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Thread: I don't need sanity, work in IT (thread) every day

  1. #8421
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Digital marketing is literally one of the easiest jobs to be good at. If you have a problem there is almost definitely a bit of software which will deal with it or a blog written on how to approach it. Or you can just trial and error everything because you aren't doing open heart surgery and if you get something wrong it literally doesn't matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  2. #8422
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Your marketing automation suite should be doing all that for you.
    Hahahahahahahaha.. Like he's even thought of getting a proper one, or even enabling half the things in the half assed one we do have. They have managed to get the IP of the 'service' they use blacklisted almost every month this year. I'm more than happy for them not to be using any of our internet stuff for this as he is completely incompetent and the team he's running don't really care about getting blacklisted.

    And before you ask how he still has a job, hes a good people person, in that hes good at making the other managers feel like hes doing a good job even though hes not doing a good job. He's also one of the longest serving employees, so hes well practiced in this. (And no I'm not high enough up the food chain to survive pointing this out to anyone)
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  3. #8423

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    [...] Or you can just trial and error everything because you aren't doing open heart surgery and if you get something wrong it literally doesn't matter.
    If people would only do that. I'd rather help someone who fucked up his machine/software while actually trying out how something might work (better), than the standard "I have no clue, I'm not working in IT*)."

    I'm talking about people that literally don't know to operate a Windows 'File open' or 'Save as' dialog.

    *) This ofc implies the ever so present assumption that we people in IT now how to properly operate every. single. piece. of software that ever exists, because, ya know "you work in IT"

  4. #8424

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    a question to the it crowd:

    It's 2018. Why are we still statically assigning IP's to servers (except DC's and other exceptions) ?
    I'm starting to think it's Literally a waste of time.
    Please don't teach me what to do with my pc.

  5. #8425

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    Amusingly I've just shouted at some of our engineers for not getting some static IPs for a service, but that's a public facing cloud service. They're struggling with the idea our customers might not be best pleased about being asked to add URLs to their firewall config.

    But yes, stop assigning IPs. It's stupid and silly and serves almost no purpose at all. It's a hangover from the bad old days where servers were loved family pets to be nurtured and cared for, rather than livestock to be shot and disposed of at a moment's notice.
    Last edited by elmicker; November 9 2018 at 04:37:12 PM.

  6. #8426
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itiken View Post
    a question to the it crowd:

    It's 2018. Why are we still statically assigning IP's to servers (except DC's and other exceptions) ?
    I'm starting to think it's Literally a waste of time.
    idk, why are you?

    2018: Still having servers...
    meh

  7. #8427
    Donor halbarad's Avatar
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    One day I'd like to reach the point where I don't care about the servers name or IP address and just know there's x of them that do y role.

    Until then we've still got almost all pets here but not with static ip addresses (that I'm aware of).

  8. #8428

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    There's a few reasons I can think of:

    - Netwok segmentation/grouping
    You want to keep your servers in one IP range, your printers in one, your clients in another.

    - Shitty DHCP implementations
    I've experienced devices (e.g. SOHO routers) that a) stop handing our new addresses after a lease expired or b) hand out duplicate addresses. You can live with that for a printer or client. But a server with no or duplicate IP address ... nah, better not.

    - Eliminating one (two, in fact) additional point of failures
    The above mentioned DHCP is one additional point of failure, DNS is another one. Both DNS client and server side. The client's local DNS cache might still point to the old IP address, if a server has received a new one. Ot the DNS server hasn't been properly update with the new IP and points requests to the old IP.

  9. #8429
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    There's a few reasons I can think of:

    - Netwok segmentation/grouping
    You want to keep your servers in one IP range, your printers in one, your clients in another.

    - Shitty DHCP implementations
    I've experienced devices (e.g. SOHO routers) that a) stop handing our new addresses after a lease expired or b) hand out duplicate addresses. You can live with that for a printer or client. But a server with no or duplicate IP address ... nah, better not.

    - Eliminating one (two, in fact) additional point of failures
    The above mentioned DHCP is one additional point of failure, DNS is another one. Both DNS client and server side. The client's local DNS cache might still point to the old IP address, if a server has received a new one. Ot the DNS server hasn't been properly update with the new IP and points requests to the old IP.
    None of these things actually requires statically assigning IPs, but that said, I totally feel you with regards to the quality of DHCP server implementations (I could tell you stories about Cisco’s wonderfully shitty version someday).
    meh

  10. #8430

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    Shitty setup and shitty technicans I guess.

    I used dynamically assigned IP addresses in one of my earlier jobs in IT operations. Worked fine given correct configuration and supporting infrastructure. We used SCVMM for the magic.

  11. #8431
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    For the most part it's still useful for firewall rules as most smb equipment can only deal with IP addressing in their tables. You know unless you dont bother with firewalls for outgoing traffic and just let your stuff do what it wants. You can of course get around this with better equipment but that usually comes at a cost that SMBs just can't afford when there is next to no actual benefit. (I would love NSX but you try justifying the cost in an environment of about a dozen VMs)

    I'm not for example going to go through the trouble of setting up the one file server we have so I can redeploy it with a click of a button. I AM going to put the data on seperate disks so if I need to I can build a new server and just move the disks, but it's going to be a manual thing. Same with the 2 SQL servers we have (running different versions of SQL for reasons).. The environment just isnt big enough to warrant the extra work setting up and maintaining the whole cattle approach for severs.

