More secondary crew skills: Radioman down.

[Qui Shon]

But you don't have to give it up. Get next skill as 4th
I actually understand your point, I just don't think its such big deal.

That's because you don't have a 3rd skill underway on a tier 10 tank, or tier 9 med.

So you "understand" neither why giving it up feels like being shafted, nor why training a 4th skill that's more useful hence needed isn't viable.


Stormscions faith in the proper action by WG feels reassuring though

[Torashuu]

Corwyna, you realize consecutive secondary skills cost exponentially more to raise?.
The 3rd secondary is just over 2 mill xp to get to 100%. Thats quite a setback for those who already got it and need to 'delete' it like you suggested.

[RazoR]

The 3rd secondary is just over 2 mill xp to get to 100%.

Why the fuck did i get FF for my IS-3? :rage:

[Torashuu]

Just to be clear, primary skill is 250k, 1st secondary 500k, 2nd secondary 1 mill.

However since most people bought their top crews at 75% the primary is only 110k xp to max.

[RazoR]

Just to be clear, primary skill is 250k, 1st secondary 500k, 2nd secondary 1 mill.

However since most people bought their top crews at 75% the primary is only 110k xp to max.

The fuck?

First secondary is 250k?
And secondaries don't advance without 100% primary.

My KV -> KV-3 -> IS -> IS-3 crew got 756k xp each and are at 45% 3rd secondary skill.

[Torashuu]

Experience needed for the next level can be calculated by by multiplying the next level by 50, 100, 200, or 400 for primary, secondary 1, secondary 2, or secondary 3 skills respectively. For example to get from 68% to 69% in a primary skill you will need 50x69 = 3450xp.

S=n/2 *( a1 + an).
S is total amount of xp for 1-100
n is the level (skill %)
a is the multiplier.

For primary skill:
S = 100/2 *(50*1 + 50*100) = 50*(50 + 5.000) = 252.500
1st sec
S = 100/2 *(100*1 + 100*100) = 50*(100 + 10.000) = 505.000
2nd sec
S = 100/2 *(200*1 + 200*100) = 50*(200 + 20.000) = 1.010.000
3rd sec
S = 100/2 *(400*1 + 400*100) = 50*(400 + 40.000) = 2.020.000

However, if wiki is one multiplier too high its one step back basically.

Edit: For Razor IS-3, assume start at 75%, one step down from Wiki multiplier. So 25-50-100-200 instead of 50-100-200-400

For primary skill:
S = 25/2 *(25*75 + 25*100) = 12,5*(1.875 + 2.500) = 54.687,5
1st sec
S = 100/2 *(50*1 + 50*100) = 50*(50 + 5.000) = 252.500
2nd sec
S = 100/2 *(100*1 + 100*100) = 50*(100 + 10.000) = 505.000
3rd sec
S = 45/2 *(200*1 + 200*45) = 22,5*(200 + 9.000) = 207.000

Total is still over 1 mill.

Either I fail at math, razor fails at math or the wiki is wrong, or any combination of those. Only constant is WoT mechanics are not clear. :P

[Corwyna]

Corwyna, you realize consecutive secondary skills cost exponentially more to raise?.
The 3rd secondary is just over 2 mill xp to get to 100%. Thats quite a setback for those who already got it and need to 'delete' it like you suggested.

Yes. And I do realize I'm heavily biased 'cause of my opinion on firefighting skill (for my purposes I consider it useless, so wouldn't have any problems deleting it, don't care if its 2 or 20 mill XP). I never actively pursued 3rd spec, it was just sideffect of having fun in some tanks.

After rethinking things, Storm is highly likely right and all skills will be deleted and XP reimbursed when new ones hit the server. It looks like right thing to do not to piss off customers that actually do care about that kind of thing.

I still fail to see 'setback' part cause how can you feel loss on something you never had (new skills)? It is purely rhetorical question, please end debate here.

[Tordin Varglund]

itt: zzzzz

[Stormscion]

Just to be clear, primary skill is 250k, 1st secondary 500k, 2nd secondary 1 mill.

