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Thread: Status of emergency summit minutes?

  1. #61
    noobcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helicity View Post
    Since I'm now unbanned, just forward me the unedited notes so I can release them for you and be re-banned post-haste :P
    i fully endorse this product or service


    Quote Originally Posted by Kate Yeats View Post
    It is called a difference of opinion and if you're going to get so shirty about it, you might want to cancel your connection to the internet.




  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by definatelynotKKassandra View Post
    WHERE IS MINUTES

    (Couldn't resist, sorry).

    What actions will the CSM take if they have been unable to reach agreement with CCP over the content of the minutes in say, a week?
    Quote Originally Posted by Helicity View Post
    Since I'm now unbanned, just forward me the unedited notes so I can release them for you and be re-banned post-haste :P
    Gonna address these two together. Right now, the issue that *all* of the CSM have with the minutes is that CCP made edits that we don't feel reflect what actually happened at the summit. I'm not sure who you would blame for that, basically it is both of us holding up the minutes release at this point.

    If they don't get posted soonish, we will be communicating our displeasure in a more public way. One option would be to release the notes, which as CCP Xhagen mentioned, were initially produced in this case by CCP, so they shouldn't have NDA'd material. We aren't going to let CCP just release whatever they want to release.

    Glad to hear you are unbanned Helicity, your ban was entirely unfair, IMHO.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by two step View Post
    I'm trying to get some other CSM's to do this, especially the ones ahead of me on the list....
    You can release them and let the blame attributed to one of them.
      Spoiler:
    Wait until the new version of the forums are released, take advantage of glaring security breaches and publish the list using one of the other CSMs characters. We'll get our minutes, they'll get sacked and you'll become slightly more senior. We all profit.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by two step View Post
    If they don't get posted soonish, we will be communicating our displeasure in a more public way.

    sorry, but three months to "communicate" your displeasure in a more "public way"...that's just poor. These minutes should have been hammered out within a week. This controversy is almost as grand as the NGE, not in similarities because of changes to the game, but in similarities in the way both companies took blatant advantage of its customers and said "yeh they'll be ok with us taking a massive shit on them, and if theyre not, they can be replaced"

    These meeting minutes should ALWAYS be priority number 1. CCP's reluctance to treat them as such just goes to show how highly (read: lowly) they think of you guys in the CSM. They are looking to play the victim role here, and know you wont approve anything they edit into the minutes. The longer this charade goes on, the less and less credibility both entities have.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kate Yeats View Post
    It is called a difference of opinion and if you're going to get so shirty about it, you might want to cancel your connection to the internet.




  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by two step View Post
    If they don't get posted soonish, we will be communicating our displeasure in a more public way. O
    Forgive my curtness, but when exactly is "soonish"? I think the CSM should set a definitive date. You guys aren't CCP after all.

  6. #66
    XenosisReaper
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    Quote Originally Posted by noobcake View Post
    sorry, but three months to "communicate" your displeasure in a more "public way"...that's just poor. These minutes should have been hammered out within a week. This controversy is almost as grand as the NGE, not in similarities because of changes to the game, but in similarities in the way both companies took blatant advantage of its customers and said "yeh they'll be ok with us taking a massive shit on them, and if theyre not, they can be replaced"

    These meeting minutes should ALWAYS be priority number 1. CCP's reluctance to treat them as such just goes to show how highly (read: lowly) they think of you guys in the CSM. They are looking to play the victim role here, and know you wont approve anything they edit into the minutes. The longer this charade goes on, the less and less credibility both entities have.
    I'm sorry, did you just compare incarna to NGE?

    What the fuck are you smoking.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisReaper View Post
    I'm sorry, did you just compare incarna to NGE?

    What the fuck are you smoking.
    hey.....sup....I'm comparing the way both companies feel that their customer base is replaceable, and dont feel the need to cater to their veterans anymore.

    I didnt say "OMG THIS IS THEIR NGE, EVE IS DOOMED"....but to look at the events in the days and weeks after incarna (player protests, forum threadnoughts, mass unsubs) and NOT think about the NGE would be a little shortsighted.

    I lived through the NGE and will say with absolute certainty that no decision any gaming company can make about their MMO would EVER equal what happened during the NGE. But it'd be naive of people to say that there arent some similarities in SoE's and CCPs handling of the customer base during a crisis. Right down to the troll emails (in SoE's case, it was Smedley's arrogant "stay the course" press release) released by both figureheads.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kate Yeats View Post
    It is called a difference of opinion and if you're going to get so shirty about it, you might want to cancel your connection to the internet.




  8. #68
    XenosisReaper
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    Eh, I don't take much notice of what happens on the forums because less than 5% of the playerbase actually post there, the player protests were done by forum splergers and people who liked the pretty lightshow and the mass unsubs never actually happened.

    All in all, I'm getting a bit tired with all the fucking butthurt shitsplerging about what is essentially a good spaceship game with some vanity/totally optional MT's on the side.