    Now having said that we are about to start testing VDI and im absolutely going to be doing it that way. Screw having the users deploy patches, screw keeping a billion copies (or 60) of the same VM with only slight differences in software configuration. Screw having to reimage PCs because the idiot user click on some link that none of the 3 layers of antivirus we have in place picked up.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  12. #8432

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    For the most part it's still useful for firewall rules as most smb equipment can only deal with IP addressing in their tables.
    This is pretty much the only reason i can come up with.
    As we are moving towards a new domain next year, and rebuilding all servers we actually need onto it, then I think we are going to try out DHCP'ing all the servers. It's just one less thing to worry about.

    Anything that needs special firewall rules will need to be dealt with properly, but as part of the new build we are doing 'proper' network perimitering anyway, so there shouldn't be any inbound/outbound traffic from the core network any more, everything goes through application proxies on the DMZ's. Most firewalls only resoive IP's at compile/commit time which causes fun.

    Definitely worth a punt as i'm fucking sick if shitty ipam's being out of date because it's shitty php shite and fails to scan / keep up with the glacial network.

    Shitty setup and shitty technicans I guess.
    Please don't teach me what to do with my pc.

  13. #8433
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itiken View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    For the most part it's still useful for firewall rules as most smb equipment can only deal with IP addressing in their tables.
    This is pretty much the only reason i can come up with.
    As we are moving towards a new domain next year, and rebuilding all servers we actually need onto it, then I think we are going to try out DHCP'ing all the servers. It's just one less thing to worry about.

    Anything that needs special firewall rules will need to be dealt with properly, but as part of the new build we are doing 'proper' network perimitering anyway, so there shouldn't be any inbound/outbound traffic from the core network any more, everything goes through application proxies on the DMZ's. Most firewalls only resoive IP's at compile/commit time which causes fun.

    Definitely worth a punt as i'm fucking sick if shitty ipam's being out of date because it's shitty php shite and fails to scan / keep up with the glacial network.

    Shitty setup and shitty technicans I guess.
    I mean, even for DMZ stuff, I'd still use a NAT pool, but there are variable things here. I'd just like to point out to Lana that on the evil cloud, I tightly control all my egress traffic and ingress traffic like I would on hardware, but without ever having to enter an IP address. You can get there even on SME sized hardware but yeah, some brands automate better than others.
    meh

  14. #8434
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    As evil as cloud is, you actually have the tools to do this in place so it's a lot easier and better. I don't hate cloud I just hate the cloud everything mentality. It's a really good tool that when implemented properly is invaluable. But it's not the silver bullet of IT.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  15. #8435
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    As evil as cloud is, you actually have the tools to do this in place so it's a lot easier and better. I don't hate cloud I just hate the cloud everything mentality. It's a really good tool that when implemented properly is invaluable. But it's not the silver bullet of IT.
    No, the "implemented properly" qualifier is p important.
    meh

  16. #8436
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    It's a hangover from the bad old days where servers were loved family pets to be nurtured and cared for, rather than livestock to be shot and disposed of at a moment's notice
    Don't you dare go near my NeXT W3C httpd server EVER

    *pets black dusty box humming at a comfortable 85 decibles*

    The bad man will never get to you

  17. #8437
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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    It's a hangover from the bad old days where servers were loved family pets to be nurtured and cared for, rather than livestock to be shot and disposed of at a moment's notice
    Don't you dare go near my NeXT W3C httpd server EVER

    *pets black dusty box humming at a comfortable 85 decibles*

    The bad man will never get to you
    *looks at stack of old 2800 series power edge servers*

    no, the bad man wont get to you, i promise!
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  18. #8438
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    As evil as cloud is, you actually have the tools to do this in place so it's a lot easier and better. I don't hate cloud I just hate the cloud everything mentality. It's a really good tool that when implemented properly is invaluable. But it's not the silver bullet of IT.
    No, the "implemented properly" qualifier is p important.
    It is, I've seen some terrible cloud implementations that cause far more issues than they solve. I've seen admins that have no idea how those whole network access thing works and just set it to allow all traffic, and then wonder why they are hosting spambots.. I've even seen an actually proper elastic web app get deployed at a huge cost, only to have it never scales past 1 tiny instance because it gets hit about 3 or 4 times in a month..

    My favorite cloud project I was ever involved in (and fortunately I was just a worker drone doing the basic level building as it wasn't my project or client) was to shove a legacy desktop app in to AWS. The vendor even told us they had assisted 4 other companies to migrate the app to AWS previously and while all 4 were successful, within 6 months all 4 had reverted back to on-prem as the app just didnt run well in the cloud.