However since most people bought their top crews at 75% the primary is only 110k xp to max.

hmmm i have third secondary at 98 % and crew has ~1.1 milion xp , i think by 1.5 i will have 100% for sure so i dont think it is exactly like that , but it is A LOT 1000+ games minimum with 1000+ avg xp done in them and having that same crew from previous tanks as well.

itt: zzzzz

ignore him he is trolling

[Torashuu]

I calculated it based of the numbers the WoT wiki gave me, however all empirical evidence suggest either my method it wrong, which I doubt or the wiki is.

So 1.1 mill is 3rd sec at 98% and 756k is 45% for 3rd secondary.

If I use 25-50-75-100 multiplier it comes alot closer, Then its 788k calculated for Razors crew and 1,17 mill for stormscions crew.

That would make the total needed:
Primary
S = 25/2 *(25*75 + 25*100) = 12,5*(1.875 + 2.500) = 54.687,5
1st sec
S = 100/2 *(50*1 + 50*100) = 50*(50 + 5.000) = 252.500
2nd sec
S = 100/2 *(75*1 + 75*100) = 50*(75 + 7.500) = 378.750
3rd sec
S = 100/2 *(100*1 + 100*100) = 50*(100 + 10.000) = 505.000

With a total of ~1.2 mill xp. for a full 3 secondary crew.

That make more sense to you guys?

[Stormscion]

wiki is outdate and often wrong about stuff , so ...

that number sounds about right , i will actually ask buddy that has 100% crew

edit
he says he played 20 to 30 games after he got 100% crew and he has almost 1.4 mil
so yea it is somewhere between 1.25 to 1.35 million.

[Torashuu]

Since you lose a bit if you transfer crews without gold retrain actual XP needed would be a bit higher yes. I'd guess the wiki has the multipliers wrong then.

[Mashie Saldana]

With a total of ~1.2 mill xp. for a full 3 secondary crew.

That make more sense to you guys?

That is more or less correct according to this thread
Remember that double XP doesn't show up but is still calculated for the crew skill. Hence why you will have a lower number according to the stats than what actually is used in the forumla.

[Qui Shon]

That is more or less correct according to this thread
Remember that double XP doesn't show up but is still calculated for the crew skill. Hence why you will have a lower number according to the stats than what actually is used in the forumla.

And 1.7m xp for the fourth skill alone, when they are introduced and if they follow the same progression, or ~3.4m from 75% basic to full fourth secondary. Which is why nobody will have a fourth skill to 100% for like a year.

[Ulstan]

I dunno, I have been assiduously avoiding training skills on most of my tanks beyond repair because they seem so useless ( Camo on a tier 9 heavy? Fire fighting on anything? ) and I figured they would introduce more later.

I wouldn't mind if my correct prediction gave me a head start over other people who had to grind them out from scratch, but I do see how it could be rage inducing

[Qui Shon]

Not just rage inducing, but downright...I don't even know what word to use. The scale of the xp figures needed, grow by such absurd amounts, it basically makes it impossible to get fourth skill up for practical purposes. Yes someone will one day get it, but it's simply too much. I also have + showing on many tier 7 to tier 10 crews (IS-4, T29, T32, Löwe) but it doesn't make it okay to screw over my best crew.

Camo used to be significant on IS-3 and IS-4 btw, but not KT. That might've changed since then though.

[Ulstan]

One of my continuing complaints about the game is how much necessary information is hidden from you. The whole spotting system is shrouded in opacity for new players, and they seem to make an effort from letting you find out the camo values on tanks.

The russian IS series seems to have pretty good camo, german heavies not so much. American heavies seem to stick out like a sore thumb. But I have no idea what the actual numbers are - it's all just subjective feelings - which bug me.

[Stormscion]

Comment from Storm ( developer ) :

When we will implement new skills, all players will get their tankist' skills resetted, but their experience will remain. Therefore you will be able to get the same amount of skills back, even if you choose new ones.

-

So i was right when i argued that they will just reset what we got up to now. But they will add gold reset anyway if you in the future change your mind about skills ... That makes sense

Because skill reset for gold is comming next patch apparently but new skills ( and free skill reset ) is not comming YET , dont use that feature if you want to save gold

[Qui Shon]

Wohooo!!

Cheers for info.

[Stormscion]

examples from overlord for the skills :

Approximately 10 for each specialization. E.g. for commander - ability to see critical damage inflicted, extra exp for the crew, effective replacement of damaged crew members, view range bonus when optics is damaged etc.

for loader : Bonus HP for ammor rack, x% chance of instant reloading when switching to another ammo type