  9. #69
    XenosisReaper
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Forgot to take you medicine again?
    trolls trolling trolls etc

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mynxee View Post
    Be a rebel, two step. Release them as is (or rather, as the CSM wish them to be released), and resign! You'll be a hero.
    Unfortunately, two step is not interested in being a hero. He's interested in running next year for a full-fledged seat on the CSM (he's an alternate now iirc). Politicians never want to do the right thing, they only want to say the right thing.

    Rocking the boat isn't in his DNA, as evidenced by his responses a few months ago when I suggested the CSM walk out of the emergency summit in protest if things went badly in Rek.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmac View Post
    Unfortunately, two step is not interested in being a hero. He's interested in running next year for a full-fledged seat on the CSM (he's an alternate now iirc). Politicians never want to do the right thing, they only want to say the right thing.

    Rocking the boat isn't in his DNA, as evidenced by his responses a few months ago when I suggested the CSM walk out of the emergency summit in protest if things went badly in Rek.
    Or maybe I think you are dumb, and don't think walking out would have solved anything at all.

    I know the "resign in protest" thing seems to be big with some folks, but can one of you point out a single time in RL history when that has actually done something constructive? If the issue is CCP not caring about what the CSM says, WTF would they care if some or all of us resign?

    As for the next CSM election, we will see. I certainly understand why lots of folks don't run for re-election after a term on the CSM, and pre-CSM5 the terms were 6 months.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by two step View Post
    I know the "resign in protest" thing seems to be big with some folks, but can one of you point out a single time in RL history when that has actually done something constructive.
    Geoffrey Howe's resignation could be argued to have sparked the process to get rid of Margaret Thatcher?

    Not that I think it would be a good idea for the CSM to resign in protest atm. It is very much a nuclear option that can only be used once and probably won't achieve anything.

    I still think you need ot make some firm public commitments though. 'Soonish' is the kind of thing CCP would say.

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by two step View Post
    Or maybe I think you are dumb, and don't think walking out would have solved anything at all.
    Maybe, but your continued refusal to see that walking out can be a very effective negotiating tactic boggles my mind. In hindsight, the CSM walking out of that emergency summit would have accomplished MUCH more than the apathy and indifference that have, 2 MONTHS LATER, been the only result.

  14. #74
    XenosisReaper
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmac View Post
    Maybe, but your continued refusal to see that walking out can be a very effective negotiating tactic boggles my mind. In hindsight, the CSM walking out of that emergency summit would have accomplished MUCH more than the apathy and indifference that have, 2 MONTHS LATER, been the only result.
    No, because then the CSM alternates would have taken their place OR CCP would have just not given a fuck and carried on.
    CSM has no voting power withing CCP's decision making process, walking out would accomplish nothing other than removing our singular inside line to CCP.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmac View Post
    Maybe, but your continued refusal to see that walking out can be a very effective negotiating tactic boggles my mind. In hindsight, the CSM walking out of that emergency summit would have accomplished MUCH more than the apathy and indifference that have, 2 MONTHS LATER, been the only result.
    Ultimatums and resignations are for the weak and accomplish nothing, which an even cursory investigation of past resignations would tell you. Teenagers and fools think they're great, though.

    I'm about to let the cat out of the bag on the minutes controversy and begin turning some screws on CCP. The carrot has failed, it's sticktime.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by a mitten View Post
    Ultimatums and resignations are for the weak and accomplish nothing, which an even cursory investigation of past resignations would tell you. Teenagers and fools think they're great, though.

    I'm about to let the cat out of the bag on the minutes controversy and begin turning some screws on CCP. The carrot has failed, it's sticktime.

    I thought the CSM was mostly pleased coming out of the summit, whats left to get worked up about?

  17. #77
    XenosisReaper
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leboe View Post
    I thought the CSM was mostly pleased coming out of the summit, whats left to get worked up about?
    That was the PR line before they realized that CCP don't give a fuck about them

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisReaper View Post
    That was the PR line before they realized that CCP don't give a fuck about them
    you don't know shit and should prob kill yourself

  19. #79
    Super Ponerator Global Moderator Evelgrivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a mitten View Post
    Ultimatums and resignations are for the weak and accomplish nothing, which an even cursory investigation of past resignations would tell you. Teenagers and fools think they're great, though.

    I'm about to let the cat out of the bag on the minutes controversy and begin turning some screws on CCP. The carrot has failed, it's sticktime.
    With CCP's demonstrably PR driven product line, I hope you plan to beat them over the head along similar, PR related tangents. Good luck changing things for the better, though; you're going to need it.

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leboe View Post
    I thought the CSM was mostly pleased coming out of the summit, whats left to get worked up about?
    I would assume that they were happy with what was agreed at the summit (or what they thought was agreed ), but are now getting irritated by CCP trying to either twist what they said was 'okay' into a broader statement than they intended, or weasel out of commitments CCP made at the time but now wish they hadn't.

    Note I said ASSUME mittens, please don't tell me to kill myself if I'm wrong. I'm not sure my fragile mind could take it.

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