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Thread: Gun Thread (AK appreciation)

  1. #4581
    Liare's Avatar
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    i was the ammo negro m8, and that, full pack, M/95, 6 mags and 2 grenades. full kit is like 45kg all told with like 12-18kg in the combat pack, though you have to remember the guard is a force protection/guerilla style force so we're not going on patrols in all that junk, but even then the MG team was always the slowest of the pack, while regular riflemen would typically have additional MG ammo, Gustav ammo or 1 shot AT launcher (AT-4 basically) or be one of the poor sods with LSV's (L86 equivalents basically, we had 1 MG-3 and 2 LSV's per section back then)

    MG's back then was a two man team, with everybody expected to chip in with additional belts, the new M60E6's are apparently being run as 1 man jobbies with just a ammo monkey handing over boxes as needed, with 3 per section, it sounds fucking wonderful tbh.

    as i have written about before, our MG team was especially odd "my" gunner was a gal, about 160 cm high, so the MG held stock-on-the-ground on the ground almost reached her chin, the whole thing looking hillariously loopsided when out and about, she was/is very good shot with those things tho, it takes a bit of talent to be able to plunk targets past 700 meters with just iron sights and that rate of fire, on the flip side you get to guess who got to carry the lions share of the kit.

    the company captain kept talking about "smallest person, biggest gun, it makes it harder to hit the gunner" but i suspect part of the arrangement was the comedic value of the whole thing, because she always seemed to end up with the tallest available assistants.
    Last edited by Liare; January 23 2019 at 09:14:06 PM.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  2. #4582
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    mfw westerners try to reinvent PKM


  3. #4583
    Liare's Avatar
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    nothing wrong with the PKM from the folks i know in the army who cross-trained with poles, they basically wanted to break into the armory and steal them.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  4. #4584
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Exactly.

    Like, there was one thing that came close but got dropped in it's infancy with all the awkward quirks - stoner 63.
    Trying to lighten machined bricks works but it's expensive.

  5. #4585
    Liare's Avatar
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    both the MG-3 and the FN MAG are largely stamped guns m8.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  6. #4586
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    MG-3 is just a bit overbuilt and MAG? Idk man, idk.


  7. #4587
    Liare's Avatar
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    the MG-3 is designed for a different sort of war and basically 2 generations behind at this point, the MAG is all stamping and rivets with a polymer stock tho.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  8. #4588
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    the MG-3 is designed for a different sort of war
    So is PKM.

    Der totale krieg.

  9. #4589
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    the MG-3 is designed for a different sort of war
    So is PKM.

    Der totale krieg.
    the PKM is very much designed with modern mechanized warfare in mind Razor, it's lighter build because it doesn't have to fulfil the now functionally non-existent MMG role of a tripod mounted long range suppression tool as exemplified by the Feldlafette mounting for the MG3.

    nor does it have to deal with the double edged sword that is the 900-1500 RPM, on one hand nothing short of a recoiless rifle can "shout down" a MG3, they can and will establish fire superiority over basically everything else given the opportunity, on the other hand the ammunition consumption is terrifying, the belt-system is severely dated at this point and the whole gun is heavy, the design cumbersome ergonomically by modern standards and so forth.

    the PKM and the MAG is designed for the sort of war we'd have in Europe during the cold war, the MG3 is very much a WW2 era gun rechambered, it's very good at what it does, but what it does is not really precisely what's needed.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  10. #4590
    Movember 2012 Elriche Oshego's Avatar
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    I am also autiste.

  11. #4591
    Movember 2012 I Legionnaire's Avatar
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    I don't think we carried more than 800rnds per gun on dismounted patrols while I was in Afhganistan. MMGs in light infantry platoons really only exist to provide suppressing fire until artillery or air support get on target

  12. #4592
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    idk are you saying PKM can't be mounted on tripods or smth



    also have you heard about our lord and saviour NSV?



    soviet stuff was designed to be as flexible as possible, that's why some had to be light
    Last edited by RazoR; January 24 2019 at 01:04:18 AM.

  13. #4593
    Movember '11 Ginger Excellence Movember 2011Movember 2012 sarabando's Avatar
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    Stoner LMG > all

  14. #4594
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarabando View Post
    Stoner bolt group > all
    fyp

    Stoner 62 has a truckload of quirks that have to be ironed out. That said pentagon spent half a century with heads up their asses not ordering that.

  15. #4595
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    idk are you saying PKM can't be mounted on tripods or smth



    also have you heard about our lord and saviour NSV?



    soviet stuff was designed to be as flexible as possible, that's why some had to be light
    no, i am saying that there's a difference between what the PKM can do on a tripod compared to a MG3. the PKM is mounted fixed in place on the tripod, the MG3's are free floated on it and include a set of gimmicks like limited indirect fire capability and what have you, the MG3 can also sustain a higher total volume of fire because it still had to slot into the sort of combat role that maxim guns filled in WW2.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  16. #4596
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    the PKM is mounted fixed in place on the tripod, the MG3's are free floated on it
    i... what?



    you want 5:00
    Last edited by RazoR; January 24 2019 at 01:44:47 PM.

  17. #4597
    Liare's Avatar
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    is that the standard tripod ? i was told the one used by the PKM basically fixed it in place rather than free-floating the gun, meaning the whole mount is affected by recoil rather than the gun sitting in carriage that recoils separately without affecting the tripod.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  18. #4598
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    oh, THAT



    as you can see the recoil is barely enough to rattle the setup


    Furthermore, Maxim had the same ROF - around 600. So PKM literally does everything it can sans water-cooling. Which MG-34/42 also didn't have.
    Last edited by RazoR; January 24 2019 at 01:52:49 PM.

  19. #4599
    Liare's Avatar
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    except it doesn't actually does sustained fire for thousands upon thousands of rounds the way maxims do, even swapping barrels heat eventually gets into the action and you gotta stop firing, or you get a runaway gun, the MG-3's go for significantly longer, but weigh more as a result, it's not a meaningful distinction in modern usage, hence my point with the MG-3's being build for the last war, with the PKM's being build for the cold war style conflict.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  20. #4600
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    I think the most exhausting documented use of PKM occured on Hill 3234. That was a 39/51 against 200+ battle that raged for 14 hours, 9th was fully stocked for holding an entrenched position and then resupplied mid-night.
    Not saying MG42 would give out before PKM but that's about as intense as any WW2 battle.

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