hear the high-frequency screeching. I guess that's why I like Failheap so much.

The new car should compensate a little :-)

[two step]

Figured what out? You had a meeting and got told what you wanted to hear........

CCP would never say something one day then a few months later when things have calmed down go and do the opposite or nothing would they?

OMG, you are right. If only we were smart enough to have known of this behavior before we had the meeting!