    Turns out it didnt run well because it connects to about 4 billion databases across the company and across external vendors, all of which needed to respond reasonably quickly. First processing run it did after being migrated took 17 hours (it usually took about 15 mins). Adjustments were made and they (because I wasnt involved in that bit) got the time down to under 10 hours.. The solution they came up with? Cloud the databases. Ok cool, done.. Didn't take long.. Now its processing time is down to under an hour which is fine. But now we have about 2 dozen apps that used to be running in the same infrastructure as their databases running on the other side of the country. They are now ALL running like shit.

    The solution was obvious.. Cloud the apps! OK done.. Some of them run on OSs that AWS doesnt support but if we dont tell them and we keep quiet about the licensing we got them all working.. Nice. Now they all run so much better.. But now they are running on the other side of the country than the users.. So now we have to CLOUD THE USERS!! (ie, implement workspaces).

    Turns out that after budgeting for moving a single app and having to move 20+, plus hundreds of databses, plus setting up a whole workspaces infrastructure and then setting up the actual workspaces, quite a lot of them being 3d accelerated workspaces, and then the file storage space for all of those users (because having that local also made everything slow).. The cost of the project and the running cost FAR exceeded estimations and also FAR exceeded just purchasing 2 new vmware hosts and dumping the old VM on to the new hardware (and continuing to pay for rack space that they continued to have to pay for either way anyway).

    Rolled back in 8 months.. So I guess they did 2 months longer than anyone else.

    My point was even with a 'proper' implementation this would have still been a bad choice of things to push to the cloud. The only benefit it offered was potentially paying less for rack space (which in the end it didn't even mange to do because of the stupid contract they had signed 3 years previous) and the costs were stupidly high. The 'correct' solution for this would have been a hardware upgrade and likely nothing more. It would have been significantly cheaper and quicker and they would have ended up with the same result they had. Clouding this app was not the solution.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  19. #8439

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    We have 3 users domains at the moment, providing linked, hybrid then cloud migrated email accounts to Office365.
    Our next magic trick is to stop using the user domain account and instead use the currently disabled resource domain account, converting it to the main user account.

    Just the thought of fucking about with userprincipalname, cloud anchor and immutableID en masse is already giving me a headache but it is doable.
    Last edited by Itiken; November 13 2018 at 11:25:08 AM.
    Please don't teach me what to do with my pc.

  20. #8440
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    As evil as cloud is, you actually have the tools to do this in place so it's a lot easier and better. I don't hate cloud I just hate the cloud everything mentality. It's a really good tool that when implemented properly is invaluable. But it's not the silver bullet of IT.
    No, the "implemented properly" qualifier is p important.
    It is, I've seen some terrible cloud implementations that cause far more issues than they solve. I've seen admins that have no idea how those whole network access thing works and just set it to allow all traffic, and then wonder why they are hosting spambots.. I've even seen an actually proper elastic web app get deployed at a huge cost, only to have it never scales past 1 tiny instance because it gets hit about 3 or 4 times in a month..

    My favorite cloud project I was ever involved in (and fortunately I was just a worker drone doing the basic level building as it wasn't my project or client) was to shove a legacy desktop app in to AWS. The vendor even told us they had assisted 4 other companies to migrate the app to AWS previously and while all 4 were successful, within 6 months all 4 had reverted back to on-prem as the app just didnt run well in the cloud.

    Turns out it didnt run well because it connects to about 4 billion databases across the company and across external vendors, all of which needed to respond reasonably quickly. First processing run it did after being migrated took 17 hours (it usually took about 15 mins). Adjustments were made and they (because I wasnt involved in that bit) got the time down to under 10 hours.. The solution they came up with? Cloud the databases. Ok cool, done.. Didn't take long.. Now its processing time is down to under an hour which is fine. But now we have about 2 dozen apps that used to be running in the same infrastructure as their databases running on the other side of the country. They are now ALL running like shit.

    The solution was obvious.. Cloud the apps! OK done.. Some of them run on OSs that AWS doesnt support but if we dont tell them and we keep quiet about the licensing we got them all working.. Nice. Now they all run so much better.. But now they are running on the other side of the country than the users.. So now we have to CLOUD THE USERS!! (ie, implement workspaces).

    Turns out that after budgeting for moving a single app and having to move 20+, plus hundreds of databses, plus setting up a whole workspaces infrastructure and then setting up the actual workspaces, quite a lot of them being 3d accelerated workspaces, and then the file storage space for all of those users (because having that local also made everything slow).. The cost of the project and the running cost FAR exceeded estimations and also FAR exceeded just purchasing 2 new vmware hosts and dumping the old VM on to the new hardware (and continuing to pay for rack space that they continued to have to pay for either way anyway).

    Rolled back in 8 months.. So I guess they did 2 months longer than anyone else.

    My point was even with a 'proper' implementation this would have still been a bad choice of things to push to the cloud. The only benefit it offered was potentially paying less for rack space (which in the end it didn't even mange to do because of the stupid contract they had signed 3 years previous) and the costs were stupidly high. The 'correct' solution for this would have been a hardware upgrade and likely nothing more. It would have been significantly cheaper and quicker and they would have ended up with the same result they had. Clouding this app was not the solution.
    The cloud is not going to fix your executives believing sales lies.
    meh

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